Well does Fatty Patricia get fired?

[Sllim Pickens]

12 hours ago, Superduperman said:

Because it's the biggest and most obvious cliche 

I'm guessing we would end up as disappointed as UM fans have been with him.  We are doing a great job of finishing third or worse in our division without JH. 

[Karnage84]

My guess is that Pasqualoni gets fired along with the ST co-ordinator. Patricia takes over the play-calling and brings in a former Pats defensive assistant as his DC. 

Quinn and Patricia will be given until week 6ish in 2020. If it's the same old, same old, Patricia is gone for sure. Stafford will get traded and possibly a few other pieces like Marvin Jones. Quinn has hit on a number of pieces but he has had a couple misses (as they all do). 

[cp0k2]

2 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

My guess is that Pasqualoni gets fired along with the ST co-ordinator. Patricia takes over the play-calling and brings in a former Pats defensive assistant as his DC. 

Quinn and Patricia will be given until week 6ish in 2020. If it's the same old, same old, Patricia is gone for sure. Stafford will get traded and possibly a few other pieces like Marvin Jones. Quinn has hit on a number of pieces but he has had a couple misses (as they all do). 

My worst nightmare right there. If they stay, this team will be bad next year but not bad enough to get a legitimate franchise QB in the draft.

Quinn and Patricia need to go on black Monday. If they are brought back, the only thing I'll be happy with is the #1 pick in 2021 and a new (hopefully competent) GM and coach to start a rebuild. But with a healthy Stafford next year there's no shot at that.

I'm so tired of making bad hires. Bad GMs that hire bad coaches, it's a never-ending cycle.

[Karnage84]

3 minutes ago, cp0k2 said:

My worst nightmare right there. If they stay, this team will be bad next year but not bad enough to get a legitimate franchise QB in the draft.

Quinn and Patricia need to go on black Monday. If they are brought back, the only thing I'll be happy with is the #1 pick in 2021 and a new (hopefully competent) GM and coach to start a rebuild. But with a healthy Stafford next year there's no shot at that.

I'm so tired of making bad hires. Bad GMs that hire bad coaches, it's a never-ending cycle.

I have to disagree with you on that. If we're assuming that week 6 is the sweet spot (it's possible to be earlier but not likely to be later), the scenario is either

Winning Record - 6-0, 5-1, 4-2: The team has corrected some of the issues of this year and things are looking up

Losing Record - 3-3, 2-4, 1-5: Patricia is likely fired with Quinn more than likely following closely behind him. Stafford gets traded along with a few other pieces and the team hits reset

 

If they're winning, that's a good thing. If they're losing, then they'll cut bait and move onto the next duo. They probably finish the season 3-13 or worse. They'll be in line for a top 4 pick in a draft that will include Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields. 

[Nnivolcm]

7 hours ago, Superduperman said:

And if anyone thinks they're winning out, you're out of your mind 

I wasn't saying I think they'd win out. I was just pointing out their ceiling was worse than "not good enough" less than 2 years ago. 

[Superduperman]

4 hours ago, Nnivolcm said:

I wasn't saying I think they'd win out. I was just pointing out their ceiling was worse than "not good enough" less than 2 years ago. 

Yes I know that. That's why I said "and." Not very complicated 

[Superduperman]

8 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

My guess is that Pasqualoni gets fired along with the ST co-ordinator. Patricia takes over the play-calling and brings in a former Pats defensive assistant as his DC. 

Quinn and Patricia will be given until week 6ish in 2020. If it's the same old, same old, Patricia is gone for sure. Stafford will get traded and possibly a few other pieces like Marvin Jones. Quinn has hit on a number of pieces but he has had a couple misses (as they all do). 

Nobody, not even the Lions, goes into a season planning to give their coach the first half of the season and then maybe fire them. That would never happen.

Tell me what Quinn has hit on. Golladay and presumably Frank Ragnow.

[Karnage84]

13 hours ago, Superduperman said:

Nobody, not even the Lions, goes into a season planning to give their coach the first half of the season and then maybe fire them. That would never happen.

Tell me what Quinn has hit on. Golladay and presumably Frank Ragnow.

No one goes into the season with those kinds of expectations. However, they aren't going to give him a super long leash either. Washington didn't go into the season with the plan to let Jay Gruden go when they did. The team stunk and was falling apart. They made the decision to move on and begin their process to find their next HC. 

We're all forgetting that this is a team that has been competitive in every game but one that they lost before Stafford was injured. A lot of the wins were also not pretty. That is something that the Lions can build on next season, assuming they keep the current regime in place. 

I don't think you can weigh the 2017 draft class like you can with the 2018 and 2019 because he was scouting for a different scheme than he preferred. 

2018

Ragnow - 74.0

Kerryon (pre-injury)

Walker - 75.0

Hand - (pre-injury)

2019

Tavai - 67.6

Oruwariye - 85.0 (1 game sample)

That's 6/13 picks, which is just sub 0.500. He's not blowing the world up but he's hitting on what an average to good GM hits on. 

 

[Superduperman]

How can you possibly count Kerryon as a hit (pre injury)? First of all, we are now post injury, twice, and second of all he had an injury history at Auburn which Quinn rolled the dice on ignoring and obviously lost.

As for anyone on the defense, Hand, Walker, or anyone else, call me when they're key parts of a defense that doesn't suck walnuts. Until then they're all busts.

[Karnage84]

55 minutes ago, Superduperman said:

How can you possibly count Kerryon as a hit (pre injury)? First of all, we are now post injury, twice, and second of all he had an injury history at Auburn which Quinn rolled the dice on ignoring and obviously lost.

As for anyone on the defense, Hand, Walker, or anyone else, call me when they're key parts of a defense that doesn't suck walnuts. Until then they're all busts.

He's been the best RB they've had in a long time. There are guys that have injuries in college and it isn't an issue at the NFL level. There are guys that haven't had an injury and then get really banged up in the NFL. That pick might not work out because of injuries but don't discount the talent when he's been on the field. A lot of us had written off Dalvin Cook prior to this year. He's looking pretty good for the Vikings this year and is a big part of their success. I still think we need to add runners behind him as it'd be foolish to go into a season expecting to lean on KJ. I still don't count it as a loss. 

Our entire defense has had a ton of injuries, principally on the defensive line. It doesn't discount what Hand showed he could do last year and even this year. We're talking about individual pieces, not the sum of the parts. 

[diehardlionfan]

1 hour ago, Superduperman said:

How can you possibly count Kerryon as a hit (pre injury)? First of all, we are now post injury, twice, and second of all he had an injury history at Auburn which Quinn rolled the dice on ignoring and obviously lost.

As for anyone on the defense, Hand, Walker, or anyone else, call me when they're key parts of a defense that doesn't suck walnuts. Until then they're all busts.

It doesn’t seem to matter which regime is in place they take a RB with an injury history. SMH

Why did this defence do so well against the run last year once they brought in Snacks and done so poorly this season? The last number of games injuries have impacted them but even from game 1 they had problems. They spent big time on D and as you said, they suck walnuts.

[Karnage84]

2 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said:

It doesn’t seem to matter which regime is in place they take a RB with an injury history. SMH

Why did this defence do so well against the run last year once they brought in Snacks and done so poorly this season? The last number of games injuries have impacted them but even from game 1 they had problems. They spent big time on D and as you said, they suck walnuts.

Hand has been injured and was a noticeable difference on the DL when he came back, although he wasn't fully healthy; Snacks hasn't been the same guy as last year IMO; A'Shawn has been inconsistent even though he's in a contract year; Daniels has been in-and-out with injury; Flowers missed a ton of time with injury and is only now settling into things. 

I think it's a combination of everything that has led to this defense being so bad - injuries, coaching, scheme and talent. They had a ton of guys already banged up coming into the season; they didn't have the pieces in place to handle the absence of the starters; the coaches couldn't get the guys prepared to the level they needed to be to outplay their lack of talent; they kept rushing 3 guys and gave QB's enough time to watch an episode of The Big Bang Theory in between throws. 

[SimbaWho]

I mean reasoning like Karnage gives are honestly why Lions fans don't deserve a winning team/franchise. 

Grasping for straws now at this point. 

You don't let losers who hired losers fire their losers and go hire more losers... Whats going on here? 

It's not just one aspect of the defense either.... Coleman has regressed after a hot start, Slay is rolling through the motions, run defense took a huge step back, pass rush is honestly a complete joke... Then you spend a ton of resources on TE and get below average production, Run blocking sucks, and the issues you had last year at oline positions are still the same issues. Without Stafford covering the teams/coaches ***... they're being shown for what they are/have. Which isn't much.

This team lacks so much depth everywhere, and such a terrible defense that easily, they are the worst team in football without Stafford running the show. I've been on this regime since the hire ( coaches/GM's ). Quinn fired a guy that went to the playoffs TWICE with us and had a winning record. I agreed with the firing, I was willing to risk it, but what I didn't know then was that he'd go and hire Matt Patricia. I literally thought zero chance of that. Josh McDaniels was more realistic than him imo, back then. I wanted then, and still kinda want now Marvin Lewis, the former Coach of the Cincinnati Bengals. What he did there for that long with that franchise was impressive to me. He managed crazy personality's well and almost always had good coordinators and coaches around him. Didn't have the best talent at QB with Dalton but consistently got the Bengals in the playoff mix for many years. Couldn't win one but was solid and drafted well too. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by SimbaWho

[Karnage84]

16 minutes ago, SimbaWho said:

I mean reasoning like Karnage gives are honestly why Lions fans don't deserve a winning team/franchise. 

Grasping for straws now at this point. 

You don't let losers who hired losers fire their losers and go hire more losers... Whats going on here? 

It's not just one aspect of the defense either.... Coleman has regressed after a hot start, Slay is rolling through the motions, run defense took a huge step back, pass rush is honestly a complete joke... Then you spend a ton of resources on TE and get below average production, Run blocking sucks, and the issues you had last year at oline positions are still the same issues. Without Stafford covering the teams/coaches ***... they're being shown for what they are/have. Which isn't much.

This team lacks so much depth everywhere, and such a terrible defense that easily, they are the worst team in football without Stafford running the show. I've been on this regime since the hire ( coaches/GM's ). Quinn fired a guy that went to the playoffs TWICE with us and had a winning record. I agreed with the firing, I was willing to risk it, but what I didn't know then was that he'd go and hire Matt Patricia. I literally thought zero chance of that. Josh McDaniels was more realistic than him imo, back then. I wanted then, and still kinda want now Marvin Lewis, the former Coach of the Cincinnati Bengals. What he did there for that long with that franchise was impressive to me. He managed crazy personality's well and almost always had good coordinators and coaches around him. Didn't have the best talent at QB with Dalton but consistently got the Bengals in the playoff mix for many years. Couldn't win one but was solid and drafted well too. 

It's not reasoning, I'm just being realistic about why things have gotten to where they are. The Lions are the same team that nearly beat the Chiefs and were in first place of the NFC North. They're also the same team that is on track to be a top 5 pick next year. The 49ers were 4-12 last year. There were talks about Shanahan possibly being let go as the experiment wasn't working. Their defensive line was atrocious despite all of the high picks invested there. One year and a Bosa later, they're one of the best teams and defenses in the league. 

The pass-rush (or lack of) is the biggest issue and has bled into other areas of the defense. The secondary is going to get picked apart when guys have 4-5 seconds to make throws. 

Offensively, this has been the least of the issues but it's still a problem. TJ Hockenson is still a rookie TE. Maybe he's on the road to a future HOF/ROH career or maybe he's going to wind up as Ebron 2.0. This is what happens with rookie TE's. We have consistently had an issue with the OL, principally in the run game. At least Stafford has been kept pretty clean. 

McDaniels was never really going to be an option here. It was either Vrabel or Patricia. Vrabel came with his own risks but he's done a good job in Tennessee despite lesser QB talent. 

For the record - I'm as unhappy as anyone else here with the way that the year has gone. I made a point of watching every game for the first six weeks with my newborn son. Now I'll watch it if I'm at home and just doing some stuff around the house. Even if the Lions lose out, the only way that I see them firing the whole coaching staff is if the team quits on them. If they're fighting and coming up short, I still think that ownership gives them some time to show the direction of the program. 

[Superduperman]

Quote

I made a point of watching every game for the first six weeks with my newborn son.

OK. this makes more sense now.

I'm not going to go on and on about this. You're still too young to know better. It will take 10 or 15 years for you to understand. But if Martha dies and Sheila takes over as owner for the foreseeable future, you will get there.