5 Up, 5 down - Game 1

[Johnny Nix]

Positives:

1. I had really good seats (50 yard line) to watch the dumpster fire

2. Gio looked good in his opportunities, should just go forward with Mixon and Gio as a tandem.

3. Cody Core got good separation on a few plays, if Andy had time/actually could hit him, he would have had a good day

4. Defense I thought played well given the offenses blunders.

5. Young players like Vigil and Lawson I thought looked good

Negatives: (far more than just 5) but...

1. Wasted money on those tickets

2. Offensive line was offensive to my eyes

3. Andy Dalton's decision making when pressured

4. Offensive line again

5. Penalites and Marvins (once again) inability to prepare his teams for big games.

[Futbudds]

Too bad our D will be on the field a TON this year.

[INbengalfan]

8 hours ago, theJ said:

The first 2 INT's there were no pressure.  The tipped ball going to AJ and the one in the end zone.  He had clean pockets there, no push up the middle, and no one coming around the edge.  I watched them a few times because you mentioned there was pressure.  I can maybe post gif's later if i have time.

 

I didn't want to make it a 2 up and 10 down thread haha.  I'm not full of that much negativity.  

I'd give Ogbuehi 2 more weeks, then pull the plug.  Smith showed enough at LT in the preseason that i'd move him there.  Leave Fisher for the moment.  Either way you cut it, the line is going to be a disaster all season.

I sit on the home sideline around the 20.  I thought there was maybe more, but you are probably right.

 

I'm not on the "let's blame all of it on Dalton" train.  

[Carson4MVP]

2 hours ago, INbengalfan said:

I sit on the home sideline around the 20.  I thought there was maybe more, but you are probably right.

 

I'm not on the "let's blame all of it on Dalton" train.  

He had 4 turnovers in the endzone/redzone. 2 picks, the fumble and a turnover on downs when he wouldn't even give an offensive player a chance to make a play. Yeah, there was some pressure on some of the plays, but for ****s sake, it's the NFL... EVERY QB has to face some pressure. He has to be able to move his feet in the pocket and shift with the pocket. Kizer showed more presence in the pocket than Andy ever has. As for the tipped passes, he needs to do a better job with his throwing lanes. I'm done with the laundry list of excuses for Andy. He's just a sub-par QB. If everything goes his way, he can win a game. But he cannot elevate a team. I don't care what his one really good season had. 

[MrCincinnati]

5 hours ago, johndeere1707 said:

Positives:

5. Young players like Vigil and Lawson I thought looked good

Not sure what your were looking at yesterday. Vigil was really awful. Yeah he played all of the defensive snaps, but he was the worst player on that defense from what I saw, next to Vincent Rey. He's suppose to be good in coverage, but I didn't see it. Other than that though, the defense did its job. 

[MrCincinnati]

2 hours ago, INbengalfan said:

I sit on the home sideline around the 20.  I thought there was maybe more, but you are probably right.

 

I'm not on the "let's blame all of it on Dalton" train.  

The game shouldn't all of his fault, but this is a problem that we now finally see Dalton getting exposed for what he really is. He has no OL, no offensive coordinator to call plays, things he had to help him all of these years. The good QB's always find a way to rise above the problems that surround him. Anything can happen, but I'm 99.99 percent sure that Dalton is not one of those guys. By the end of the year, he's gonna pull a Carson Palmer if things continue to go the way they are.

[INbengalfan]

17 minutes ago, MrCincinnati said:

The game shouldn't all of his fault, but this is a problem that we now finally see Dalton getting exposed for what he really is. He has no OL, no offensive coordinator to call plays, things he had to help him all of these years. The good QB's always find a way to rise above the problems that surround him. Anything can happen, but I'm 99.99 percent sure that Dalton is not one of those guys. By the end of the year, he's gonna pull a Carson Palmer if things continue to go the way they are.

So let me get this straight.  he has no OL, his play-calling OC is bad, and now we are seeing that Dalton has been exposed for what he is???  So what is he?  Under-protected?  handicapped by his OC?  Those first two sentences are in such contradiction to one another.  

Should he just say screw it and throw caution to the wind and do whatever he wants?  I don't think the word Mutiny would sit well with Lewis, his head coach, or Brown, the man who, you know, signs his checks.

 

Dalton had a bad game.  The line was worse.  So from where I was sitting, i thought a third pass was tipped for an INT.  

 

You rip on Burfict at every chance because you don't like him, but you attack the very opposite personality in Dalton.  Name a great QB who overcame a conservative head coach, a Peter-Principled OC surviving on his father's name, an offensive line whose average PFF score was a 38  (fisher was highest at 43, I sh!t you not), and wide receivers who stand around when the play got busted? 

[theJ]

This is why I like Dalton

 

[theJ]

1 hour ago, Carson4MVP said:

He had 4 turnovers in the endzone/redzone. 2 picks, the fumble and a turnover on downs when he wouldn't even give an offensive player a chance to make a play. Yeah, there was some pressure on some of the plays, but for ****s sake, it's the NFL... EVERY QB has to face some pressure. He has to be able to move his feet in the pocket and shift with the pocket. Kizer showed more presence in the pocket than Andy ever has. As for the tipped passes, he needs to do a better job with his throwing lanes. I'm done with the laundry list of excuses for Andy. He's just a sub-par QB. If everything goes his way, he can win a game. But he cannot elevate a team. I don't care what his one really good season had. 

So on one hand we have people that see no wrong in anything Dalton can do. I don't see any of those here. On the other hand, we have people that see everything that went wrong as Dalton's fault and everyone around him doesn't matter or played well. 

I'm trying to be realistic here. Dalton is what he is. He made some mistakes that led to turnovers. So did other players. Which is what I said earlier. 

Crap in him all you want. He's way better than McCarran, so he's not being benched. You bench him for a guy that couldn't show well against third stringers and you may as well admit another 4 turnovers with this horrendous supporting cast. 

[Johnny Nix]

I honestly don't blame Dalton that much. Really the interception in the endzone and the missed deep ball to Core were the two bad plays on him. The rest in solely attribute to the O-line, and ultimately the coaching staff for not trying to mask the oline deficiencies 

[theJ]

1 hour ago, MrCincinnati said:

The game shouldn't all of his fault, but this is a problem that we now finally see Dalton getting exposed for what he really is. He has no OL, no offensive coordinator to call plays, things he had to help him all of these years. The good QB's always find a way to rise above the problems that surround him. Anything can happen, but I'm 99.99 percent sure that Dalton is not one of those guys. By the end of the year, he's gonna pull a Carson Palmer if things continue to go the way they are.

Pretty much no one can play well with what you described. Not even Terrific Tom Brady. I just don't understand this concept that a QB has to be amazing if the line sucks, the receivers aren't playing well and there's very little running game. 

[Johnny Nix]

6 minutes ago, johndeere1707 said:

I honestly don't blame Dalton that much. Really the interception in the endzone and the missed deep ball to Core were the two bad plays on him. The rest in solely attribute to the O-line, and ultimately the coaching staff for not trying to mask the oline deficiencies 

You can even tell in the interview he is trying to take all the blame because that's what a good leader does, but he knows he has a trash oline

 

and yes I quoted myself. Get over it

[THE DUKE]

It's hard to put too much of it on Dalton with this oline in front of him, but if we somehow end up with a top 2 pick, I want us to take Darnold or Rosen.  Let them sit a year and have Andy take the beating while we spend the rest of our draft in 2018 and top picks in 2019 on oline.

[theJ]

3 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

It's hard to put too much of it on Dalton with this oline in front of him, but if we somehow end up with a top 2 pick, I want us to take Darnold or Rosen.  Let them sit a year and have Andy take the beating while we spend the rest of our draft in 2018 and top picks in 2019 on oline.

I'm pretty sure this is the worst they're going to look.  I have a hard time imaging they'll end up with a top 2 pick, given that the defense was decent without Burfict and had to defend against 5 turnovers.  The offense isn't going to turn it over 5 times every game.  If they do, it'll set a new NFL record and i don't even need to look that up.

While i was optimistic for a 10 win season, i'm more realistic now and think it'll be closer to 7-8 wins.  At some point the rookies will gel, the line will be bad but not utterly atrocious, and Dalton will get his act together.  Thing is, outside of Ced and Fisher, everyone that bombed the team on Sunday has played and played well in the past.  The rookies did well-ish.  I can't actually believe that the vets will continue to look like dog turds the rest of the season.

[ochocinco4pres]

I am not sure how many people follow Joe Goodberry on twitter (but you should), but he just posted that the all 22 has a lot of evidence against Andy and Ken Zampese.