Lets Discuss All Things Wrestling - Even The T-Shirt Company AEW!

[Dr LBC]

Does Tony understand the definition of a hat on a hat?

I'm not even going to question the merit of a gimmick match for the state of the Hangman/Swerve feud (which I disagree with some online that are saying "with no hyperbole, no exaggeration, this is one of the greatest pro wrestling feuds in history" (yeah... if you started watching wrestling in the Ruthless Aggression era).  This feud is at the point where a gimmick match is absolutely merited - a shade overkill since pretty much every match in the feud (even the triple threat with Joe) was gimmicky, but that kind of also forces the expectation for this one.  But "we're not doing a cage match... we're doing a LIGHTS OUT, unsanctioned cage match," is more than a little redundant, but also just ignores sensible booking.

You have a cage match to keep outside interference out or to keep one of the guys in the match from running because they're demonstrated a history of running during the feud.  And as content as AEW, or at least some of the people in AEW, have been to try to use real life events as a storyline element, then that door swings both ways.  "Oh, we're going to book it, sell tickets and PPV buys to watch it, put it in front of a live audience, and hype it up... but we're not sanctioning it."  Again, a lights out match is for all intents and purposes an empty arena match, hence the stadium lights not being on during the match (i.e. "lights out").  This is Match Mad Libs.

Also, if this isn't the blowoff for the feud (and if it is, unless you're either using the morality play aesthetic as toilet paper or you're start-stop-nowhere-ing yet another Adam Page push), you're running out of gimmicks - and the expectation for the level of gimmickry - for whenever the actual blowoff comes.  I mean, what would be left?  A Hangman's Match where you win by literally putting a noose around the neck of your opponent and hoisting them up from a crane?  A "Literally Murder Your Opponent" match (so basically going "Jump the Shark" TNA style like they did with Eric Young before he was brought back from the dead)?

On a side note, I hope and pray that Mox and Marina's new gimmick isn't the introduction of Shane McMahon to do a whole redux of RAW Underground, where Moxley gets to pretend he's the second-coming of Sakuraba, because he did a low-budget MMA movie, trained at Xtreme Couture before the pandemic, and won the beginners division of a grappling tournament where he faced all of one guy.

[StLunatic88]

21 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

Does Tony understand the definition of a hat on a hat?

Sadly, I think you may have nailed everything that’s about to happen

[iknowcool]

In kayfabe, has any wrestler ever been taken out with an injury more than Rey Mysterio?  Dude is the GOAT at getting beatdown on-screen.

[iknowcool]

Surely Jey Use won't lose another title match... right?

[Texansfan713]

Gunther is such a troll telling Bret his all time favorite wrestler is Bill Goldberg.  I know that had to hurt Bret's soul lol

[beekay414]

30 minutes ago, Texansfan713 said:

Gunther is such a troll telling Bret his all time favorite wrestler is Bill Goldberg.  I know that had to hurt Bret's soul lol

Bret loved it lol. That smirk when he knew what was coming was telling. Hell, it was probably Bret's idea ffs.

[Dr LBC]

6 hours ago, beekay414 said:

Bret loved it lol. That smirk when he knew what was coming was telling. Hell, it was probably Bret's idea ffs.

Yeah, I mean, not like Bret's going to be working any kind of match ever, but Bret's the one there and getting the payday... Bill's not and Bill's the one whose been prostrating himself to whoever will listen to try and get some sort of high-profile retirement match (and I don't doubt has been practically begging to get in on the Cena retirement tour).  As long as the workers are getting the prominent spots on the roster over the "Vince guys" (for lack of a better word of the body-guys who had to be carried through matches but were still pushed hard because they "looked the part") Bret's satisfied with the product.

[Dr LBC]

18 hours ago, iknowcool said:

In kayfabe, has any wrestler ever been taken out with an injury more than Rey Mysterio?  Dude is the GOAT at getting beatdown on-screen.

I'm struggling to remember who, but there was one guy in the early 2000's who was almost perpetually in a neckbrace 0 far, far before Roderick Strong ever started his #NeckStrong gimmick.

[iknowcool]

4 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

I'm struggling to remember who, but there was one guy in the early 2000's who was almost perpetually in a neckbrace 0 far, far before Roderick Strong ever started his #NeckStrong gimmick.

The Quintessential Stud Muffin

 

[Dr LBC]

16 hours ago, iknowcool said:

The Quintessential Stud Muffin

 

Well, yeah that was part of Gertner's gimmick.  But I think there was a wrestler that did it too, to the point where he came out in a gimmicked full-body cast (to be fair, I believe he was wheeled out in a chair) at one point.

[wgbeethree]

On 9/5/2024 at 10:40 AM, StLunatic88 said:

But you want AEW to stay in business right? Thats the stake you have in this. Because that is on the table, Tony will lose some money, hes not going to blow all his money

Not even something I'm remotely worried about. I think you're underestimating how insanely wealthy the Kahns are and how much of a passion project AEW is for Tony. He could lose $1 million a week for the next ten years (a ridiculous number for this purpose that isn't remotely going to happen) and still be a billionaire before even taking his inheritance into account.

AEW is about to get a new TV/streaming deal (perhaps deals plural if rumors are to be believed) but if worse came to worst and he wanted to TK could scale things back to a TNAish level and continue indefinitely without putting a dent in his wealth. Basically TK has the finances and connections to put out wrestling shows for as long as he wants to.

Hell, with WWE being tied to the whims of corporations like Endevour and Netflix now it's entirely possible AEW is around in some form longer than WWE. They've got no real investment in pro wrestling other than the literal investment. 

Edited September 12 by wgbeethree

[StLunatic88]

7 hours ago, wgbeethree said:

Not even something I'm remotely worried about. I think you're underestimating how insanely wealthy the Kahns are and how much of a passion project AEW is for Tony. He could lose $1 million a week for the next ten years (a ridiculous number for this purpose that isn't remotely going to happen) and still be a billionaire before even taking his inheritance into account.

AEW is about to get a new TV/streaming deal (perhaps deals plural if rumors are to be believed) but if worse came to worst and he wanted to TK could scale things back to a TNAish level and continue indefinitely without putting a dent in his wealth. Basically TK has the finances and connections to put out wrestling shows for as long as he wants to.

Hell, with WWE being tied to the whims of corporations like Endevour and Netflix now it's entirely possible AEW is around in some form longer than WWE. They've got no real investment in pro wrestling other than the literal investment. 

You are just living in fantasy land with all of this

[Texansfan713]

WWE bringing back WWE Saturday Night's Main Event.

 

[Dr LBC]

8 hours ago, Texansfan713 said:

WWE bringing back WWE Saturday Night's Main Event.

 

Bruh, you buried the lede on that... they're bringing it back with Jesse Ventura on commentary.  Nothing against Michael Cole, and I think he has taught and developed some solid intentionally-vanilla, babyface announcers over the year, but Cole's strength was never really as a heel color guy.  For as much as he gives Cole credit, it's a wonder that Corey Graves has been able to be such a classic heel commentator (when called upon) - though that's likely integrating personality from his promo work when he was still able to wrestle (early Corey Graves and Sterling James Keenan were fantastic heels).  Jesse, who respects the business and has no issue imparting advice and guidance on guys who come to him asking for feedback, will only help make guys like Graves and Barrett better.

[Dr LBC]

So, I'd been struggling for a while to put to words why a lot of the "they brought back violence" stuff that was the hallmark of All Out just didn't land with me.  I can and have enjoyed death match style stuff in the past - it's not my preferred cup of tea but it's not battery acid to me either.  But then Stevie Richards elucidated it perfectly; if you're going to do something it has to "mean something."  And mean something to the storyline or feud you're running with, mean something to your character (and make sense for your character), otherwise it's just gimmick BS for the sake of doing gimmick BS.

Now, maybe you can make the contention that the multiple cinder block spots were callbacks to Swerve's feud with Keith Lee (I'm not sure I'd be so keen on calling back to the feud because they never actually even tried to wrap that up even before Keith had his health issues).  But the syringe spot?  Moxley using a plastic bag to suffocate Bryan; which I guess was supposed to be some callback to Terry Funk/Flair in '89, which in itself was a callback to a spot Terry used in Japan...

They don't have a logical fit in anything story or character wise and are just edgy gimmicks that the AEW crowd hasn't seen (and that may not even be the case depending on how many indie shows they've been to).  As gimmicky as ECW got at times, guys like Raven, Dreamer, even Sabu would turn down doing certain stuff - not because they felt it was unsafe or they were scared to do it, but because it didn't logically fit into the character and story.  Both Dreamer and Raven have recounted how a number of those dumb idea came from Sandman, when he was trashed out of his mind and wanted to take what he thought would be a cool looking spot and see if he could.  Go back and watch Bubba throughout his career, he wasn't going to use any sort of gimmicky weapon besides a table or chair, unless it was the culmination of a blood feud type storyline (which is when you'd usually see the Dudleys break out the flaming table) or if it made sense for the character (either himself, once the ball pein hammer became a part of the Aces & Eights story in TNA; or for any opponent he was facing, for example New Jack or Balls Mahoney).  The lone exception I can really think of was their One Night Stand appearances where both Paul and Vince (at least with the first one because he knew it would spike the PPV buys of any future ONS) pressed them (and again, notice the running theme of Sandman) on stuff the cheese grater spot.  Otherwise Bubba's been pretty adamant that even in staggering intense feuds, weapons should be limited to fists, chairs, the occasional table (at meaningful spots, not just for a "This is Awesome!" chant) and a cage if it's the gimmick of the match... unless the weapon is something very character specific (Dusty's bull rope and cattle bell, HTM and Jarrett's guitars, Mountie's cattle-prod/stun-stick, Finlay's sheleleigh, I believe he once noted specifically Macho King's scepter).