What is Rosen worth and to who?

[megatechpc]

Just based on everything I've heard regarding the Cards and Rosen, I don't see any way whatsoever that he remains in Arizona.  That relationship is beyond destroyed at this point, the team seems to be all-in on Murray (even publicly, which is just bizarre when you have a top-10 draft pick from last year on the roster), and the damage that is being done to Rosen as a rookie QB already dealing with the pressure of trying to live up to his draft position can't be understated.  To me the only way forward for both Rosen and the Cards is a trade, which won't likely happen until close to the draft.  My gut is telling me that the Giants will end up trading a second rounder for Rosen and that the Cards will back off of their demand for a first once they are sure nobody will give them one.  The NE prospect is interesting, but I don't see Brady allowing any heir apparent to come in there until he is retired (we saw how he responded to a legitimate threat in Jimmy G already).  I think the Rosen situation is the definition of a player that needs a change of scenery and I could envision him doing really well taking over for Eli in NY.

[11sanchez11]

On 3/29/2019 at 11:36 PM, AkronsWitness said:

So Rosen, who was being discussed last year as a top 5 pick in the draft is now after a season with a horrible HC and offense is suddenly not even worth a 2nd round pick to a QB needy team like the Giants or Dolphins.

I know he didnt exactly set the world on fire last year, but I feel like a major part of that was due to his surroundings coupled with rookie growing pains

Well what actually happened was he was the 4th QB drafted last year and maybe the only reason he was in the top half of the 1st was because the Cards moved up to get him. Who knows where he was on teams' BB. 

[m haynes]

On 3/4/2019 at 10:22 PM, patman said:

A three year head start? And  Malcom Butler did not play well in '17 ( and it repeated in 18)  What does letting FA go have to do with spending a first. I  could see a trade for a qb to replace Hoyer but not at the cost of a first for a player to sit for three years.  And no, this year is much worse than last. Trey Flowers,  the LT, 2 of the DTs, and again all three of the WRs Are FA and you think trading a first away instead of getting one for Cooks is similar.  

Like I said, I would trade a 3rd for him. Maybe some team would give more, but that would be with an eye to getting something out of him, not to hold a clipboard. 

BB doesn't give a crap about time, situation or personal. He will do whats best for the team. Sit on bench so what, he has a great preseason and BB trades him and everyone screaming bloody murder.  Whats best for the team.

No one complained when Jimmy was drafted and sat  on the bench basically  his whole Pats career.

[patman]

On 4/2/2019 at 3:33 PM, m haynes said:

BB doesn't give a crap about time, situation or personal. He will do whats best for the team. Sit on bench so what, he has a great preseason and BB trades him and everyone screaming bloody murder.  Whats best for the team.

No one complained when Jimmy was drafted and sat  on the bench basically  his whole Pats career.

no, and I can see sitting a guy taken at the end of the 2nd.  But when Jimmy was taken It was unsure how much longer Tom would play, most thought 3 or 4 years and they would have a cheap backup. Brady was pissed at the league over deflategate and Gissele wanted him to quit.  But we are talking about using a  first on a team that lost three of the 10 most impactful players on the team. 

[m haynes]

33 minutes ago, patman said:

no, and I can see sitting a guy taken at the end of the 2nd.  But when Jimmy was taken It was unsure how much longer Tom would play, most thought 3 or 4 years and they would have a cheap backup. Brady was pissed at the league over deflategate and Gissele wanted him to quit.  But we are talking about using a  first on a team that lost three of the 10 most impactful players on the team. 

You missed my point. BB doesn't give a crap. He will do what he thinks is best. He doesn't care about your or anyone else's value  on a 1st or 2nd RD pick. EX if he thinks Tavon Wilson Jordan Richards, Jermaine Cunningham, are a 2nd rd pick, he is to BB and that all that matters.

[patman]

10 hours ago, m haynes said:

You missed my point. BB doesn't give a crap. He will do what he thinks is best. He doesn't care about your or anyone else's value  on a 1st or 2nd RD pick. EX if he thinks Tavon Wilson Jordan Richards, Jermaine Cunningham, are a 2nd rd pick, he is to BB and that all that matters.

Well no ****.

[ET80]

On 3/30/2019 at 1:36 AM, AkronsWitness said:

So Rosen, who was being discussed last year as a top 5 pick in the draft is now after a season with a horrible HC and offense is suddenly not even worth a 2nd round pick to a QB needy team like the Giants or Dolphins.

I know he didnt exactly set the world on fire last year, but I feel like a major part of that was due to his surroundings coupled with rookie growing pains

Thank you! Nobody is looking at the dumpster fire that Arizona was on offense last year, they're just putting the lack of production on Rosen's shoulders. 

If Rosen was able to get a top 20 offense out of THAT roster and coaching staff, you need to get his bust in Canton ready - that was an expansion level bad roster on offense paired with a ton of stooges on the coaching staff, there was literally nobody that had to be gameplanned for and nobody who could game-plan properly.

- When your best offensive player is a 36 year old Larry Fitzgerald, you have significant issues with skill position players.

- When you're entire OL ends up on the IR, you're not going to move the ball in any significant way.

- When you're putting in a rookie QB well before your original plan, you're going to have major issues with playcalling and execution, no matter how "pro ready" a QB is.

- When your OC is stuck in 1996 and you fire him mid-season and turn to a QB coach who has zero OC experience, your preparation leading up to games is going to be lacking.

One of these things would sink an offense - but ALL FOUR of these things happened to the Cardinals (and then you had David Johnson missing time ever single game and Steve Wilks unable to coach his way out of a paper bag). How is any of this on Rosen's shoulders, how is he the problem? (This is an actual question, I don't have a logical answer. I honestly don't think there is one that is logical). Why do people think that it'll all magically change with a failed HC who was fired from his alma mater at Texas Tech, a QB with one years' worth of his experience in a spread offense and about 13 players cut from Atlanta?

If this isn't an absolute failure, then I will be absolutely shocked. If the Cardinals go with Bosa or Williams, I might have faith for the future. 

[m haynes]

9 hours ago, patman said:

Well no ****.

Ok sport. 

[AkronsWitness]

15 hours ago, ET80 said:

Thank you! Nobody is looking at the dumpster fire that Arizona was on offense last year, they're just putting the lack of production on Rosen's shoulders. 

If Rosen was able to get a top 20 offense out of THAT roster and coaching staff, you need to get his bust in Canton ready - that was an expansion level bad roster on offense paired with a ton of stooges on the coaching staff, there was literally nobody that had to be gameplanned for and nobody who could game-plan properly.

- When your best offensive player is a 36 year old Larry Fitzgerald, you have significant issues with skill position players.

- When you're entire OL ends up on the IR, you're not going to move the ball in any significant way.

- When you're putting in a rookie QB well before your original plan, you're going to have major issues with playcalling and execution, no matter how "pro ready" a QB is.

- When your OC is stuck in 1996 and you fire him mid-season and turn to a QB coach who has zero OC experience, your preparation leading up to games is going to be lacking.

One of these things would sink an offense - but ALL FOUR of these things happened to the Cardinals (and then you had David Johnson missing time ever single game and Steve Wilks unable to coach his way out of a paper bag). How is any of this on Rosen's shoulders, how is he the problem? (This is an actual question, I don't have a logical answer. I honestly don't think there is one that is logical). Why do people think that it'll all magically change with a failed HC who was fired from his alma mater at Texas Tech, a QB with one years' worth of his experience in a spread offense and about 13 players cut from Atlanta?

If this isn't an absolute failure, then I will be absolutely shocked. If the Cardinals go with Bosa or Williams, I might have faith for the future and hired a low level DC to coach their top 10 offensive franchise QB for the foreseeable future

We are talking about the same Cardinals team that forgot David Johnson was good at football for an entire calendar year

[footbull3196]

19 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

We are talking about the same Cardinals team that forgot David Johnson was good at football for an entire calendar year

Well let’s not place all the blame on the Cardinals.  Sure Johnson was misused but he also has done almost nothing in the league aside from his lone breakout season in 2016

[ClutchDJ]

I like Rosen, but let’s not act like Rosen wasn’t out there overthrowing badly even with the rare clean pockets & open WRs he had.

[ET80]

6 hours ago, ClutchDJ said:

I like Rosen, but let’s not act like Rosen wasn’t out there overthrowing badly even with the rare clean pockets & open WRs he had.

He's a rookie - a rookie with no OL, no run game, no real WRs who would get open frequently and no coaching staff to reign him in.

What were you expecting? Rookies in optimal situations look that bad at times and work their way out of it. Yet in this situation, you're already calling a time of death on the guy, which is absolutely insane. 

One thing I'm willing to bank on - Rosen is a "chip on his shoulder" type of guy, so this is going to fuel him for the remainder of his career. I think you're going to get a ruthless assassin out there in a few years, a guy who is going to carve up every single defense he faces one day.

[Forge]

On 4/4/2019 at 5:16 AM, ET80 said:

Thank you! Nobody is looking at the dumpster fire that Arizona was on offense last year, they're just putting the lack of production on Rosen's shoulders. 

If Rosen was able to get a top 20 offense out of THAT roster and coaching staff, you need to get his bust in Canton ready - that was an expansion level bad roster on offense paired with a ton of stooges on the coaching staff, there was literally nobody that had to be gameplanned for and nobody who could game-plan properly.

- When your best offensive player is a 36 year old Larry Fitzgerald, you have significant issues with skill position players.

- When you're entire OL ends up on the IR, you're not going to move the ball in any significant way.

- When you're putting in a rookie QB well before your original plan, you're going to have major issues with playcalling and execution, no matter how "pro ready" a QB is.

- When your OC is stuck in 1996 and you fire him mid-season and turn to a QB coach who has zero OC experience, your preparation leading up to games is going to be lacking.

One of these things would sink an offense - but ALL FOUR of these things happened to the Cardinals (and then you had David Johnson missing time ever single game and Steve Wilks unable to coach his way out of a paper bag). How is any of this on Rosen's shoulders, how is he the problem? (This is an actual question, I don't have a logical answer. I honestly don't think there is one that is logical). Why do people think that it'll all magically change with a failed HC who was fired from his alma mater at Texas Tech, a QB with one years' worth of his experience in a spread offense and about 13 players cut from Atlanta?

If this isn't an absolute failure, then I will be absolutely shocked. If the Cardinals go with Bosa or Williams, I might have faith for the future. 

I think you have to just throw last year out with regards to Rosen. If you were a fan as a prospect, you should still be a fan. If you weren't a fan, then obviously last year won't help sway you. Historically, that offense was worse than the 49ers in Smith's rookie year, and that is saying something (at least by DVOA they were). Though very comparable (49ers were -40.4%, Cards were -40.9%). You really can't get any idea on how good / bad rosen is based on last year. It's just unfair. Smith turned into a very solid NFL quarterback for about 6 years, and may have been a good one sooner had the 49ers not been a dumpster fire for the first 7 years of his career. If you think that Rosen has the mental fortitude to make it through the other side of seasons like that, there's no reason to think that he can't  develop into a good quarterback. 

[m haynes]

20 hours ago, Forge said:

I think you have to just throw last year out with regards to Rosen. If you were a fan as a prospect, you should still be a fan. If you weren't a fan, then obviously last year won't help sway you. Historically, that offense was worse than the 49ers in Smith's rookie year, and that is saying something (at least by DVOA they were). Though very comparable (49ers were -40.4%, Cards were -40.9%). You really can't get any idea on how good / bad rosen is based on last year. It's just unfair. Smith turned into a very solid NFL quarterback for about 6 years, and may have been a good one sooner had the 49ers not been a dumpster fire for the first 7 years of his career. If you think that Rosen has the mental fortitude to make it through the other side of seasons like that, there's no reason to think that he can't  develop into a good quarterback. 

IMO Rosen  would be a top choice, most likely number one QB if he was coming out this season.

PS  Murrey would still go number one because he the perfect fit for the Cards new head coach. Almost all the other teams would take the more conventional QB Rosen.  Haskins would be 3rd do to lack of experience compared to Rosen.

I'm pretty confident Rosen would work out just fine with the Pats. Many have the Pats taken a QB high in the draft. I would give up a 1st for Rosen rather than drafting   someone like Grier or Jones with a second round pick.

 IMO  BB at 32 give him a better choice for need, but value at 32 and the early 2nd round players (value) are about the same. That why he trades his 1st so many times in the past.

[aceinthehouse]

Keim is reporting that a 1st is too much, but a 3rd is not enough according to what he has heard at the owners meeting.

He believes the Skins are the best fit for Rosen.

He believes it will cost a 2nd & a mid Rd pick. But not to count out a 3rd, future 4th & a player.

Things are heating up! Cardinals OTA's are Monday.