Browns release Joe Haden, signed by Steelers 3/$27m

[CKSteeler]

The Browns wanted to keep Haden at $7 million a year. And Belichick himself has gone in the exact opposite direction than what you imply multiple times to sign aging vets cut by other teams who thought they were done. Whether it was Rodney Harrison, Randy Moss, or more recently when he beefed up his secondary with two more high priced veteran CB's nearing the end of their careers.

Haden is 28. That the Browns still wanted to keep him, but at a reduced price, indicates that they weren't as certain as you are that he's done.

[AkronsWitness]

14 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

The Browns wanted to keep Haden at $7 million a year. And Belichick himself has gone in the exact opposite direction than what you imply multiple times to sign aging vets cut by other teams who thought they were done. Whether it was Rodney Harrison, Randy Moss, or more recently when he beefed up his secondary with two more high priced veteran CB's nearing the end of their careers.

Haden is 28. That the Browns still wanted to keep him, but at a reduced price, indicates that they weren't as certain as you are that he's done.

They were still willing to pay him for his intangibles. Leadership, veteran on a very young team has its value. I dont know how much that applies to the Steelers needs. Every beat writer and analyst for the Browns were saying that through training camp and preseason he looks like the 3rd best CB on the team behind Jamar Taylor and Jason McCourty, yet he was lining up against #1s in man coverage all preseason and getting smoked.

His real place was to be a rotational nickle DB and thats why they asked for the paycut--but he still sees himself as a outside elite cover corner so he walked.

Maybe a fresh start is what he needs to get his play back together, but as from what I saw from him, he is a average #2 corner on a decent team anymore. Still love him as a person though for everything he has done for the Browns over the years.

[CKSteeler]

Where, exactly, has anyone from the Browns actually stated that? They obviously wouldn't, but that is your opinion of his play and why they wanted to keep him. Then we can look at how, frankly, more stable franchises valued him when he was cut, as well. It outright contradicts what Hue Jackson stated publicly.

What you have suggested isn't implausible, but you are pushing your opinion of the situation as fact when it is anything but.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

22 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

The Browns wanted to keep Haden at $7 million a year. And Belichick himself has gone in the exact opposite direction than what you imply multiple times to sign aging vets cut by other teams who thought they were done. Whether it was Rodney Harrison, Randy Moss, or more recently when he beefed up his secondary with two more high priced veteran CB's nearing the end of their careers.

Haden is 28. That the Browns still wanted to keep him, but at a reduced price, indicates that they weren't as certain as you are that he's done.

So the Browns weren't sure if he's done but cut him just in case he is to save money they don't need?  That's your take?

lulz

[AkronsWitness]

15 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Where, exactly, has anyone from the Browns actually stated that? They obviously wouldn't, but that is your opinion of his play and why they wanted to keep him. Then we can look at how, frankly, more stable franchises valued him when he was cut, as well. It outright contradicts what Hue Jackson stated publicly.

What you have suggested isn't implausible, but you are pushing your opinion of the situation as fact when it is anything but.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2017/08/28/jim-donovan-i-think-joe-haden-is-the-3rd-best-cornerback-on-this-team/

Jim Donovan is the play by play announcer for the Browns and has been for a very long time since they came back. His opinion is very reputable and he doesnt play sides.

Im pushing my suggestion as somebody who has watched every single snap Joe Haden has ever taken in the NFL and a really big fan of his who owns 2 of his jerseys. 

[CKSteeler]

Browns fans are funny. On one hand, they want to argue that they didn't make the wrong decision on a guy like Prior. They offered him a better deal than he got, he just didn't want to take it. Well, they clearly had the money to spend. So much that they actually took on a ridiculous QB contract. So why not overpay some? It's not like they are going to be cap tight anytime soon.

Why pay Haden $7 million if he's done? Why not just cut him outright? It must be leadership and intangibles. Because lots of guys around the league are paid $7 million for leadership, right?

Then I get a quote of some play by play guy who, as far as I can tell, is giving HIS opinion of Haden and this is passed off as proof of what the Browns brain trust thought about him. Haden may have been the third best CB. Jim Donovan and you may be right. But, unless he says something more definitive in the video than "I think," it's not proof of what the Browns were thinking.

You guys aren't consistent. You put forward a series of rationalizations in some desperate attempt to convince others, perhaps even yourselves, that it's not the same old Browns. Maybe it isn't, but that doesn't make what you're claiming any more rational.

What makes more sense is that the team identified a player who had not performed up to his contract of late and probably wasn't worth it, as teams do all the time. And they talked about trades knowing he had some value, and figured out how other teams would compensate him. They offered him something competitive knowing it was worth it to them if  he didn't rebound this year. That is the simplest answer here and the one that fits the actual facts. But that doesn't paint the Browns as some super savvy player here as it admits they could end up wrong and know it. Of course, even smart teams do this. They set values on players and often refuse to budge or pay them more. And they dump guys who aren't playing up to their contract when they refuse to take a paycut.

[AkronsWitness]

9 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Browns fans are funny. On one hand, they want to argue that they didn't make the wrong decision on a guy like Prior. They offered him a better deal than he got, he just didn't want to take it. Well, they clearly had the money to spend. So much that they actually took on a ridiculous QB contract. So why not overpay some? It's not like they are going to be cap tight anytime soon.

Why pay Haden $7 million if he's done? Why not just cut him outright? It must be leadership and intangibles. Because lots of guys around the league are paid $7 million for leadership, right?

Then I get a quote of some play by play guy who, as far as I can tell, is giving HIS opinion of Haden and this is passed off as proof of what the Browns brain trust thought about him. Haden may have been the third best CB. Jim Donovan and you may be right. But, unless he says something more definitive in the video than "I think," it's not proof of what the Browns were thinking.

You guys aren't consistent. You put forward a series of rationalizations in some desperate attempt to convince others, perhaps even yourselves, that it's not the same old Browns. Maybe it isn't, but that doesn't make what you're claiming any more rational.

What makes more sense is that the team identified a player who had not performed up to his contract of late and probably wasn't worth it, as teams do all the time. And they talked about trades knowing he had some value, and figured out how other teams would compensate him. They offered him something competitive knowing it was worth it to them if  he didn't rebound this year. That is the simplest answer here and the one that fits the actual facts. But that doesn't paint the Browns as some super savvy player here as it admits they could end up wrong and know it. Of course, even smart teams do this. They set values on players and often refuse to budge or pay them more. And they dump guys who aren't playing up to their contract when they refuse to take a paycut.

You need to realize the Browns and Steelers rational for making decisions are completely different. The Browns have been in the mode of cutting bad contracts, hoard draft picks and develop young talent for cheap in a 3 year rebuilding overhaul. They dont value Joe Haden and his contract nearly the same as a team like the Steelers who are in the mode of 'all-in' and compete for championships now.

The Browns view Haden as a roadblock for a young draft pick at this point in his career who they are overpaying for his current on field production. The Steelers view Haden as a veteran player who is capable of coming in and providing more security in their bad secondary while doing playoff pushes. 

Not every situation has to be the same as all teams are in different situations as one another. That doesnt make either team right or wrong.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

4 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Browns fans are funny. On one hand, they want to argue that they didn't make the wrong decision on a guy like Prior. They offered him a better deal than he got, he just didn't want to take it. Well, they clearly had the money to spend. So much that they actually took on a ridiculous QB contract. So why not overpay some? It's not like they are going to be cap tight anytime soon.

Why pay Haden $7 million if he's done? Why not just cut him outright? It must be leadership and intangibles. Because lots of guys around the league are paid $7 million for leadership, right?

Then I get a quote of some play by play guy who, as far as I can tell, is giving HIS opinion of Haden and this is passed off as proof of what the Browns brain trust thought about him. Haden may have been the third best CB. Jim Donovan and you may be right. But, unless he says something more definitive in the video than "I think," it's not proof of what the Browns were thinking.

You guys aren't consistent. You put forward a series of rationalizations in some desperate attempt to convince others, perhaps even yourselves, that it's not the same old Browns. Maybe it isn't, but that doesn't make what you're claiming any more rational.

What makes more sense is that the team identified a player who had not performed up to his contract of late and probably wasn't worth it, as teams do all the time. And they talked about trades knowing he had some value, and figured out how other teams would compensate him. They offered him something competitive knowing it was worth it to them if  he didn't rebound this year. That is the simplest answer here and the one that fits the actual facts. But that doesn't paint the Browns as some super savvy player here as it admits they could end up wrong and know it. Of course, even smart teams do this. They set values on players and often refuse to budge or pay them more. And they dump guys who aren't playing up to their contract when they refuse to take a paycut.

You guys are inconsistent? You do realize we're all different people with different opinions, right?

The bottom line quite clearly IMO is that if they truly wanted him on this team he would be.  They didn't.

Why did they "offer him 7 million"? Because it was an enormous pay cut. They didn't "offer him a deal", they offered him a chance to cut his salary by a third.

If they truly thought he had any chance of being a helpful player moving forward they wouldn't have cut him knowing full well he could sign in the division.

Perhaps, they're wrong, it's definitely a possibility. Of course if the last three seasons are any indication, they aren't.

[AkronsWitness]

3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

You guys are inconsistent? You do realize we're all different people with different opinions, right?

The bottom line quite clearly IMO is that if they truly wanted him on this team he would be.  They didn't.

Why did they "offer him 7 million"? Because it was an enormous pay cut. They didn't "offer him a deal", they offered him a chance to cut his salary by a third.

If they truly thought he had any chance of being a helpful player moving forward they wouldn't have cut him knowing full well he could sign in the division.

Perhaps, they're wrong, it's definitely a possibility. Of course if the last three seasons are any indication, they aren't.

Right, with the new analytical regime, they viewed his current contract a massive negative for the production he was giving. They offered him to take a paycut to something that represents his play on the field which is that of a #2 or nickle DB. He didnt want that--so he walked.

They also have a bunch of young talent waiting to get playing time like Boody-Calhoun who can provide the similar on field results for 10+ million cheaper. Analytics and a rebuilding process around young talent say to move on from Joe Haden. 

I dont like it cause he is a fan favorite and I love the guy--but the move makes sense for the Browns. They have released in the past 2 years every other veteran player who was making too much money from previous regimes whose play on the field didnt match their salary. This instance is no exception. As much as it sucks cause its Joe Haden, not Paul Kruger.

[CKSteeler]

NFL's own investigator recommended no suspension:

Quote

NFL investigator Kia Roberts recommended no suspension for Ezekiel Elliott, according to Clarence Hill of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. Roberts testified to that during an appeal hearing that lasted 25 hours over three days this week.

Cowboys owner Jerry Jones’ repeated declaration that the league would not suspend Elliott was based on his knowledge of Roberts’ recommendation backed by assurance from a top NFL executive of no suspension, per Hill. Jones reportedly was “furious” when the league announced the six-game suspension for violating the personal conduct policy.

 

Hill also reports Roberts’ recommendation — following her interviews with Elliott’s ex-girlfriend — never made it into the NFL’s final report or the official Aug. 11 suspension letter. The league cited findings of three instances of domestic violence by Elliott against Tiffany Thompson based on the victim’s testimony and photographic evidence.

In addition, Roberts did not attend the meeting with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell to discuss discipline for Elliott, per Hill, as she was barred from it by Lisa Friel, the senior vice president for investigations.

Hill’s source indicated that if arbiter Harold Henderson returns a ruling unacceptable to Elliott, the case will head to federal court. ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported earlier Thursday that Henderson is under pressure to make a decision by Monday, with a reduction likely.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/31/report-nfl-lead-investigator-recommended-no-suspension-for-ezekiel-elliott/

With this sort of report and the unusual length of the suspension, how do people defend the notion that the league office wasn't looking for another high profile chance to prove who is in charge?

[Bonanza23]

Bahahah @CKSteeler nice one!

[Rod Johnson]

On 8/30/2017 at 9:34 PM, steelcurtain29 said:

He's not at the elite level he once was, but he's still a good corner, and a massive upgrade for the Steelers. Perhaps in the long run he transitions to FS short term if Sutton can make a quick impact. Who knows.

All I know is this is NOT something the Steelers normally do. This is totally out of character for the organization to make this kind of move. They must really see something in him that we (as fans) don't.

They see their franchise QB wants to retire within the next couple of seasons and their window closing.  It's a good signing imo, Haden was bad at what the Browns asked/needed him to do.  He'll be better when he's not asked to run with top receivers with no/bad safety help.  He wasn't worth what the Browns were paying him and won't be useful when their window opens.  Makes sense by all parties.

[matt27j]

If CLE was willing to pay him $7 mil, and other teams were willing to pay more than the Steelers, clearly he has some abilities and potential. He's a great tackler, makes good plays on ball, and can play the ball down the field. Just has to be healthy and confident. Without Joe penciled in because of his pay, now someone like BBC can make a name for himself. The guys fighting for the 4th/5th maybe 6th roster spot also have the same chance to get some playing time and hopefully find some job security maybe even overtake Jason M. halfway through the season. Howard Wilson will be coming back at some point as well. 

This release is more about competition than it is Joe Haden. They've released a ton of overpaid guys, and Brock will probably be next. It has brought out the best competition in all the young guys. With it's Hogan vs Kessler at QB(and what if Kizer really struggles?), Dayes at RB(could supplant Duke?), WR's Hall, Bailey, Leslie, Mullaney(Louis penciled in as 3 but unproven) making great plays trying to take the spots of 4th rounders like Higgins/Payton, Devalve/Telfer trying to hold off Njoku, Orchard/Holmes/Nassib at DE, Meder/Coley/Ogunjobi/Brantley/Thompson all making cases for PT, the backup LB's Burgess, Olugbode, Bello, Alexander flying around hustling knowing only 3 will make it, then at S the rook Nacua has continued to progress and will continue to push Kindred to do the same. Pryor probably makes it over Campbell. 

A lot of crowded battles there where releasing someone like Joe who is not in your long term plans is important because you can keep that extra guy at WR/CB who can develop into your #3 or someone at DL/LB who may develop into a key rotational player. With the way Gregg wants his guys fresh he may very well rotate between 9-10 DL a game. Heck in an exotic package Pryor, Nacua, or a 4th LB may see the field. It's why they maybe also only keep 2 QB's, and IMO that's why Hogan willed his way to a win in the rain in Tampa and then performed admirably again this week knowing he'll have to supplant Cody and Brock. Cody also made some plays despite taking some hits and made his case despite and underwhelming preseason overall. 

There's just too much competition, need, and potential to keep someone who may give you better play this year but isn't in your long term plans. 

 

[MSURacerDT55]

Why it so hard to understand that he wasn't the contract he had, we asked him to play at a lesser, reasonable price, he refused we cut him, next....

[MD4L]

Awesome signing for Pittsburgh. Even if he isn't the stud he once was he's on a better team and will be in the most competitive environment arguably since his NFL career began. Three year deal suggests Pittsburgh thinks he's got a lot left. For this season in particular at age 28 if he can play like a top 32 CB, Pittsburgh will be much better equipped against Oakland, New England, Atlanta, Seattle, and any other legitimate Super Bowl contender.