🦅🤠 NFC East 🤷‍♂️🆘 | Celebrating the Cowboys' 28 Years of Sadness

[Jroc04]

5 minutes ago, Jlash said:

Can we all agree that Zeke is a moron and move on?

Everyone except Matts who chooses to defend him. 

Like, if Zeke gets exonerated, is he less a scumbag? 

The NFL made a mistake. They went after him for the biggest offense he did but didn't cross all their t's when doing so and left the door open for him to backdoor it. Whether that girl is telling the truth or if Zeke got to her and had her lie to cover it up, which I'm sure she'll get some odd anonymous monetary gift one day, shouldn't make much difference to his character. He's plainly showing a record of continued poor decisions and is detrimental to his team and the league. You can't showcase a player as one of the best in the sport and then during his off time he's grabbing boobs, clubbing and has ties to weed. It's bad business. 

And even with the NFL mistakes and even if they can't prove he beat up this girl, he deserves a suspension. His scumbaggery deserves to be punished. Clearly. 

[MKnight82]

19 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Now Im getting frustrated. So basically you have no working knowledge of anything involved and are just trolling me? You literally just made a point - it was 100% false - and when I told you that, you respond with "And"?

1. I never said he deserves to be  suspended for the other crap. I said I would have been 100% okay with it. The NFL is within its jurisdiction to suspend based on all those events. No, I personally do not think he should miss 1/3 of his pay/work year based on showing a boob or (allegedly) getting in a fight. But I would have understood their stance.

2. The official statement from the NFL is that he is being suspended for: "Actions that happened between July 17, 2016 and July 21, 2016 and separately on March 11, 2017."

A. The events of July are completely bogus, as has been outlined for you numerous times.

B. The incident on March 11th is boobgate. The league found that (paraphrased) "It was disturbing, shows a lack of respect for women and a pattern of poor judgement". But here is the key part - and read this carefully "it will not be considered a separate incident for the basis of additional punishment". <== In layman's terms - we are calling you out for it, but on its own it does not merit its own punishment. We are lumping it in with the rest to prove you can be kinda of a jerk.

3. It further goes on to explain that "that the policy is clear, the first offense for *physical force against a woman* is 6 games." (note it does not say physical force against a woman + bad press + showing a boob+ allegedly getting in a fight). 

 

https://usatcowboyswire.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/ezekiel-elliott-discipline-letter_8-11-17.pdf

 

Please attempt to at least know what your talking about in this if you are going to debate with me... for months... 

I know what I'm talking about.  And I know what you're arguing.  You are trying to argue that Elliot should get out of his suspension due to a technicality of the language used when he was told why he was being suspended.  You want him to get out of this, despite acknowledging you'd understand why he'd be suspended for his behavior, because he plays for your favorite team and can help them win football games.  

But here's why your argument doesn't even matter:

https://scarincihollenbeck.com/law-firm-insights/entertainment-and-sports/in-the-nfl-no-dice-on-double-jeopardy/ 

However, something NFL players should know is that in the league a player can be punished twice for the same offense. Whether that second punishment will hold up is a different story, but, nonetheless, there’s nothing stopping Goodell from handing down yet another punishment to Brady, according to Sports Illustrated, except maybe another public relations hit and continued, costly litigation.

Berman’s ruling applies only to Goodell’s decision to uphold Brady’s four-game suspension, SI explained. While that punishment has now been lifted, that doesn’t mean another doesn’t lie in wait for the quarterback. This is similar to how the commissioner twice suspended Ray Rice, first after initial domestic violence allegations came to light, then again, following the release of a video which clearly showed the extent of the harm the former Baltimore Ravens running back caused his then-fiancee. Though the second suspension was later overturned by a judge, that ruling was not handed down because the commissioner cannot punish a player twice in reaction to the same offense. It was voided because the second suspension handed down to Rice was done so in an “arbitrary manner.”

The fact remains, Goodell can punish a player twice the for the same offense.

So even if Elliot somehow pulls off the upset and wins his appeal (very very doubtful), Goodell can just turn around and suspend him again for all of the offenses.  So any argument against the language used in the suspension is a futile attempt to merely postpone the suspension until it will ultimately will be enforced at a later date.

Edited October 20, 2017 by MKnight82

[Jroc04]

3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

1. I meant no line was crossed between he and her. It wasnt harassment or sexual abuse. From a legal and moral stand point, two adults were being drunk and flirtatious. But neither party was victim to any offense. If she had not been consenting, than he would have crossed the line both legally and morally. 

2. I understand your point. I really do. I get that he reflected poorly on himself. I agree that he needs to hold himself to a higher standard now as a professional instead of a fratboy. As I stated, the league would be in its jurisdiction to punish him - as would the Cowboys. And hopefully they did. Garrett is pretty good about internal punishment, though he refuses to talk about it publicly. 

Just like weed is legal but the NFL will suspend you for it, so is boobgate. They could have suspended him for that incident. And we wouldnt be talking. But the NFL said that it does not merit its own punishment (it wasnt a big deal). So we are back again to the fact that he is suspended for domestic violence that he did not commit.

----------------------------------------------------

 

As for the rest of your comment, both you and MK are twisting my stance because I am a Cowboys fan. I actually think the suspension will be good for him. I am arguing this from a legal perspective only. Legally he should not be suspended for abuse. Legally nothing was wrong with showing boobs at a party. 

That's all good. We're pretty much on the same page. 

But "conduct detrimental to the team" doesn't have to be illegal. TO doing push-ups or fighting Hugh Douglas wasn't exactly illegal but it's detriment to the team and how it reflects on the league is consequential. And it would be up to the league to administer the punishment if it feels necessary. It's like my neighbor dropping the charges against me for punching them but the state chooses to go after me criminally.  And if you think they aren't lumping, or trying to, that other stuff into the judgment, then your naive. 

But I agree. They should fight this tooth and nail if the facts don't back the accusations. It's America after all. But he's been a bad egg, there's no denying that. He has a responsibility to be a better person. For the league and for mankind. 

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, Jroc04 said:

Everyone except Matts who chooses to defend him. 

Like, if Zeke gets exonerated, is he less a scumbag? 

The NFL made a mistake. They went after him for the biggest offense he did but didn't cross all their t's when doing so and left the door open for him to backdoor it. Whether that girl is telling the truth or if Zeke got to her and had her lie to cover it up, which I'm sure she'll get some odd anonymous monetary gift one day, shouldn't make much difference to his character. He's plainly showing a record of continued poor decisions and is detrimental to his team and the league. You can't showcase a player as one of the best in the sport and then during his off time he's grabbing boobs, clubbing and has ties to weed. It's bad business. 

And even with the NFL mistakes and even if they can't prove he beat up this girl, he deserves a suspension. His scumbaggery deserves to be punished. Clearly. 

haha, what? 

I was literally liked his comment first thing. What are you talking about? Zeke is a dumba** and needs to get his crap together. Ive been saying that for months.

 

Is he less of a scumbag if he gets exonerated? - I dunno. How big of a scumbag is he right now? Showing a boob at a party doesnt make you a scumbag, it makes you immature. Same with driving fast and getting into a fight (allegedly). Beating a woman makes you a scumbag - but he didnt do that. He also convinced the girl to get an abortion. Thats probably the single most vile thing he has done that I am aware of. That is scumbagish - but its also very immature. Theres a reason why its mostly young people getting abortions, you tend to grow up and become more wise. So thats really the only significant black mark from my perspective. Im not sure if thats enough to merit the term scumbag though. To me, a scumbag is like a real criminal. The type that hurts society. Not a dude who convinced a clearly insane woman to not have kids. 

As for your comment that the girl lied to cover up - WTF? Do you even know anything about the case? She is still actively trying to convince people he beat her. Like I feel like you 100% dont know ish about this case. THEY FOUND OUT SHE WAS LYING BECAUSE SHE WAS TEXTING PEOPLE ASKING THEM TO LIE AND SAY ZEKE HIT HER. 

Are you trolling me right now? 

[Matts4313]

6 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

So even if Elliot somehow pulls off the upset and wins his appeal (very very doubtful), Goodell can just turn around and suspend him again for all of the offenses

?

Great. Then hopefully he gives him a fair punishment based on the stupid things Zeke has actually done. What would that look like? Here are the offenses:

1.Walked into a weed shop - thats not punishable. Thats not even a thing, really. And the league already ignored it. 

2. Drove recklessly - The league already ignored this one too - so lets assume they dont care.

3. Allegedly fought someone. From my understanding there is no proof of this and the police dropped his name from the list of interested people by the next morning.

4. Showed boob. The league already specifically admitted that this did not merit its own punishment.

5. Bad press - having a crazy person accuse you of something that you did not do seems hard to punish Zeke for.

 

But add them all up: How many games would a player get suspended for with that? 2? Fine, suspend him 2 games and force him into counseling. Hell, suspend him for 4 games and force the Dez rules on him for all I care. 

 

But dont suspend him for hitting a chick if he didnt do it. 

 

[MKnight82]

Just now, Matts4313 said:

?

Great. Then hopefully he gives him a fair punishment based on the stupid things Zeke has actually done. What would that look like? Here are the offenses:

1.Walked into a weed shop - thats not punishable. Thats not even a thing, really. And the league already ignored it. 

2. Drove recklessly - The league already ignored this one too - so lets assume they dont care.

3. Allegedly fought someone. From my understanding there is no proof of this and the police dropped his name from the list of interested people by the next morning.

4. Showed boob. The league already specifically admitted that this did not merit its own punishment.

5. Bad press - having a crazy person accuse you of something that you did not do seems hard to punish Zeke for.

 

But add them all up: How many games would a player get suspended for with that? 2? Fine, suspend him 2 games and force him into counseling. Hell, suspend him for 4 games and force the Dez rules on him for all I care. 

 

But dont suspend him for hitting a chick if he didnt do it. 

 

He's going to suspend him 6 for being annoying and dragging this out.

[Broadway Joe]

He is very much a scumbag I agree with that.

While I think the girl’s honesty is in doubtful, it is difficult for me to side with a scumbag for being accused of something he didn’t do, but still being very much a scumbag or immature whatever you wanna call it, for other things he does and is not being accused of. 

Suspend him for Domestic Violence or for all the things he did in the offseason. It’s the wording that is the difference but the result is the same.

[Jroc04]

3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

haha, what? 

I was literally liked his comment first thing. What are you talking about? Zeke is a dumba** and needs to get his crap together. Ive been saying that for months.

 

Is he less of a scumbag if he gets exonerated? - I dunno. How big of a scumbag is he right now? Showing a boob at a party doesnt make you a scumbag, it makes you immature. Same with driving fast and getting into a fight (allegedly). Beating a woman makes you a scumbag - but he didnt do that. He also convinced the girl to get an abortion. Thats probably the single most vile thing he has done that I am aware of. That is scumbagish - but its also very immature. Theres a reason why its mostly young people getting abortions, you tend to grow up and become more wise. So thats really the only significant black mark from my perspective. Im not sure if thats enough to merit the term scumbag though. To me, a scumbag is like a real criminal. The type that hurts society. Not a dude who convinced a clearly insane woman to not have kids. 

As for your comment that the girl lied to cover up - WTF? Do you even know anything about the case? She is still actively trying to convince people he beat her. Like I feel like you 100% dont know ish about this case. THEY FOUND OUT SHE WAS LYING BECAUSE SHE WAS TEXTING PEOPLE ASKING THEM TO LIE AND SAY ZEKE HIT HER. 

Are you trolling me right now? 

You hypothetically asked if he's a scumbag then listed scumbag things he's done. At the very least, he has scumbag tendencies. And when you have no other evidence of past behavior except scumbaggery then one can conclude that the scumbaggedness will continue. You can pacify his actions if you like by calling him "immature" but sometimes a spade is a spade. And the only way to quell behaviors like this is to step in and slap his wrist before it worsens. The league is in its right to do so. The only difference between what you think a scumbag is and Zeke in this case, is that Zeke plays for the Cowboys. If he was your garbageman neighbor, you'd consider him a bag of scum. 

Theres been plenty of evidence against him. He wouldn't be in this situation if not. If everything was so cut and dry, his lawyers would make this an open and shut case. I was just making supposedes though. I've already been clear saying the league made a mistake going after him for this. But there's no clarity yet. And to assume you know before anyone else does just shows your biased in the situation. It's too close to the vest, matts. Back away. 

[Matts4313]

2 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

If he was your garbageman neighbor, you'd consider him a bag of scum. 

No I wouldnt. I bet literally every single one of you have done some/all of the things he has done save for the abortion:

1. Sped - check, ive done it

2. Fight - I have been in 1 fight in my life (highschool), but have broken up plenty. And this is allegedly anyways as its never been proven he even got in a fight.  It was like a second hand story from a bar.

3. Shown boob/flashed/did something public with your privates: Yup, ive gone skinny dipping. And I have been to parties where chicks exposed themselves.

4. Walked into a weed shop. Nope, I dont smoke and its not legal in TX. But I have been around it before, does that count?

5. Alleged to have done something I didnt. Yup, I had a chick get piss drunk in college and make out with me. I was sober and had no clue who she was. Afterwards her boyfriend found out. She accused me of hitting on her. Luckily my roommate was there and saw the whole thing, I was literally sitting on the couch with the bro's when she jumped in my lap and started kissing on me. 

 

Am I a scumbag? Have you done these things? Are you a scumbag? Literally the only crappy thing he has done is the abortion thing. My neighbor had an abortion when she was 19 - shes now the biggest Christian I know with 3 beautiful kids. Is she a scumbag? 

[MKnight82]

1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

3. Shown boob/flashed/did something public with your privates: Yup, ive gone skinny dipping. And I have been to parties where chicks exposed themselves.

 

He exposed someone else though, not himself.

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, MKnight82 said:

He exposed someone else though, not himself.

To be fair, ive done that part too. To both men and woman. Have pantsied many a bro. We also had 4 neighbors in college.  Pulling a top off in the jacuzzi was not unheard of. It was all in good fun. 

[MKnight82]

3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

To be fair, ive done that part too. To both men and woman. Have pantsied many a bro. We also had 4 neighbors in college.  Pulling a top off in the jacuzzi was not unheard of. It was all in good fun. 

Elliot isn't in college.  He's a highly scrutinized employee making millions of dollars for a multi-billion corporation.  Scumbag or idiot.  Call him whatever you want.  He needs to correct his behavior.  

[Jroc04]

4 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

No I wouldnt. I bet literally every single one of you have done some/all of the things he has done save for the abortion:

1. Sped - check, ive done it

2. Fight - I have been in 1 fight in my life (highschool), but have broken up plenty. And this is allegedly anyways as its never been proven he even got in a fight.  It was like a second hand story from a bar.

3. Shown boob/flashed/did something public with your privates: Yup, ive gone skinny dipping. And I have been to parties where chicks exposed themselves.

4. Walked into a weed shop. Nope, I dont smoke and its not legal in TX. But I have been around it before, does that count?

5. Alleged to have done something I didnt. Yup, I had a chick get piss drunk in college and make out with me. I was sober and had no clue who she was. Afterwards her boyfriend found out. She accused me of hitting on her. Luckily my roommate was there and saw the whole thing, I was literally sitting on the couch with the bro's when she jumped in my lap and started kissing on me. 

 

Am I a scumbag? Have you done these things? Are you a scumbag? Literally the only crappy thing he has done is the abortion thing. My neighbor had an abortion when she was 19 - shes now the biggest Christian I know with 3 beautiful kids. Is she a scumbag? 

Let's just throw away the abortion right? 

Yes, there are times I consider myself to be a scumbag for things I've done. I've made bad decisions. Got into fights, done drugs, neglected responsibilities for my own personal gain or pleasure, took advantage of situations, etc.  Am I scumbag? No. But I've dabbled in doing things that scumbags do. But I'm also honest with myself and have held myself accountable. Something Zeke hasn't, providing more evidence of being a scumbag. You're only as good as your record. And let's not forget, I and you have had years to suggest we aren't scumbags. All this in how many years for Zeke? 2? 3? He's like on a 3 times a year scumbag rate. 

Your indiscretions listed are elementary level debauchery compared to Zeke's accusations bro. Let's get real. Skinny dipping compared to pulling a girl's shirt down? Making out with someones girl drunk compared to beating on one? And it's also one thing to do dumb stuff to yourself (skinny dipping) compared to infringing on others (violating a girl). It's not even remotely the same and you know it. It's desperate for you to compare. 

Was it scumabby for your neighbor to get an abortion? Maybe. Depending on your stance on women's and human rights and all that. I personally don't think so. But would it make you a scumbag to make or even push a girl to have an unwanted abortion. Abso-effin-lutely bro. The examples your trying to tie together are not even close. Zeke didn't get an abortion. He made a girl have one. Was it because he thought he was too young to be a father or thought raising a child in an environment not conducive for a productive upbringing would be harmful to said child? Possible. But it's more likely he, at the very least suggested the abortion, because he didn't want to be tied to this chick for 18 years and have a kid that he didn't want and cost him a lot of money in the meantime. Zeke doesn't exude the positive behavior to make me think otherwise. It's his MO at this stage of his life. 

Could he turn everything around and be a devote Christian like your neighbor? (Like that means anything, anyway. I know several "Christians" that go to church every Sunday and are terrible people) He certainly could. But you have to at least start your journey. I'm not just going to assume he'll better his ship. I need proof. I got plenty proof he won't as of yet. 

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

Well if reading through the last couple pages has taught me anything, it is that it's useless to discuss any Cowboy related issues with Matts. Dude literally can't see why it is morally and ethically improper to expose a woman's chest to the public as a star football player. Who cares what kind of example he is setting for young children/teens out there right? Who cares if that image reflects poorly on the NFL/Cowboys.  

[Jroc04]

Stop justifying things man. It's not becoming. "All in good fun". Can't everything be said in that light?  It's not up to you to consider other people's "good fun". Like I said before. Just because Zeke employs himself in dispicable acts with others that happen to consider it "good fun" as well, doesn't make it not apprehensible. 

Especially, when you represent a button down, billion dollar corporation. If not to me or you or anyone else, but only to the league, he's associated himself as having detrimental behavior. That's all that matters.