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dtait93

Jon Robinson

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*THIS IS NOT A FIRE JON ROBINSON THREAD - RATHER A PLACE TO CRITIQUE OR APPLAUD MOVES JON ROBINSON HAS MADE*

Let's start with the draft. Below is a key for the picks Robinson has made from 2016-2018. I doubt we'll all come to a 100% complete consensus, but I think we can agree overall in general the direction these players (and drafts in total) are headed/have arrived.

+ = Good Pick

- = Bust

/ = Trending Up 

\ = Trending Down

 

2016

Jack Conklin: \

Kevin Dodd: -

Austin Johnson: \

Derrick Henry: +

Kevin Byard: +

Tajae Sharpe: \

LeShaun Sims: +

Sebastian Tretola: -

Aaron Wallace: -

Kalan Reed: -

2017

Corey Davis: \

Adoree Jackson: \

Taywan Taylor: -

Jonnu Smith: /

Jayon Brown: +

Corey Levin: -

Josh Carraway: -

Brad Seaton: -

Khalfani Muhammad: -

2018

Rashaan Evans: /

Harold Landry: /

Dane Cruikshank: /

Luke Falk: -

 

Total:

Good Picks = 4

Busts = 10 (*I'd only count 2 as relevant in Taylor and Dodd*)

Trending Up = 4

Trending Down = 5 

 

 

 

Next, let's look at what he's done in free agency. Again, I doubt we all come to a complete 100% consensus, but overall I think we'll agree.

Bold = Good Addition

No Bold = Bad Addition/No Impact

2016

Matt Cassel, Rishard MatthewsBen Jones, Sean Spence, Brice McCain, Valentino Blake, Rashad Johnson.

*DeMarco Murray *Dennis Kelly

2017

Daren Bates, Johnathon Cyprien, Demontre Hurst, Tim Lelito, Logan Ryan, Brynden Trawick, Eric Weems, Sylvester Williams.

2018

Xavier Su'a-filo, Blaine Gabbert, Kevin Pamphile, Josh Kline, Dion Lewis, Malcolm Butler, Will Compton, Kenny Vacarro

 

Total

10 Good Additions

15 Bad Additions/No Impact

 

 

Overall, I think Robinson's done a good job of adding talent to take us from bad to average. The problem is that he is stuck there. Getting rid of Mularkey I believe was a good move but so far the move to hire Vrabel in his place makes it a wash. I believe Robinson and Vrabel made a mistake by labeling the season, "Good to Great." The reason being is because this team has never been good in the first place. It is average, and has been average going on 4 years now. This team should have never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever thought of themselves as good. The mindset of this team going in to this year is the exact same mindset it had after starting 3-1 last year with the win over Philly...and then......3 straight L's and the team's suddenly below average sitting at 3-4. Good to great this year? It's week 6 and your not even a good team, your not even an average team, you are a below average team sitting at 2-3.

As the future unfolds, I think it will show that he made a fatal flaw by hiring a defensive minded HC. Continuity turned out to be an even bigger issue than we ever imagined after LaFleur (who tbh wasn't even that great anyways - another indictment on Vrabel which is a direct indictment on Robinson) departed. So much so that it forced Vrabel in to hiring a TE coach who learned under Munchak, Whisenhunt, Robiskie, and Mularkey. If Marcus doesn't get a shiny new contract, do we really believe Arthur Smith is the guy to coach up whoever our new rookie QB is into our franchise QB? If he isn't, then wasn't he really just hired to try and get Mariota on track? And if he is, won't he just get poached?

In order for this franchise to take the next step the same thing may have to happen to Robinson that happened to Mularkey. Robinson's done an impressive job turning the team around, similar to how Mularkey did an impressive job turning the locker room around...but how long does he get to be the guy that tries to get this team to the next step?

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7 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

As the future unfolds, I think it will show that he made a fatal flaw by hiring a defensive minded HC.

yeah, this was obvious from the get-go and a truly bizarre decision if we really wanted to prioritize marcus's development.

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At some point, this all has to come back to Robinson. He came into the organization with a ton of draft capital, a great cap situation and he was eventually allowed to choose his own head coach, and we’ve been stagnant for four years. He fired a head coach that was coming off of a playoff win and his hand-picked coach is 11-10. I could go further into it, and probably will at some point, but I think that sums things up.

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The state of the roster is far from bad, and he's solely responsible for that. That's hard to ignore. The OL needs fixing, that's for sure, but I think it has way more to do with coaching holding it back. Lewan is a solid starting LT. Jones is decent enough of a C, and I think Saffold is much better than he has shown so far. Conklin is debatable, I think with the right coaching and within the right scheme you could survive very well with him at RT, and Davis is only a rookie who missed virtually all of offseason. He was beyond terrible yesterday, but it's too early to tell if he can be the answer. Beyond that, the only other major question mark that remains is the QB spot.

The maybe major thing that's starting to turn for the worse against him, is the hiring of Vrabel. Which I absolutely hated at first. But he was a player's coach and that fitted the philosophy of what they set out to build. He looked energetic, his hands-on approach was easy to fall for. And the team didn't look bad at all his first year. But now, for as long as I've listened to him lately, he just sounds highly overwhelmed by what it takes to properly coach a team and manage an NFL game. Some of his recent game decisions reflect that as well. I don't think I buy it anymore that he's the guy to take us forward. It very much appears that his MO is to work to bounce back repeatedly, rather than build any type of consistency, and it's just not that cool anymore. Now, if this team continues to implode, I'll be waiting for Robinson to put an end to this experiment as soon the season ends. Maybe even earlier if we fall out of playoff contention and we want a shot at Riley. If he doesn't, we'll know more about whether he's the right guy to continue to manage this team in the future. Until then, he has done way more good than bad, which is why I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

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Robinson in his own way is Mularkey. He brought us out the cellar, but now we are back to the lower middle where Fisher left us.   

He has failed to identify offensive line talent. 

Ben Jones. Jack Conklin. Roger saffold. He thought Kline was worth a big deal. 

Ben Jones might be the best of the bunch and that's not saying much.  And the Dennis Kelly trade was excellent. 

The only thing that gives him grace is that he hasn't picked his own QB and I don't know if I can trust him to do that. 

I know Vrabel will be here at least until he picks a QB and same with Robinson. 

Robinson needs someone to help him identify offensive line talent. I think that is his biggest flaw. 

 

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4 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

Robinson in his own way is Mularkey. He brought us out the cellar, but now we are back to the lower middle where Fisher left us.   

He has failed to identify offensive line talent. 

Ben Jones. Jack Conklin. Roger saffold. He thought Kline was worth a big deal. 

Ben Jones might be the best of the bunch and that's not saying much.  And the Dennis Kelly trade was excellent. 

The only thing that gives him grace is that he hasn't picked his own QB and I don't know if I can trust him to do that. 

I know Vrabel will be here at least until he picks a QB and same with Robinson. 

Robinson needs someone to help him identify offensive line talent. I think that is his biggest flaw. 

 

Kline has been a solid contributor so far for the Vikings. He's helping them turn into one of the most dangerous rushing offenses in the league. And he's had good years for us. Saffold looked much better than this on the Rams. I know in the end some of this will reflect poorly on Robinson as well, but there's really enough evidence to suggest that it might be more of an issue of coaching and scheming to put those guys in a position to succeed, than it is scouting them.

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I can’t say Adoree is trending down cause again he’s a solid corner i forever stand on that till I see his play decline. He hasn’t been the punt returner we hope nor shutdown playmaking corner but at the end of the day it’s a passing league & so far I don’t even think he’s given up a 100 yards or more than 1 TD. Corey Davis my opinion is handicap due to inconsistent QB play offensive line & play calling, now he sure as hell hasn’t lived up to #5 pick he’s shown at times he can get open on any corner with the best of em. We as a Offense are stuck in the Stone Age as 1 of y’all said we basically had a corvette in Mariota & used him like a pick up truck.

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17 minutes ago, TitanRedd said:

I can’t say Adoree is trending down cause again he’s a solid corner i forever stand on that till I see his play decline. He hasn’t been the punt returner we hope nor shutdown playmaking corner but at the end of the day it’s a passing league & so far I don’t even think he’s given up a 100 yards or more than 1 TD. Corey Davis my opinion is handicap due to inconsistent QB play offensive line & play calling, now he sure as hell hasn’t lived up to #5 pick he’s shown at times he can get open on any corner with the best of em. We as a Offense are stuck in the Stone Age as 1 of y’all said we basically had a corvette in Mariota & used him like a pick up truck.

In relation to his draft position and the reason why he was drafted, he is definitely trending down. He is a bad punt returner which is why he went so high in the first place, and Butler and Ryan also always play more than him. I also recall him giving up like 3 TD’s to Hilton last year. He got abused that game lol.

Davis is trending down as well for both the reasons you mentioned.

Neither player is bad though. But they definitely aren’t living up to 5th and 18th overall picks.

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I don't think Conklin, Davis, or Jackson are trending down. Davis is a good player on a team with very little outside passing game. Jackson is a solid CB that feels like a bad pick because Tre White was available and he blows as a return man. Conklin has looked good a lot this year. Interior OL isn't giving the QB a pocket to step into making the OTs jobs very difficult.

I would bring back all 3 if their contracts were up today. Jackson won't be paid like a #1 CB, but he's a solid NFL starter. Davis will never be Julio, but almost no other WR is, so to expect that just because we had the #5 overall pick and couldn't trade out of it is crazy. Conklin looks like an above average NFL RT and I don't think resigning him is even a question with what he's shown this season. He's coming back.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

In relation to his draft position and the reason why he was drafted, he is definitely trending down. He is a bad punt returner which is why he went so high in the first place, and Butler and Ryan also always play more than him. I also recall him giving up like 3 TD’s to Hilton last year. He got abused that game lol.

Davis is trending down as well for both the reasons you mentioned.

Neither player is bad though. But they definitely aren’t living up to 5th and 18th overall picks.

The big play he gave to Hilton Byard blew coverage. But that’s facts he struggles with WR that can match his athletic ability & I agree he shouldn’t went over Tradariois White, though I believe the Titans thought they were getting 2 for 1 player because of his return abilities but I still can’t say he’s trending down because he’s not a bad corner. We play a lot of nickel & last yr Butler was so bad at the beginning it was Adoree & Logan in base defense. Now aside from Will Fuller, TY Hilton Antonio Brown & Tyreek Hill what other receivers have str8 up beaten him, week after week

Edited by TitanRedd

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4 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

I don't think Conklin, Davis, or Jackson are trending down. Davis is a good player on a team with very little outside passing game. Jackson is a solid CB that feels like a bad pick because Tre White was available and he blows as a return man. Conklin has looked good a lot this year. Interior OL isn't giving the QB a pocket to step into making the OTs jobs very difficult.

I would bring back all 3 if their contracts were up today. Jackson won't be paid like a #1 CB, but he's a solid NFL starter. Davis will never be Julio, but almost no other WR is, so to expect that just because we had the #5 overall pick and couldn't trade out of it is crazy. Conklin looks like an above average NFL RT and I don't think resigning him is even a question with what he's shown this season. He's coming back.

Finally some truth on this forum Today 🙌🏽 But I do think Conklin should be brought back to compete at guard with Davis next season & kelly at RT. Lewis needs to be cut to free up cap. Ryan extended & DaQuon pay cut still can’t believe he makes 7 mill for nothing 

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Great first post 

 

I’m ready to fire Jon Robinson. Call it knee jerk, but we have totally flat lined after he took us out of the cellar. Time to scrap this guy, Vrabel too, and hire someone who at least WANTS to bring us into the 21st century 

 

I know a lot of people love her because she’s done good for the city, but this is AAS’s true test as an owner. Will you fire the GM you picked? Come on Miss Amyyyy

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5 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

Great first post 

 

I’m ready to fire Jon Robinson. Call it knee jerk, but we have totally flat lined after he took us out of the cellar. Time to scrap this guy, Vrabel too, and hire someone who at least WANTS to bring us into the 21st century 

 

I know a lot of people love her because she’s done good for the city, but this is AAS’s true test as an owner. Will you fire the GM you picked? Come on Miss Amyyyy

I doubted because she believes in continuity like her father which is why he kept fisher around so long 

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6 minutes ago, TitanRedd said:

I doubted because she believes in continuity like her father which is why he kept fisher around so long 

Perhaps. But Fisher MAYBE lasted about 2-3 years too long. 

AAS wants to build a “family” culture, which doesn’t necessarily equate to a “winning” culture. All of a sudden new uniforms and a successful draft don’t mean as much. I’ve been saying she’s a problem since she hired JROB with the mandate that Mularkey would be coach. She needs to put her GM and HC on notice now, because this simply isn’t acceptable 

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Posted (edited)

Fire Jon Robinson? Yes, that is a very knee-jerk reaction. We went from one of the ****tiest defenses in the NFL to a top 5 for the 2nd year in a row with the pieces he added. Not to mention from 5-27 in the two years before him to 9-7 3 straight years since. Offense has play-makers and is set on the ends of the OL. Interior OL could probably replace all 3 honestly, so you can hate him there, but Jesus.

The talent is there it just needs to execute. The defense is executing on all cylinders each week. It's the offenses turn.

I'm starting to wonder if Taylor Lewan and the frat boy "for the boys" attitude is having a negative effect. They need to try being for the team and shutting up and playing football.

But honestly, all any of us are doing is looking for somewhere to point fingers. When it comes down to it, we had a number of chances to win that game and all we had to do was execute and we didn't on numerous occasions. Talent wise, we could very easily be 5-0, so Jon Robinson adding talent isn't the issue.

Edited by TitanSS

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