A.M- Life After Marcus Watch (options?)

[TitanSS]

47 minutes ago, ragevsuall17 said:

Is he though?

Mariota weeks 1-4 was 74/119, 62.2%, 933, 7:0, 106.2 rating, 7.84 y/a, 9.02 ay/a, 17 sacks/122, 17 rushes/112, 2-2 record

Tannehill in his 3 starts is 71/101, 70.3%, 836, 6:3, 102.6 rating, 8.28 y/a, 8.13 ay/a, 9 sacks/57, 13 rushes/42, 2-1 record

To me, the needle hasn't moved much.  Tannehill is more accurate and has thrown for more yards, but is worse on his efficiencies (td and int %'s), hence why Mariota had a higher QB rating.  Mariota took more sacks, but also created more yards running.

 

What I'm saying is that if we're keeping our staff, then it doesn't matter if Tannehill or someone like Keenum is the placeholder... neither are good enough to overcome the staff.  Tannehill has been better in our broken system... he's faster getting rid of the ball, and that's huge here.  But he's also more careless and forces things.  

We need to upgrade the offensive staff... and at that point, we're hoping anyone will have a better shot of sustained success.... 

 

Signing RT won't be the end of the world... but he also won't make a difference over someone else holding the seat warm for a rookie.  I'll take him over Bridgewater.  But if someone like Keenum is available at a cheaper price, I'll take him and spend that extra money on the Oline.

Just looking at a stat sheet has never been a great way of coming to a conclusion. You can use it to verify what you're seeing, but it doesn't always tell the story. 

In years past, we all agreed that Mariota played better than his statistic would indicate, and this year it was a given among most on here that he has played worse than his statistics would indicate. 

Admittedly, I didn't watch the 2nd half of Sunday's game and apparently Tannehill didn't play that well. I cannot comment as I haven't seen it. However, in my eyes, there has been a noticeable uptick in QB performance with Tannehill under center. I understand the final results may not be a lot better, but I think his performance has been.

I'm also not as inclined to believe that our system is so god awful that no one can succeed in it. Is Arthur Smith a good OC? Nah. Should he be fired? Yes. Is everything that's going on going to be improved by firing Vrabel and Smith and bringing in some hot shot offensive system? Nope.

To use Sunday as an example, we had 5 drives in the first half. Those drives included a Dion Lewis fumble, an AJ Brown drop leading to an INT, Ryan Succop missing a fairly high percentage FG, and a strange drive where we gained like 40 yards in one series and didn't get a first down thanks to 3 offensive line penalties setting us back to a 2nd and 25.

Those are mistakes on the players. Sure, the coaches have to be accountable, and they have to hold the players accountable and replace them if need be, but we're not clamoring for AJ Brown and Taylor Lewan to be benched are we? We're clamoring for Arthur Smith to be fired.

No offensive system is going to be effective or score points when that is going on in 80% of your first half offensive drives. The system is far from great, but the players are killing themselves just as much as they're being held back by the system. 

The first half of Sunday's game is obviously a very small sample size, but I feel like that is basically the story of our entire season. Yeah, bad gameplanning is there, but so is the 4 missed FG game and the Bills game with 3 first down conversions dropped. The system may be flawed, but presumed talented players aren't executing the plays that are there.

Why are talented players not playing to the level that they should be? Is it a HC issue? The defense has played up to that level for the most part. Why aren't the offensive players? Does the offensive side of the ball just not respect Vrabel? Is Vrabel not involved enough in getting those players ready for Sunday as he is with the defensive players? Are the players that we're assuming are good just not as good as we think? Are guys like Lewan and AJ Brown overrated? So many variables.

[KingTitan]

1 hour ago, ragevsuall17 said:

 But if I can get Keenum at 3.5M, I'd take him over RT at 6+M.

 

I might not even watch the draft if we go into the season with Case Keenum as our starter.  That would be as blah as it can get. 

[SerenityNow]

14 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

 

I might not even watch the draft if we go into the season with Case Keenum as our starter.  That would be as blah as it can get. 

I'm curious if Amy/JRob feels the overall sense of dread that our fan base has right now. I'd think they'd like to make some sort of splash this offseason to at least get the fan base re-energized for the future. I have this gut feeling that Jake Fromm is ultimately going to be our guy, and I've gone back and forth on him a ton. Sometimes he looks like nothing more than a backup caliber NFL QB, and other times I see the characteristics that teams covet in a Franchise QB. I feel like he's the smartest pre snap QB in this draft, and that's nothing to scoff at. He's not going to wow you on tape with his arm strength (though he has enough to be successful), but he's poised in the pocket, accurate, and knows how to read a defense. He could easily end up being a middle of the road type of QB if he has a bad team around him which is what probably scares me the most about him, but there is also that part of me that thinks he could be really successful because of his football IQ. I wouldn't hate picking him, because I see the possibilities there.

[KingTitan]

1 minute ago, SerenityNow said:

I'm curious if Amy/JRob feels the overall sense of dread that our fan base has right now. I'd think they'd like to make some sort of splash this offseason to at least get the fan base re-energized for the future. I have this gut feeling that Jake Fromm is ultimately going to be our guy, and I've gone back and forth on him a ton. Sometimes he looks like nothing more than a backup caliber NFL QB, and other times I see the characteristics that teams covet in a Franchise QB. I feel like he's the smartest pre snap QB in this draft, and that's nothing to scoff at. He's not going to wow you on tape with his arm strength (though he has enough to be successful), but he's poised in the pocket, accurate, and knows how to read a defense. He could easily end up being a middle of the road type of QB if he has a bad team around him which is what probably scares me the most about him, but there is also that part of me that thinks he could be really successful because of his football IQ. I wouldn't hate picking him, because I see the possibilities there.

I spent a hour or so looking at Fromm last night. 
I came away "ok" with him.  I don't hate him, but the arm strength is a concern. Noticeable underthrown passes. But like you said, it seemed like he always knew where he was going with the ball.  

I've seen Drew Brees and Andy Dalton type. I don't know how those two are similar. lol

I feel like he is the perfect J-Rob type of guy.
Decisive. Leadership. Experienced. Winner. Captain. Not afraid of competition. Fended off 2 potential 1st round QBs (Fields and Eason). 

[KingTitan]

I was a Burrows, Eason and then............................................everyone else.

Now I'm Burrows, Fromm and Eason......................................everyone else.

More game watching and I'm loving how he deals the ball. Progressions. Seems most equipped to play in pros right away. 

Others might evolve into more and we might be seeing the best Fromm has, but I'm liking it more

[615finest]

Me being a UGA fan I don’t think Fromm is the type of player to take this team to another level but if we continue to run the same offense he’s probably exactly what we need. Great at presnap reads but when he’s forced to pass a lot he struggles. I think Fromm is more of a 2nd rounder. I was part of the UGA fans that was mad we let Fields walk because I felt he would take us to the next level which he is proving at Ohio State. 

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, 615finest said:

Me being a UGA fan I don’t think Fromm is the type of player to take this team to another level but if we continue to run the same offense he’s probably exactly what we need. Great at presnap reads but when he’s forced to pass a lot he struggles. I think Fromm is more of a 2nd rounder. I was part of the UGA fans that was mad we let Fields walk because I felt he would take us to the next level which he is proving at Ohio State. 

That's one thing I really like about Fromm.  He fits our current system, which is an elite defense and run game who won't lose you a game and can be productive consistently.  I mean, we get an offense that puts up what, 22 points, and we win almost every game.

[dtait93]

Who cares if Arthur isn't fired. Fromm isn't different than Mariota tbh. Dude is just a game manager.

[SerenityNow]

4 hours ago, KingTitan said:

I was a Burrows, Eason and then............................................everyone else.

Now I'm Burrows, Fromm and Eason......................................everyone else.

More game watching and I'm loving how he deals the ball. Progressions. Seems most equipped to play in pros right away. 

Others might evolve into more and we might be seeing the best Fromm has, but I'm liking it more

Something tells me that Fromm is going to have the easiest transition to the pros of this crop of QBs as long as he has the defense and run game which we should theoretically have. Smith won't be our OC next year. We'll have at the very least a new OC if Vrabel stays and hopefully it's a guy with some experience as a playcaller. I think he fits our team, and I think he'll come in compete and be a respected leader very early. I think his ability to read defenses pre snap puts him a step ahead of most of this QB class, and hopefully he'll only get better at that in the pros. Like I said earlier, he doesn't do a lot to absolutely wow you on tape from a physical perspective, but he's very efficient and I've liked what I've seen from him this year outside of that South Carolina game. 

Edited November 7, 2019 by SerenityNow

[615finest]

10 hours ago, Daniel said:

That's one thing I really like about Fromm.  He fits our current system, which is an elite defense and run game who won't lose you a game and can be productive consistently.  I mean, we get an offense that puts up what, 22 points, and we win almost every game.

Oh yea for sure. He won’t lose you a game by making mistakes. I just want to see him make the plays when the run game is working. He just won his first game when having to throw the ball 30 times. I believe he was 0-5 before then. I just want him to take over a game. But it’s no denying his competitiveness and leadership, fighting off 2 first round picks in Fields and Eason. 

[ragevsuall17]

15 hours ago, TitanSS said:

Just looking at a stat sheet has never been a great way of coming to a conclusion. You can use it to verify what you're seeing, but it doesn't always tell the story. 

In years past, we all agreed that Mariota played better than his statistic would indicate, and this year it was a given among most on here that he has played worse than his statistics would indicate. 

Admittedly, I didn't watch the 2nd half of Sunday's game and apparently Tannehill didn't play that well. I cannot comment as I haven't seen it. However, in my eyes, there has been a noticeable uptick in QB performance with Tannehill under center. I understand the final results may not be a lot better, but I think his performance has been.

I'm also not as inclined to believe that our system is so god awful that no one can succeed in it. Is Arthur Smith a good OC? Nah. Should he be fired? Yes. Is everything that's going on going to be improved by firing Vrabel and Smith and bringing in some hot shot offensive system? Nope.

To use Sunday as an example, we had 5 drives in the first half. Those drives included a Dion Lewis fumble, an AJ Brown drop leading to an INT, Ryan Succop missing a fairly high percentage FG, and a strange drive where we gained like 40 yards in one series and didn't get a first down thanks to 3 offensive line penalties setting us back to a 2nd and 25.

Those are mistakes on the players. Sure, the coaches have to be accountable, and they have to hold the players accountable and replace them if need be, but we're not clamoring for AJ Brown and Taylor Lewan to be benched are we? We're clamoring for Arthur Smith to be fired.

No offensive system is going to be effective or score points when that is going on in 80% of your first half offensive drives. The system is far from great, but the players are killing themselves just as much as they're being held back by the system. 

The first half of Sunday's game is obviously a very small sample size, but I feel like that is basically the story of our entire season. Yeah, bad gameplanning is there, but so is the 4 missed FG game and the Bills game with 3 first down conversions dropped. The system may be flawed, but presumed talented players aren't executing the plays that are there.

Why are talented players not playing to the level that they should be? Is it a HC issue? The defense has played up to that level for the most part. Why aren't the offensive players? Does the offensive side of the ball just not respect Vrabel? Is Vrabel not involved enough in getting those players ready for Sunday as he is with the defensive players? Are the players that we're assuming are good just not as good as we think? Are guys like Lewan and AJ Brown overrated? So many variables.

Whenever the same type of argument was made the first 5 weeks, dropped passes, missed assignments, bad officiating, etc... It was still the qb's fault. 

We are 2-1 in RT's games, but we're not far from 0-3...got lucky against the Chargers... And when we needed a 1st against the Bucs to put them away, we go 3 and out on back to back series to end the game. 

But now it's not the qb, and maybe not even the OC? And probably not the GM in your opinion... Even if nos it seems your shifting to your blame on the rest of the offensive roster?

It wasn't just the box score that says we haven't improved with the new qb, especially after his first game... Effeciency has suffered... The following is from mcm re:the bucs game:

Drive Success Rate

Drive success rate measures the percentage of 4-down series resulting in either a first down or a touchdown. Here are the Titans success rates broken out:

• First 6 Weeks: 65.1% (would currently rank 29th overall)
• Week 7: 76.9% (would currently rank 4th amongst season-long averages)
• Week 8: 60.8% (would currently rank 31st amongst season-long averages)

 

Yards Per Drive

Here are the Titans average yards gained on each drive broken out:

• First 6 Weeks: 24.88 yards per drive (29th overall)
• Week 7: 50.4 yards per drive (would currently rank 1st amongst season-long averages)
• Week 8: 20.67 yards per drive (would currently rank 31st amongst season-long averages)

 

Three and Outs

Three and outs had been a problem for the offense in the first six games, but not so much against the Chargers. Here’s the three-and-outs per drive broken out:

• First 6 games: Titans averaged a three-and-out once every 3.45 drives (20 three-and-outs on 69 drives), or 0.29 three-and-outs per drive (would currently rank 30th amongst season-long averages)
• Week 7: Titans had 0 three-and-outs on 8 drives (would currently rank 1st amongst season-long averages).
• Week 8: Titans had 4 three-and-outs on 12 drives, an average of one three and out every 3 drives, or .33 three-and-outs per drive (would currently rank 32nd amongst season-long averages).

 

Conclusions

Despite scoring 27 points, the Titans offense was objectively bad in this game. They hardly moved the ball and could not sustain possessions outside of the most crucial drive in the game.

They deserve credit for converting in the red zone... 

The Bucs entered this game with the 25th-ranked pass defense DVOA and the number 1 run defense DVOA. They were allowing more yards to wide receivers than any team in the league. Yet the Titans best receiver, Corey Davis, played his lowest percentage of snaps of any game yet this season at 62%, his first game of the season under 74%.

I’m just not understanding the logic behind these offensive game plans and personnel usage, and this actually has nothing to do with the 4th-down fake FG decision.

 

 

 

And here's the update after the last 3 weeks, which shows improvement over the first 6 weeks, but not significantly so, especially when just looking at the past 2 games. https://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2019/11/6/20948159/week-9-offensive-efficiency-report

RT has been a better fit in this offense, whatever this offense is... His strengths are better suited to make up for the deficiencies on this particular offense. Mariota just had no confidence, we can agree to that... It's a behavior he learned/developed the past 3 years... From his injuries, the revolving door at OC, etc... He all agree he's done here... But it doesn't necessarily mean RT has been markedly better. 

And he nor anyone else will have the same challenges until the OC and OL coach, at the very least, are replaced. 

Edited November 7, 2019 by ragevsuall17

[titans0021]

This is not a Marcus pity party post, just find it hilarious.

 

[ragevsuall17]

14 minutes ago, titans0021 said:

This is not a Marcus pity party post, just find it hilarious.

 

 

 

Tanking for Tanny!!

The whole team was in on it!

[deeluxx3]

I don’t see Fromm having much success in the NFL. Seems like he’s a bit tapped out on his potential and athleticism 

 

I would hate the pick. I’d root for him, obviously, but would hate the pick

[KingTitan]

4 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

I don’t see Fromm having much success in the NFL. Seems like he’s a bit tapped out on his potential and athleticism 

 

I would hate the pick. I’d root for him, obviously, but would hate the pick

I do feel like he has reached his ceiling. Like he has nowhere to go. I feel like he has been the same player ever since he became starter. 
Not bad for a college player but how does that project to NFL.