ClutchDJ Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Gmen said: Jones is a better pocket passer I don’t even think this is even true honestly. 44 minutes ago, Gmen said: Guys like Murray get figured out eventually. It happened with Vick, RG3, Kaep, Cam, and it will happen to Lamar Jackson and Murray too. That’d be true if Kyler wasn’t light years a better passer than all of them, but you just see him as a fast guy struggling to make reads. Lame, repetitive narrative, especially when it’s not even true when it comes to Kyler. Also, disrespectful to put Cam in the same list as Vick, Kaep, & RG3. 44 minutes ago, Gmen said: And of all the quarterbacks I listed, Murray has had the quietest entrance into the NFL. Has he? Or are you just not paying attention? Not to mention, he inherited a much worse team than all of them, probably with the exception of Cam. Edited November 15, 2019 by ClutchDJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 16 hours ago, Gmen said: Jones is a better pocket passer and we’ve seen that skill translate to long term success in the NFL much more than any other skill. Guys like Murray get figured out eventually. It happened with Vick, RG3, Kaep, Cam, and it will happen to Lamar Jackson and Murray too. And of all the quarterbacks I listed, Murray has had the quietest entrance into the NFL. Pretty ignorant post but then I remembered you're the guy in NFL Gen starting all the Dany Dimes hype threads. Lumping Murray, who was one of the better pocket passers we've seen come out of college this decade,along with Vick, RG3 and Kaep because of the way he looks and is fast is stupid. Murray is a pocket passer who happens to have 4.3 speed. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 On 11/11/2019 at 10:19 PM, Uncle Buck said: It just seems like almost all "running QB's" eventually pay a price. We are seeing it now with Cam Newton, and he is a LOT bigger and stronger than Murray. I wouldn't even classify Murray as a running QB. I think he's more of a scrambling type ala Russ Wilson. He's definitely not being asked to do what Kap, LJack and Newton were doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 hour ago, SilverNBlackFan said: Pretty ignorant post but then I remembered you're the guy in NFL Gen starting all the Dany Dimes hype threads. Lumping Murray, who was one of the better pocket passers we've seen come out of college this decade,along with Vick, RG3 and Kaep because of the way he looks and is fast is stupid. Murray is a pocket passer who happens to have 4.3 speed. He plays in a gimmicky offense, just likeKaep and RG3 did in their short careers. Go look at the clip DirtyDez posted on the first page. There are 5 plays, on 4 of them he's faking the handoff in a RPO type scenario. Every time I see this action it reminds of what Mike Shanahan ran with RG3, and Chip Kelly with Michael Vick. This is just another iteration of the same scheme. Lots of RPO, sucking up defenders with lateral passes, then catching them sleeping and hitting them over the top. History has shown this is not sustainable in the NFL. Whether Murray can succeed outside of this offense is a big question mark for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 21 hours ago, Gmen said: Jones is a better pocket passer and we’ve seen that skill translate to long term success in the NFL much more than any other skill. Guys like Murray get figured out eventually. It happened with Vick, RG3, Kaep, Cam, and it will happen to Lamar Jackson and Murray too. And of all the quarterbacks I listed, Murray has had the quietest entrance into the NFL. I'm not sure that he is a better pocket passer. Lumping Murray in with guys like Vick and company reeks of laziness here to me. I find it hilarious that you mentioned all those guys and then possibly left off one of the best comps for Murray, who also happens to be playing well and perhaps is the NFL MVP right now in Russell Wilson. Doesn't fit the narrative? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 7 hours ago, Gmen said: He plays in a gimmicky offense, just likeKaep and RG3 did in their short careers. Go look at the clip DirtyDez posted on the first page. There are 5 plays, on 4 of them he's faking the handoff in a RPO type scenario. Every time I see this action it reminds of what Mike Shanahan ran with RG3, and Chip Kelly with Michael Vick. This is just another iteration of the same scheme. Lots of RPO, sucking up defenders with lateral passes, then catching them sleeping and hitting them over the top. History has shown this is not sustainable in the NFL. Whether Murray can succeed outside of this offense is a big question mark for me. He is a good passer. If this scheme works, he should be able to thrive in it. If the scheme is figured out, I still think he can have a good career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 8 hours ago, Gmen said: He plays in a gimmicky offense, just likeKaep and RG3 did in their short careers. Go look at the clip DirtyDez posted on the first page. There are 5 plays, on 4 of them he's faking the handoff in a RPO type scenario. Every time I see this action it reminds of what Mike Shanahan ran with RG3, and Chip Kelly with Michael Vick. This is just another iteration of the same scheme. Lots of RPO, sucking up defenders with lateral passes, then catching them sleeping and hitting them over the top. History has shown this is not sustainable in the NFL. Whether Murray can succeed outside of this offense is a big question mark for me. Kap and RG3 were running run heavy read option pistol offenses. Kingsbury is running a air raid offense, which is like literally the complete opposite offense. And I watched the clip...every team in the NFL runs some form of the RPO...I don't know why you think that's exclusive to Murray or "athletic QBs" ..pocket QBs run the same play every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 8 hours ago, Gmen said: He plays in a gimmicky offense, just likeKaep and RG3 did in their short careers. Go look at the clip DirtyDez posted on the first page. There are 5 plays, on 4 of them he's faking the handoff in a RPO type scenario. Every time I see this action it reminds of what Mike Shanahan ran with RG3, and Chip Kelly with Michael Vick. This is just another iteration of the same scheme. Lots of RPO, sucking up defenders with lateral passes, then catching them sleeping and hitting them over the top. History has shown this is not sustainable in the NFL. Whether Murray can succeed outside of this offense is a big question mark for me. Man, you must of never watches Murray in college eh? He was the best pocket passer in college, legs completely aside. PFF even gave him a 94 pocket grade. Lumping Murray with RG3 and and Kaep is extremely ignorant. Even with Brady lega, Murray is a phenomenal passer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 On 11/15/2019 at 4:14 PM, Gmen said: Jones is a better pocket passer and we’ve seen that skill translate to long term success in the NFL much more than any other skill. Guys like Murray get figured out eventually. It happened with Vick, RG3, Kaep, Cam, and it will happen to Lamar Jackson and Murray too. And of all the quarterbacks I listed, Murray has had the quietest entrance into the NFL. Weird how they all have different playing styles and only have TWO things in common... that they’re athletic and that... well, it’s “interesting” that you have this opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 8 hours ago, diamondbull424 said: Weird how they all have different playing styles and only have TWO things in common... that they’re athletic and that... well, it’s “interesting” that you have this opinion. This has nothing to do with race. It only seems “interesting” because there hasn’t been a white quarterback athletic enough to play that style of offense in the NFL. Tebow fit the mold, but he was just a terrible passer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Gmen said: This has nothing to do with race. It only seems “interesting” because there hasn’t been a white quarterback athletic enough to play that style of offense in the NFL. Tebow fit the mold, but he was just a terrible passer. Josh Allen has similar athleticism as Cam Newton. Carson Wentz is an athlete that can throw. Steve Young was an athlete that can throw and possessed a similar style of play as a Kyler Murray. All with different playing styles of course and all with athleticism. So what I truly found interesting is no mention of those guys. It would be one thing if you compared Vick to Lamar or McNair to Newton or Wilson to Kyler or perhaps Young to Kaep (maybe)... I could see “similarities” in play style. It would be one thing to say that your opinion is based off of “x” QBs who have played similarly not working out... however you just listed a bunch of names with a varying degree of play styles and skill sets. Guys who have played in different offenses. I mean Lamar and Kaep are the only ones playing within a similar offense. Murray’s offense is COMPLETELY different than these other names. Lets not play dumb. There is only one similarity other than athleticism that all these guys have... and even that is a loose similarity. But as you were... your opinion is still interesting nonetheless. Good day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 ^^^ Either that or you don’t watch football and simply make sweeping generalizations about players based off of their Madden statistics. Either or. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 @diamondbull424 I compared Murray to other athletic quarterbacks that tried to play college style offenses in the NFL. And while there are several other athletic quarterbacks in the league such as Allen, Wentz, Dak, Wilson, even Daniel Jones, they’re playing in much more traditional and sustainable offensive schemes. You busting out the race card to defend your quarterback is, quite frankly, very immature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Also interesting that you compare Murray to Wilson. They have three things in common : They’re athletic, they play in the NFCW, and of course... they’re short. Sizeism at its finest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonChigurh Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 58 minutes ago, Gmen said: @diamondbull424 I compared Murray to other athletic quarterbacks that tried to play college style offenses in the NFL. And while there are several other athletic quarterbacks in the league such as Allen, Wentz, Dak, Wilson, even Daniel Jones, they’re playing in much more traditional and sustainable offensive schemes. You busting out the race card to defend your quarterback is, quite frankly, very immature Dont ever bring up the "race card" on this forum ever again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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