2020 NFL Draft Thread

[jimkelly02]

1 minute ago, BayRaider said:

100%. DHB was just a track star. He couldn't even catch the football. And his speed was 4.30... not even 4.2. At least Ross was record-breaking 4.22 speed to gamble on. DHB at 9 was such a horrible selection.

Absolutely, not only they but DHB wasn’t even a productive college WR... at least Ross balled out his senior year.... but everyone knew he was too frail for the NFL... he may have his 6 game stretches with some nice bombs but he was never going to be a dominant WR.

[BayRaider]

Interesting thing about Ross is he had a 2 game flash this year where he looked like a Top 10 WR, and then got injured. And I do remember the Raiders were "rumored" to give a 3rd Round Pick for Ross during the off season last year. Although the Raiders are rumored to be connected to everything anything in the world for some reason.

Ross looks like a bust, but I'd say the jury is still out. Let's see him in action this year.

[Frankie2Gunz]

3 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

You know what my answer on that would be. Why bait me into a 3-4 page argue war against of Me vs Jim/You? I've got my opinion on this, you got yours.

And personally, I don't expect any of them to "hardcore bust". I just expect Lamb to me more of an Upper Tier WR2, still a Top 25 WR in the NFL, but not as good as Ruggs/Jeudy. I think Ruggs will have the worst rookie year of the three though.

I'm not trying to bait you into anything, I just wanted to know who good or bad the top 3 WR's will be and who will bust.  

I do find it interesting that you think Tua, Jeudy and Ruggs will be stars int he NFL.  Don't try to back track you've been hying them up all draft season.

I guarantee you all will not be stars or pose good value on where they will be drafted.  

[BayRaider]

2 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I'm not trying to bait you into anything, I just wanted to know who good or bad the top 3 WR's will be and who will bust.  

I do find it interesting that you think Tua, Jeudy and Ruggs will be stars int he NFL.  Don't try to back track you've been hying them up all draft season.

I guarantee you all will not be stars or pose good value on where they will be drafted.  

Response to Bolded #1: I feel like you are suggesting I am a Alabama fan. I have zero connection to Alabama, not an Alabama fan in any way, and rarely root for them in games. I was rooting for LSU over them this past year. And I rooted for Clemson over them in every National Championship. Alabama was becoming the Patriots to me for a little while. I'm also super low on Trevon Diggs, more than most.

Response to Bolded #2: You're correct. 15-16 out of 32 1st Round Talents bust every single year.

[jimkelly02]

1 minute ago, BayRaider said:

Response to Bolded #1: I feel like you are suggesting I am a Alabama fan. I have zero connection to Alabama, not an Alabama fan in any way, and rarely root for them in games. I was rooting for LSU over them this past year. And I rooted for Clemson over them in every National Championship. Alabama was becoming the Patriots to me for a little while. I'm also super low on Trevon Diggs, more than most.

Response to Bolded #2: You're correct. 15-16 out of 32 1st Round Talents bust every single year.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-path-to-the-draft/09000d5d82862de5/Al-Davis-draft-philosophy

i was saving this link for a long post I was writing (I write them in my word doc first if long, cuz I’m lost like 3 long, detailed messages... then just gave up Instead rewriting).

Al thought if he saw a player show elite abilities against elite competition then it was on his coaches to bring it out on a consistent basis. 

[BayRaider]

Don't have time to watch that but I would definitely say I have no where near Davis draft philosophy. I wouldn't have picked DHB at 9, nor JaMarcus at 1. Nor would I have drafted Fabian Washington in the first 2 Rounds, let alone the 1st Round.

McFadden at 4 I definitely might of pulled the trigger on though, I really liked him in college.

 

[jimkelly02]

1 hour ago, BayRaider said:

Don't have time to watch that but I would definitely say I have no where near Davis draft philosophy. I wouldn't have picked DHB at 9, nor JaMarcus at 1. Nor would I have drafted Fabian Washington in the first 2 Rounds, let alone the 1st Round.

McFadden at 4 I definitely might of pulled the trigger on though, I really liked him in college.

 

I didn’t say you did.... it was for everyone to look at... and just gave some explanation to Al’s draft freak athletes, me DHB who was being discussed 

And like I said Ross will continue to tease the Bengals with a few games here and there were he goes off then disappear and disappoint with injury 

[NCOUGHMAN]

2 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

Great point.  It even more undermines the claim that Jeudy’s 4.45 to Okudah’s 4.48 is no big deal, but Lamb’s 4.45 to Okudah’s 4.48 is a huge difference.

Okudah:

10y: 1.60    20y: 2.65   40y:4.48

Jeudy:

10y: 1.56    20y: 2.59    40y: 4.45

Lamb: 

10y: 1.58    20y: 2.62    40y: 4.50

(Is Lamb gonna smok’s Okudah consistently for the first 20yd’s of a deep pass?  Should we be worried about Okudah’s mid range speed? Absolutely not!

Also, those are the BEST of 2 times... on one day.  
In fact, Jeudy’s unofficial time was 4.46 and Okudah’s other run was 4.49.  Were talking fractions of a second... so much that the timers must use insane cameras to count number of frames on the jump and finish.  That’s why these times change from unofficial to official.

so if Lamb was 4.496 and Jeudy was 4.454 does that chance BR’s opinion on how major the difference in speed is between them?  What is Okudah ran 4.484?

So where does BayRaider draw the line.  .03 isn’t that much but .05 is?  Well Lamb was only .02 slower than Okudah and a good contested catch WR whose nice route running could easily slow Okudah down slightly.  Not to mention Lamb is better at defeating press at the LoS and stronger to handle the constant bumping and hand checks that Happen throughout a 40yd deep route.  

All 3 players are all in the same ballpark of speed and to say otherwise is crazy.  I will agree that Jeudy’s game speed is slightly better than his time showed.  But that only strengths my point.... the 40 is just an indicator of speed.   These  players speed will change within the .03, that BR uses to draw the line in the sand and say that’s where it becomes a major difference on a daily basis, if they were to run them daily.

To disqualify Lamb as being a deep threat because he’s 4.50 and to say Jeudy is a deep threat at 4.45 is insane.

it’s very telling that BR moves the argument from 4.45/4.50 to 4.50/4.55 in his response.  He does that because he knows how weak his stance is.  So he moves it towards a threshold (4.55) that is an indicator of deep speed.  Reality is 4.45 and 4.48 and 4.50 are all basically the same time and all three players will routinely beat each other deep one play and not the next.  That’s because the difference in speed is minuscule and the footwork and physicality throughout the route is what will determine the outcome.

This is just another example of how the search button can come back and get you when your inconsistent in your stances.

Dam makes me think how fast is Chaisson cause lol he caught lamb from behind. Says coming out of hs Chaisson was a 4.63 guy. I know it’s different positions/people but if tee Higgins went from 4.7 in hs to 4.5 at pro day. Not surprised if Chaisson is a 4.53 guy now.
 

I know .3 or .5 doesn’t mean much in shorts but for example Tanner muse chased down dk dobbins in that Clem/Ohio st game and barely got him by diving and tripping him up. If tanner was .3 or .5 slower it’s a dk td imo. 
 

or when Chaisson chased down lamb. If lamb was .3 to .5 faster it’s a td imo. Especially with fatigue as a factor .3 and .5 imo matters in the game.

[Humble_Beast]

Wouldn’t be mad at Chaisson at 12 and trade up a few picks at 19 to get Lamb or Ruggs.... trading up in the 3rd to get a press corner in the 2nd.... 

[jimkelly02]

8 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Dam makes me think how fast is Chaisson cause lol he caught lamb from behind. Says coming out of hs Chaisson was a 4.63 guy. I know it’s different positions/people but if tee Higgins went from 4.7 in hs to 4.5 at pro day. Not surprised if Chaisson is a 4.53 guy now.
 

I know .3 or .5 doesn’t mean much in shorts but for example Tanner muse chased down dk dobbins in that Clem/Ohio st game and barely got him by diving and tripping him up. If tanner was .3 or .5 slower it’s a dk td imo. 
 

or when Chaisson chased down lamb. If lamb was .3 to .5 faster it’s a td imo. Especially with fatigue as a factor .3 and .5 imo matters in the game.

You mean .03 and .05 I think.

watch the simulam races.  .05 difference is essentially Nothing.  And once again these times are the best of 2 runs, on one day..... every single player would run a slightly different time the next day, week, month and year.  Look at how players improve their times at pro days.  
 

the whole chasing someone down from behind thing does show the chaser’s speed but it really isn’t fair to compare the speed of both players.  Even a slight angle can really help catch someone.  And just like all 4.45 runners don’t have the same split times.... players have different accelerations.  
not to mention the ball carrier could just be tired.  Dobbins isn’t likely to be at his peak speed in the middle of his break away run on his something like 28th carry.

plus in many instances the runner drifts to get away fro the defenders so it’s not a straight line.

....but it is fun game to play, I feel you.

[NCOUGHMAN]

18 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

You mean .03 and .05 I think.

watch the simulam races.  .05 difference is essentially Nothing.  And once again these times are the best of 2 runs, on one day..... every single player would run a slightly different time the next day, week, month and year.  Look at how players improve their times at pro days.  
 

the whole chasing someone down from behind thing does show the chaser’s speed but it really isn’t fair to compare the speed of both players.  Even a slight angle can really help catch someone.  And just like all 4.45 runners don’t have the same split times.... players have different accelerations.  
not to mention the ball carrier could just be tired.  Dobbins isn’t likely to be at his peak speed in the middle of his break away run on his something like 28th carry.

plus in many instances the runner drifts to get away fro the defenders so it’s not a straight line.

....but it is fun game to play, I feel you.

That’s fair and yea .03 and .05

i just know some guys can just hop out of bed and run a 4.4 or jump a 40 inch vert. Everyone isn’t able. Watching the 40 you can see guys struggling and some just naturally fast. I agree about angles I’m a ex defensive player and I was never the fastest. 

that lamb chase down wasn’t about angles just acceleration. Lamb may have top speed but that 0-20 yards I’m willing to bet Chaisson isn’t a slouch either in 0-20

i hear you about dobbins being tired but he’s a 4.44 guy and muse is a 4.41 guy lol but yea it’s too many variables I don’t think Jeudy, Jefferson etc gets caught by Chaisson tho

[MrOaktown_56]

Some really good discussion in here guys. I enjoy reading through all your posts so much more when the focus is on football.

[oakdb36]

15 hours ago, NYRaider said:

To be fair, Chase also destroyed AJ Terrell in the title game. 

Sure but it wasn't just his coverage on Chase. He also gave up some 1st downs and even a TD with his poor tackling.

[BayRaider]

My Official Mock is up if anyone is interested in checking it out:

I'm literally draft fatigured. Gonna spend the next 14 days no mocks, no watching players, no listening to radio about draft, limit draft discussion, etc. Just gonna relax, think about other things, and be super pumped for April 23rd.

Whatever happens, in Mayock I trust.

Edited April 9, 2020 by BayRaider

[oakdb36]

How does Ruggs compare to Marquise Brown? Who's the best prospect? Why?