OTA/Camp Observations 2019

[sp6488]

17 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Not being able to be a #1 pass rusher when that's precisely why we drafted him and what his perceived strength was coming out of college? He's not elite or even great at anything. 

That's an insanely high level of expected production for a 5th rounder.  Being a good every game starter is a home run for that round.

[Ray Reed]

I've read way too many times this summer about Tony Jefferson getting burned and blowing coverages. When do we admit to ourselves that this guy isn't good lol Clark or Elliott need to be starting at that other spot if Tony gets burned more than a few times in the first few games

[diamondbull424]

6 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

I've read way too many times this summer about Tony Jefferson getting burned and blowing coverages. When do we admit to ourselves that this guy isn't good lol Clark or Elliott need to be starting at that other spot if Tony gets burned more than a few times in the first few games

I mean, Chuck Clark should already be starting there based off of his play the past few years in camp, preseason, and games.

I honestly have no idea what Jefferson has been doing to Harbaugh to at least not even have to compete for his spot, but I’m starting to wonder if someone needs to let Harbaugh’s wife know about this potential arrangement... unless it’s some really kinky stuff going on over there and she’s involved and partly to blame. 

[diamondbull424]

12 hours ago, sp6488 said:

That's an insanely high level of expected production for a 5th rounder.  Being a good every game starter is a home run for that round.

I get where you guys are coming from with this perspective, but I agree with AFS here. For a 5th round pick these are excellent results to get out of them compared to the league as a whole.

That said, when said 5th round pick is no longer treated as a 5th round pick (he’s not forced to be involved in a rotation to at least allow other players to shine nor does he have to compete for his spot), when said 5th round pick is talking about how he wants a big time contract, and when that 5th round pick is on a team where when measured by the standards of previous day 3 selections, his performance is nothing crazy... 

[Adalius Thomas, Jermaine Lewis, Dennis Pitta, Edwin Mulitalo, Jarrett Johnson, Sam Koch, Dawan Landry, Rick Wagner, Chester Taylor, Ed Hartwell, Kyle Juszyck, Pernell McPhee, Jason Brown, Arthur Jones, LeRon McClain, Ryan Jensen, Abrayo Franklin, Jeff Mitchell, Tony Pashos, Tavon Young, Jared Gaither, Ovie Mughelli, Nick Boyle, Brandon Stokley, Zadarius Smith.]

... then the expectations for what you bring to the table also increase. To use an analogy. If I am a HS dropout that eventually obtains a position at a Fortune 500 company as a CEO due to some combination of opportunity, work ethic, and intelligence... there comes a time when I cease to be simply a HS dropout and become simply Fortune 500 CEO with high expectations.

In a contract year with an obvious path to production and with a team that he expects to bring their best figure to the negotiating table, it’s only right for that time of advanced expectation to be now. Judon is no longer Matthew Judon the 5th round pick out of a small college, but is now Matthew Judon the protected starter with a lot to prove to the organization for a next contract investment.

Edited August 15, 2019 by diamondbull424

[DreamKid]

19 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

In a contract year with an obvious path to production and with a team that he expects to bring their best figure to the negotiating table, it’s only right for that time of advanced expectation is now. Judon is no longer Matthew Judon the 5th round pick out of a small college, but is now Matthew Judon the protected starter with a lot to prove to the organization for a next contract investment.

Judon is legit supposed to be "The Man" at EDGE now. Our #1 pass rusher. He should be held to the highest standards possible.

Bowser and Williams should be under the microscope, we need them to step up and replace ZDS & Suggs. Judon though, he should be drawing the most attention. As I said, he's going to be seeking a contract bigger than any other player's on this team. Yet he's had a super quiet offseason, filled with absences and coach pullbacks. And I've read more critical material about Jaylon Ferguson- a Rookie. It's a little odd.

[AngusMcFife]

12 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

To use an analogy. If I am a HS dropout that eventually obtains a position at a Fortune 500 company as a CEO due to some combination of opportunity, work ethic, and intelligence... there comes a time when I cease to be simply a HS dropout and become simply Fortune 500 CEO with high expectations.

In a contract year with an obvious path to production and with a team that he expects to bring their best figure to the negotiating table, it’s only right for that time of advanced expectation to be now. Judon is no longer Matthew Judon the 5th round pick out of a small college, but is now Matthew Judon the protected starter with a lot to prove to the organization for a next contract investment.

Well that's not exactly apt. I'd say Judon is a high school dropout who got a mid-level job at a corporation, and then this year got promoted to manager. So we'll see how he does in that role.  

[AngusMcFife]

12 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Judon is legit supposed to be "The Man" at EDGE now. Our #1 pass rusher. He should be held to the highest standards possible.

Bowser and Williams should be under the microscope, we need them to step up and replace ZDS & Suggs. Judon though, he should be drawing the most attention. As I said, he's going to be seeking a contract bigger than any other player's on this team. Yet he's had a super quiet offseason, filled with absences and coach pullbacks. And I've read more critical material about Jaylon Ferguson- a Rookie. It's a little odd.

The person who has the most to lose BY FAR for not performing is Matt Judon. The amount of pressure that the media can put on him for not performing is utterly insignificant compared to the pressure he faces in his actual life. 

I haven't heard anything about how Judon has been dogging it in practice or showing up out of shape. Until I see evidence that he isn't putting forth max effort, I don't see what you can be critical of. Maybe you are imagining Judon has a much higher ceiling than he has in reality. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, AngusMcFife said:

Well that's not exactly apt. I'd say Judon is a high school dropout who got a mid-level job at a corporation, and then this year got promoted to manager. So we'll see how he does in that role.  

He got a job, and then because the people above him got promoted he's now the manager in charge yet has shown no signs of being able to manage so naturally people are worried

[AngusMcFife]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

He got a job, and then because the people above him got promoted he's now the manager in charge yet has shown no signs of being able to manage so naturally people are worried

Based on what evidence? We haven't seen any games yet. 

[AngusMcFife]

Judon's first 3 years have been far superior to the first 3 years of Za'Darius Smith, Correa, Upshaw, John Simon, Pernell McPhee, Kindle, and Kruger. It looks like his first 3 will also be superior to Bowser and Tim Williams as well. In fact, I would argue of all the Ravens OLB draftees, has had the best 3 year start to his career since Suggs. 

And people think he's just going to wet the bed once the season starts? As if he hasn't been busting his *** to get from Grand Valley State to starting OLB of the Ravens. 

[RavensTillIDie]

I really don't get the complaints about Judon. He's a fifth round draft pick, being paid as such, and has far exceeded his draft slot from a production standpoint. He is what he is, a competent NFL starter. He gets you around 6-7 sacks a season, does a decent job setting the edge, and is a fierce competitor who makes some boneheaded mistakes from time-to-time. We all know given the premium on his position, chances are a team massively overpays him in free agency next year. Meaning we are most likely going to let him walk in exchange for a compensatory pick. So, assuming we're all on the same page there, what's the issue? If he proves to be better than his previous years production, that's great. If he proves to be the same player he's always been, that is fine as well. What has he done to warrant lofty expectations like being a "true #1 edge rusher"? That was a role that was thrust upon him by the coaching staff because the other players on the roster have not proven to be better. And he's certainly not being paid like a "true #1 edge rusher", so again, what's there to complain about?

[Danand]

I think some of it stems from Judon being very open about wanting to get paid big bucks. He has outplayed his draft status, and is a solid outside linebacker, but what he wants in a contract is not equal to his production.

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, AngusMcFife said:

Based on what evidence? We haven't seen any games yet. 

Based on everything we've read and seen from camp, and the first preseason game. I don't think anyone here is solidified in the opinion that he's going to bust as "the guy" at OLB, but there's no evidence suggesting so far that he's taken that leap to being that top pass rusher we're going to be expecting to see.

19 minutes ago, RavensTillIDie said:

I really don't get the complaints about Judon. He's a fifth round draft pick, being paid as such, and has far exceeded his draft slot from a production standpoint. 

Can we stop with this? It's his 4th year in the league. Why are we still looking at him based on where he was drafted 4 years ago? If this was true why would we even consider paying him when EDC could just say "You were a 5th round pick, here's $1,000,000 because you were a 5th round pick.". Like DB24 said, at some point you're no longer that 5th round pick, but you're now a starting OLB in the NFL and you have to be evaluated as such.

48 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Judon's first 3 years have been far superior to the first 3 years of Za'Darius Smith, Correa, Upshaw, John Simon, Pernell McPhee, Kindle, and Kruger. It looks like his first 3 will also be superior to Bowser and Tim Williams as well. In fact, I would argue of all the Ravens OLB draftees, has had the best 3 year start to his career since Suggs. 

And people think he's just going to wet the bed once the season starts? As if he hasn't been busting his *** to get from Grand Valley State to starting OLB of the Ravens. 

Nobody is arguing that we've gotten more value out of Judon than we have from higher picks, but consider three of those names on your list: Za'Darius Smith, Pernell McPhee and Paul Kruger. What happened to them when they got paid to be "the guy" on other teams in FA? Kruger and McPhee busted, and busted hard. 

Judon has vasty outperformed his draft status, and nobody is debating that. But is he a top OLB in the NFL worthy of receiving the contract he's likely going to command? This year will determine that, because up to this point it sure looks like we'd receive a pretty solid comp pick letting him go vs. paying him Za'Darius Smith money for a guy who is just an average OLB compared to the rest of the league - and that's the point. Is he a massive success vs. where he was picked in the draft? Of course. Does that mean we should pay him $18M/year? No, it does not.

[RavensTillIDie]

I don't get where the disconnect is coming from. So, we all agree he is what he is and he's far outperformed his draft slot. And I don't think anyone in their right mind has said they want to pay him anywhere close to $18M/year when his contract expires. So, what exactly are you guys arguing here? He's not worth his hypothetical future contract? Certainly not, but I figured that was pretty much a given.

[Danand]

37 minutes ago, RavensTillIDie said:

I don't get where the disconnect is coming from. So, we all agree he is what he is and he's far outperformed his draft slot. And I don't think anyone in their right mind has said they want to pay him anywhere close to $18M/year when his contract expires. So, what exactly are you guys arguing here? He's not worth his hypothetical future contract? Certainly not, but I figured that was pretty much a given.

The discussion comes from this

On 13.8.2019 at 10:24 PM, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Not being able to be a #1 pass rusher when that's precisely why we drafted him and what his perceived strength was coming out of college? He's not elite or even great at anything.