BroncoBruin Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 hour ago, champ11 said: Yeah, he has a stronger arm. I'm not convinced he actually hits on those throws - but I can buy that defenses will respect him more than Case. I think Flacco's mobility is a real weakness compared to Case, so hopefully the OL continues their solid play that they showed for part of the season. I'm not even sure Case was more mobile as much of a statue as Joe is. Case hardly made any plays with his legs last year, and was a constant disaster when he had to extend the play. Honestly that was the most disappointing thing about him to me. After two years of Siemian drifting into pressure, I thought Case's ability to move around and extend plays (something he did with the Vikings) would at least help the offense a little bit. Couldn't have been more wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 hour ago, champ11 said: Yeah, he has a stronger arm. I'm not convinced he actually hits on those throws - but I can buy that defenses will respect him more than Case. I think Flacco's mobility is a real weakness compared to Case, so hopefully the OL continues their solid play that they showed for part of the season. He only needs to connect on 1 out of 5 deep balls, 20%, to change a game. I read a metric somewhere that he's over 30% on deep balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 3 hours ago, BroncoSojia said: Yeah people say this, but his rank in YPA (a stat that correlates with how well you stretch the field as a QB) is dead last in the league over the past 4 years. Thats not true. YPA is a product of completion % and YPC. The stat you're looking for there is yards per completion. Joe has, up until the last 4 years, been right near the top in that category with around a 60% completion rate. You're right that his last 4 years, since Kubiak left and Trestman, then Mornhinweg, he's dropped in YPC and YPA but his completion rate has gone up. I'd say that has more to do with the OC's and playcalling than anything Joe was doing. Kinda putting a guy that loves the long ball into a dink and dunk offense. It should be fun to see what Scango... does with him. Our new OC likes to stretch the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoSojia Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, AKRNA said: Thats not true. YPA is a product of completion % and YPC. The stat you're looking for there is yards per completion. Joe has, up until the last 4 years, been right near the top in that category with around a 60% completion rate. You're right that his last 4 years, since Kubiak left and Trestman, then Mornhinweg, he's dropped in YPC and YPA but his completion rate has gone up. I'd say that has more to do with the OC's and playcalling than anything Joe was doing. Kinda putting a guy that loves the long ball into a dink and dunk offense. It should be fun to see what Scango... does with him. Our new OC likes to stretch the field. Using the stat you're talking about (YPC), Flacco ranked 34th, 28th, 32th, and 29th respectively over the past four years. You can't just explain away his putrid stats by placing most of the blame on his OCs and playcalling. By every statistic and advanced metric, Flacco has been a horrible QB over the past 4 years. You guys can talk yourselves into him if you want. Good luck with that. Edit: he's older and has had a lot of injury issues since 4 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 So serious question. Would anyone have rather they given up that pick for Nick Mullens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 hour ago, BroncoSojia said: By every statistic and advanced metric, Flacco has been a horrible QB over the past 4 years. You guys can talk yourselves into him if you want. Good luck with that. Flacco was 17th in DYAR, 16th in DVOA, and 18th in Total QBR last season. None of those metric rankings are 'horrible', and they have an egregious false INT built into them. I don't know why you're trying to paint a worse picture for your team, but to each his own. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr 9 hours ago, BroncoSojia said: You mean the post that was riddled with excuses for why Flacco was so awful for the past 3 years? Other fans can buy that if they want to. If you don't think significant injuries, bad play calling, and a limited/lacking supporting cast can affect a QB's ability to produce, then you have no business analyzing the position. And you shouldn't have the expectation that people will take you seriously. ----- Good luck guys. I can't say that I'm unhappy, now unplugged from the 'Flacco Matrix'. When you have an established QB beyond the "developmental" stage, yet not in "Elite" territory - the bad takes can be draining. All of the criticism tends to boil down to entitled or ignorant whining translating roughly to "But he'ss not Aaron Rodgerz". Working under the assumption that truly Elite QBs are easily obtainable, no one should have anything less, and essentially denying the reality that they're one of the most rare commodities in all of sports. With Flacco it's heightened even more because detractors can't say "We can't win a Super Bowl with him", his playoff prowess forces some other wackiness out of them. Joe isn't and has never been a phenom at the position. He's a good QB with an elite arm. Capable of elevating his game and generating elite "streaks" of play during opportune times. Like any QB, his ceiling and floor are subject to change depending on the talent of the coaches & players around him. He isn't the iron man player he was in his 20s and injuries have unfortunately become an all too frequent reality for him. That should really be your only concern as Bronco fans. Keep him healthy and you'll win games. At worst, you've acquired an upgrade to Keenum and a proven positive presence for a club developing a young QB(as we did with Lamar). Best case, you bring Joe's 2010 & on playoff stat line into the postseason- 196 Completions 327 Attempts 2,563 Yards 24 Touchdowns 4 Interceptions 104.6 Passer Rating and wake the elite dragon once more. Ken McKusick is an analyst & writer that has charted every Raven's play since the franchise's birth. He functions essentially as the Raven's personal PFF, grading and tracking every player in every game. He put together a list of Joe's Top 21 all time winning performances as a tribute to our club's only ever Franchise QB. Two of those included performances, came from last season. Joe still has a ton of ability and I think you have a lot to look forward to. https://russellstreetreport.com/2019/02/14/filmstudy/the-top-21-games-of-joe-flacco/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Counselor said: So serious question. Would anyone have rather they given up that pick for Nick Mullens? Heck no I don't even believe in jimmy g fully why would I want his backup. Mullens last year faced soft defenses when he did well or did it in garbage time. I think he's a decent backup nothing more. The only reason why this team would get mullens is if they were committed to a rebuild which they're not so its a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 The reason why this trade is up in the air right now is because of the Keenum signing that preceded it last year, and some other bad signings and contracts. In order for this trade to be a homerun elway is gonna have to work his magic in free agency. He needs to have 2 or 3 impact signings in the stewart, sanders mold. He also needs to have a draft similar to 2018 with the impact the rookies in place and if he doesn't get a franchise qb to groom this year he has to have a plan in place to get one. Trade down for 2020 assets while getting a bpa player this year would be nice. Or hopefully a qb he believes in falls or is within striking distance. If he does those things while keeping the short term goals and long term outlook in place I feel like this trade will grow on people including me. Because right now I'm iffy on it. Still feel like a motivated flacco with an offensive scheme he had his career year in is definitely appealing. But with the roster as is right now it's gonna be tough to compete. And if you do compete it's taking away draft position in 2020 in order to get a qb if you fail to grab one this year. I wanna see a well thought out approach by elway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 9 hours ago, Counselor said: So serious question. Would anyone have rather they given up that pick for Nick Mullens? Plus say whatever you want about Joe as the player. Being an 11 year veteran is huge to have for whatever young qb we bring in. Joe knows how to prepare, he knows how to lead, he's well respected. I think in Elways mind Trevor Siemian under Peyton learned a lot through osmosis in a year. Brock learned a lot he just isn't a franchise qb it was a misevaluation. I know joe is not Peyton I just think elway likes that model in his qb room. Veteran with young promising young guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Football Perspective@fbgchase Since winning the Super Bowl, the Ravens paid Joe Flacco $124M and be threw 110 touchdown passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, vike daddy said: Football Perspective@fbgchase Since winning the Super Bowl, the Ravens paid Joe Flacco $124M and be threw 110 touchdown passes. Says a fan of the team that signed Cousins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoSojia Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, Counselor said: Says a fan of the team that signed Cousins What does that have to do with anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, BroncoSojia said: What does that have to do with anything? It’s a joke. I’m on the wait and see with Flacco. And Cousins is my BDL QB. So I like to rag about him when I get a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 I'll be the first to say Flacco has underperformed that contract. But a lot of it isn't on him. Ozzie Newsome has been bad drafting offensive talent, like worse than elway bad. Max Williams bust, perriman bust, I mean the only real home grown talent they've had since rice left was Torrey Smith. Like Ozzie knows hes bad at it that's partially why he goes the free agent route. Ben Watson, Mike Wallace, Steve Smith, John Brown, Michael Crabtree, Jeremy Maclin, Anquan Boldin you can go on and on. That's a big reason why he paid Flacco all that money. He thought Flacco would bring stability rather than going draft and picking another kyle boller. Last year His last year as gm Lamar Jackson kept falling. He felt the value was too good and traded up and took the shot at him. It was his last year why not. After last years impact draft and with an infusion of a young innovative oc . I have some confidence they will ve able to identify talent and surround Flacco with more pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 If Foles gets traded to the Jags for at least a 3rd will that change peoples views of the flacco trade who don't like it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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