Lets Discuss All Things Wrestling - Even The T-Shirt Company AEW!

[Dr LBC]

19 hours ago, Troy Brown said:

I can't imagine Max is anywhere near his prime. He's going to be an all time great barring any injuries, he's only 25. I don't mind him wanting more money and I like this drama he's creating but my only point with your post is there's no way this is his prime 

No, but his next contract (wherever he signs it) is going to take him into his prime, thus he'll be committing part of his prime.  That was my point.  He's being judicious about that.. and it's smart.  There are more guys who should have been similarly judicious (*cough* AJ *cough*).

[Dr LBC]

13 hours ago, beekay414 said:

Onto Raw.

I'm not a fan of this new version of Becky Lynch.

As a standalone character, I like it.  But it's the sort of character that needs stronger foils and she isn't getting that.  The closest she gets is Bianca and diversity of her character is one of those areas where Bianca is still green (and where Vince wanting cookie-cutter stuff because Kevin Dunn has him convinced "that's what sells and is most marketable" is stagnating her in that department).

There was a strong potential for Becky to have taken this character into a riff (less sexbomb and more just beyond-egotistical) on Shawn's early HBK character (the heel version right up to around where he brought in Nash as his heater), but the struggle is real for heels when there aren't quality babyfaces to play opposite.

[Dr LBC]

5 hours ago, bcb1213 said:

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually get it.  Vince doesn't want anyone leaving and being able to use any part of their WWE name.  Dudes real name is Austin, so now it's just theory.  Anyone with two fake names gets to keep both (lacey evans, liv morgan, montez ford, etc)   or if they've been around a long time, he won't change it.  The same reason Pete Dunne became Butch (lol!)

It's also because Vince, as has been noted many times before, doesn't (or at least didn't, I don't know about 2.0) watch NXT.  So when he gets someone up on the roster, good luck convincing him that what his idea for someone is (or how he sees them) isn't Word of God.

And it has less to do with them going elsewhere and using the name as it does, he wants and sees value in own the trademark on the name that's most associated with them.  Vince, by and large, doesn't think about the competition; his hubris has always been his Achilles heel.  But he's greedy as sin, so if you're going to go somewhere else, he wants to still be able to profit off it.

[Dr LBC]

14 hours ago, beekay414 said:

You are a lost child

He looks like a rejected Young Buck.

In his defense, Finn's never had good taste.  Not once in his life.

[wgbeethree]

14 hours ago, beekay414 said:

Like this scrawny Garcia dude from JAS vs Moxley being the ME is just laughable.

Without being too hyperbolic Daniel Garcia has the most in ring potential I've seen in a long time. He's 23 and already a great in ring wrestler. He's going to be a GREAT wrestler. Get on the bandwagon now. 

[Troy Brown]

Idc about the Jericho stuff as much as I love him, I like 2.0 and Garcia a whole bunch but LBC is right, it's just Jericho's ego at this point. 

But the MJF angle... man oh man. I don't think Tony's got it in him to be on an on screen guy so I have no idea where this goes next (which is awesome) but MJF may have started his ascension to absolute superstardom last night. Still think there's some life in his obnoxious heel gimmick but the man is the most talented wrestler I feel like I've ever seen. He gets the crowd to do and feel whatever he wants. 

[beekay414]

2 hours ago, wgbeethree said:

Without being too hyperbolic Daniel Garcia has the most in ring potential I've seen in a long time. He's 23 and already a great in ring wrestler. He's going to be a GREAT wrestler. Get on the bandwagon now. 

[Dr LBC]

3 hours ago, wgbeethree said:

Without being too hyperbolic Daniel Garcia has the most in ring potential I've seen in a long time. He's 23 and already a great in ring wrestler. He's going to be a GREAT wrestler. Get on the bandwagon now. 

To beekay's point though, there's a reason why Bryan Danielson spent years on the independent circuit and rose no higher than ROH and the occasional Japanese tour - he needed to fill out - it was the same thing with Tyler Black/Seth Rollins.  Go back and watch Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness in ROH, and Nigel's not all that big of a guy to begin with, Bryan looked pretty rail thin against him.

I'm not saying Garcia can't get over as a shooter-type wrestler, but until he fills out he belongs nowhere near the main event or upper card (and sorry, but him being the reigning name-du-jour in PWG is a bad look on Super Dragon, who I've got a lot of respect for).  It'd be akin to booking Little Guido Maritano in your ME (and he was more filled out).  I mean, I love Dante Martin, I appreciate the hell out of what he can do, but again... he needs to have the look of a guy who wouldn't get broken in half in a bar fight to be taken seriously a main event pro wrestler.

[Dr LBC]

1 hour ago, Troy Brown said:

Idc about the Jericho stuff as much as I love him, I like 2.0 and Garcia a whole bunch but LBC is right, it's just Jericho's ego at this point. 

But the MJF angle... man oh man. I don't think Tony's got it in him to be on an on screen guy so I have no idea where this goes next (which is awesome) but MJF may have started his ascension to absolute superstardom last night. Still think there's some life in his obnoxious heel gimmick but the man is the most talented wrestler I feel like I've ever seen. He gets the crowd to do and feel whatever he wants. 

I still don't love the comparison, but Max very much reminds me of Shane Douglas.  He's a great worker.  He's got a massive mind for the business and is constantly thinking 3 or 4 moves ahead in his character. development.  And he's got a great promo that just knows how to manipulate a crowd.  Shane's problem was - and part of it was ego, part of it was that he really didn't get his break until late in his prime and that not-so-arguably ground against his ego - he didn't have a good feel for when to be sparing with the cursing so that the times he did curse meant more; but some of that could well be attributed to the mentality of the ECW crowd that wanted EVERYTHING counter-culture and if it was taboo they wanted more of it.

I also think Punk has a lot to do with Max's current booking.  Punk basically was given the roster list when he came in and told to pick who he wanted to work with.  It's telling that the guys he's had repeat engagements with are largely Max and FTR.  I think I sees a lot of himself in the ROH/MLW (even to a lesser extent TNA) days when he was working as a better-than-you heel.  And the thing is, Punk's the guy in that locker room (more than Jericho in my opinion, because Jericho can't see past himself these days) to guide Max on maximizing his value to the tune of setting himself up for life.

[Troy Brown]

25 minutes ago, Dr LBC said:

To beekay's point though, there's a reason why Bryan Danielson spent years on the independent circuit and rose no higher than ROH and the occasional Japanese tour - he needed to fill out - it was the same thing with Tyler Black/Seth Rollins.  Go back and watch Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness in ROH, and Nigel's not all that big of a guy to begin with, Bryan looked pretty rail thin against him.

I'm not saying Garcia can't get over as a shooter-type wrestler, but until he fills out he belongs nowhere near the main event or upper card (and sorry, but him being the reigning name-du-jour in PWG is a bad look on Super Dragon, who I've got a lot of respect for).  It'd be akin to booking Little Guido Maritano in your ME (and he was more filled out).  I mean, I love Dante Martin, I appreciate the hell out of what he can do, but again... he needs to have the look of a guy who wouldn't get broken in half in a bar fight to be taken seriously a main event pro wrestler.

Jericho's best work of '22 is probably getting Garcia to change his jobber gear and he looks a bit more legitimate now. But agreed, he is early 2000s bryan danielson reincarnate imo. Might even have more personality than he did at that point. 

[wgbeethree]

1 hour ago, Dr LBC said:

To beekay's point though, there's a reason why Bryan Danielson spent years on the independent circuit and rose no higher than ROH and the occasional Japanese tour - he needed to fill out - it was the same thing with Tyler Black/Seth Rollins.  Go back and watch Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness in ROH, and Nigel's not all that big of a guy to begin with, Bryan looked pretty rail thin against him.

I'm not saying Garcia can't get over as a shooter-type wrestler, but until he fills out he belongs nowhere near the main event or upper card (and sorry, but him being the reigning name-du-jour in PWG is a bad look on Super Dragon, who I've got a lot of respect for).  It'd be akin to booking Little Guido Maritano in your ME (and he was more filled out).  I mean, I love Dante Martin, I appreciate the hell out of what he can do, but again... he needs to have the look of a guy who wouldn't get broken in half in a bar fight to be taken seriously a main event pro wrestler.

You'd think with the prevelance of MMA people would realize that size isn't as big of deal in a fight as previously thought but I get how it's still hard to "dispend believe". Like there's literally 100s if not 1000 of guys Daniel Garcia's size that would beat the everloving **** out of a Roman Reigns or a Wardlow IRL. It's been 30+ years since Royce Gracie proved technique and skill are far more valuable in a real fight but it seems like wrestling fans have had a hard time catching up to that in fake fights. 

Long story short I get it....but....

 

[PARROTHEAD]

58 minutes ago, wgbeethree said:

You'd think with the prevelance of MMA people would realize that size isn't as big of deal in a fight as previously thought but I get how it's still hard to "dispend believe". Like there's literally 100s if not 1000 of guys Daniel Garcia's size that would beat the everloving **** out of a Roman Reigns or a Wardlow IRL. It's been 30+ years since Royce Gracie proved technique and skill are far more valuable in a real fight but it seems like wrestling fans have had a hard time catching up to that in fake fights. 

Long story short I get it....but....

 

Never heard a soul complain about Ricky Steamboats body of work. 

Cause its never happened.

 

[wgbeethree]

1 hour ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Never heard a soul complain about Ricky Steamboats body of work. 

Cause its never happened.

 

I literally can't even start to comprehend what or how that has anything to do with anything. Care to explain?

[y*so*blu]

I can think of no better way to commemorate the 300th page of this thread than to make Zelina Vega show up at all of your front doors, naked, with a pizza! Unfortunately the laws of time and space make this unfeasible. 😢 So instead, in no particular order, here's a list of the

Top Ten Things That Killed Pro Wrestling

10. The head palm shoot-off.    Possibly the dumbest, laziest, most credibility-killing shortcut in the business today, this occurs when a wrestler can't be arsed to do a proper Irish Whip on his opponent and instead just gives a light shove to the back of his head like "hey, it's time to go the ropes now." Unless you outweigh your competition by 200 pounds, this is absolute bull and should never be done in the ring.

9. Finishers that don't finish anyone.   Some of us--not many, but some--are young enough to remember when a wrestler's finisher actually ended a match. Jake Roberts' DDT, Hulk Hogan's atomic legdrop, Vader's Vaderbomb... if any of these happened to you, you were done. By the early 2000s, would-be finishers like the Stone Cold Stunner and the Angle Slam were being kicked out of with regularity to create drama in main-event matches. Twenty years later this bad habit has metastasized like a cancer, to the point that John Moxley needed five signature moves, a chainsaw, and a hydrogen bomb to pin Wheeler Yuta.

8. John Cena.   Not the hardworking Cena himself, God bless him, so much as the contrived and uncompromising booking that catapulted him to the top in 2005--whether all the fans were ready for it or not. Previously when a face got booed, he would be taken off TV and repackaged or simply turned heel. When WWE stubbornly refused to do this with Cena, the boos followed him for the rest of his career, and an unspoken bond between the promotion and its fans was severed.

7. Steve Austin's "what?"   There were many great things the Rattlesnake contributed to the wrestling business. (What?) This was not one of them. (What?) In fact it sucked balls. (What?)

6. The "this is awesome" chant.   No. This chant, used from the mid-2000s onward to praise a well-executed match, is not actually a good thing. It was the start of live audiences viewing a match as a collection of impressive moves rather than a story of babyface versus heel. And it led to the video game-style "performances" you see so much now, in which you can do ten double-superkicks in a row because nothing matters anymore.

5. The Curtain Call.   Predating any of the other things listed so far, this selfish gesture by The Kliq still lives in infamy. It wasn't the first business-exposing incident in wrestling; far from it. But this one hurt the most because it happened in the age of the Internet--when the footage could be reported and replayed endlessly for anyone who wanted to see it. Younger fans innocently asking "what was so controversial? The crowd loved it" just goes to show how much we've lost the plot since.

4. Striking exchanges.   In which wrestlers, on multiple occasions, will stand stock-still in front of each other trading telegraphed punches and kicks (or worse, "forearms") for the crowd's amusement. Never mind that pro wrestling is supposed to simulate an athletic contest, and ridiculous exchanges like these would never happen in that environment. As we've seen in boxing and MMA a thousand times, if a guy really is taking multiple unblocked shots to the head, he will either go out like a light or desperately try to clinch.

3. Bad comedy.   All of the major promotions to exist in the last 30 years have been guilty of this, so I'm not going to pick on any one in particular. But Jesus Christ is there a lot of stagey, phony, unfunny "comedy" in wrestling. From "sketches" that would have been rejected by SNL in 1985 to joke wrestlers like Joey Ryan and Orange Cassidy, this crap has gotten hopelessly out of control.

2. Vince Russo.   This one needs no explanation.

1. Hardcore wrestling.   I know, ECW was all the rage back in the day. There was absolutely nothing else like it in wrestling (unless you knew about FMW which most American fans didn't) ... but then WWF started doing it. And WCW started doing it. And then TNA did it from day one. Now everybody does it, even the women, and any impact it once had is gone. Light tubes, thumbtacks, barbwire bats, stapleguns, pizza cutters, exploding rings... all of these things have become props in a play we've already seen WAY too many times, and done more harm than good to wrestling in the process.

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by y*so*blu

[Deadpulse]

8 hours ago, Troy Brown said:

But the MJF angle... man oh man. I don't think Tony's got it in him to be on an on screen guy so I have no idea where this goes next (which is awesome) but MJF may have started his ascension to absolute superstardom last night.

Personally if it was me, you just have MJF be cryptic and cut promo's for awhile. Have him interrupt segments, do things to force Tony out to fire him. Try and sabotage the Forbidden Door PPV, etc. Ruin "dream matches". Kayfabe injury some faces. Then once you get through FD, rekindle the Punk feud. Have Punk be the Tony proxy. They laid the seeds with both their originally program and kicking this thing off with basically an homage to Punk's pipebomb. Have him take the title off Punk in a Punk town. Then have MJF run off with it. Tweet out that he will never appear as AEW champion on Dynamite or Rampage. Have him show up and squash guys in AAA, TNA, NJPW, etc. Then, taunt him with Wardlow and a new contract. Set the stip up that if Wardlow wins, Tony will fire MJF. If MJF wins, he gets a new contract with a blank pay line. Have Wardlow win and fire MJF. Recreate the whole Cody/WWE saga with MJF except eventually he comes back in the fold because Tony promises him what Cody didn't get - creative control. After that, the world is your oyster.