The Original Pokemon Mafia - We're all losers.

[SwAg]

12 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

This is an interesting info based on Swags theory a few games ago. 

Thanks for this post, it made me read the rules

Orca - I dont see any reason to go the "woe is me" route to start the game aside from trying to skate by. 

 

11 hours ago, MWil23 said:

I think Nacho's claim comes off as genuine personally. 

I still find it funny that aside from you omitting Malf earlier, somehow Pickle not yet posting has gotten him dropped off of your list from two hours ago.

 

10 hours ago, MWil23 said:

LOL

I’m sorry that I believe Nacho on Day 1.

So, I don't think Nacho is scum based on this.

For a start, I am confident that matts is scum, and with that first post I believe he is alluding to at least the Final Fantasy game.  So, it seems like he is trying to leading Nacho to the forefront for me to attack him like I attacked Forge and others for commentary that could be construed as incriminating (related to theme/role) in pre/early game. 

That strikes me as trying to position a conflict for Nacho, who was already garnering votes, and nudging me into doing the heavy lifting on it.  Either I do it, and Nacho likely flips Town, or I do not do it, and Matts is able to draw a contrast later (since I did it previously as Town) and try to push us as together.

I'm sure matts is going to be upset that I'm speculating, but I imagine that was a crude plan before I sapped him of his thread capital with our interactions.

Onto MWil, I'm not sure.  MWil might be Town and an unfortunate victim of circumstance with matts buddying up for Town credit. 

The KOTN vote / modkill is probably the best evidence that MWil has to convince us on that front, but I would negligent to not give my full thoughts on it: 

KOTN's vote would also be... (I think) the only (or maybe second) vote on MWil?  And MWil didn't come into the thread until after it occurred (but, he has typically been absent on Thursdays due to known responsibilities).  So, he knew what he had to do from that perspective.  I would be remiss to not point out that the same logic of matts buddying up to MWil is not applicable to MWil / Nacho.  Nacho garnered several hurried votes that didn't really make much sense, and MWil was adamant that he believed Nacho.  And, MWil went with a defense of Nacho (while he is garnering suspicion) and Matts tried to position him to the front... Those actions would be synergistic if they're both scum.

I realize it reads as "damned if you do, damned if you don't," but there is such a strong connection and link here that I don't think we can afford to lock MWil as Town based on the KOTN bit.  But, I'm certainly more open to him being Town than I was when matts defended him.

This is where I'm at based on today:

matts
MWil
Xmad
gopher
Rick
Touch
rack
squire
Slappy (No Read)
tk3
Nazgul
Dome
Daboyle
Malfatron
Counselor
Orca
Ragnarok
Forge
Nacho

[SwAg]

Yellow, y'all gotta give me something more. 

Y'all are a lot closer to Orange than Blue.

[SwAg]

Orange, y'all are scum or need to quit being a liability.

Blue, good work, I view you as incompetent Town at worst.

Green, y'all da real boys nahmsayin my fish people?

[gopherwrestler]

7 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

I can think of 9 times he has done this as not-town. Star trek being one. 

Okat Swag, see if you can name the other 8. 

Ohhhhhhh Matt’s playing defense

[theuntouchable]

Good morning 

[theuntouchable]

4 hours ago, SwAg said:

 

 

So, I don't think Nacho is scum based on this.

For a start, I am confident that matts is scum, and with that first post I believe he is alluding to at least the Final Fantasy game.  So, it seems like he is trying to leading Nacho to the forefront for me to attack him like I attacked Forge and others for commentary that could be construed as incriminating (related to theme/role) in pre/early game. 

That strikes me as trying to position a conflict for Nacho, who was already garnering votes, and nudging me into doing the heavy lifting on it.  Either I do it, and Nacho likely flips Town, or I do not do it, and Matts is able to draw a contrast later (since I did it previously as Town) and try to push us as together.

I'm sure matts is going to be upset that I'm speculating, but I imagine that was a crude plan before I sapped him of his thread capital with our interactions.

Onto MWil, I'm not sure.  MWil might be Town and an unfortunate victim of circumstance with matts buddying up for Town credit. 

The KOTN vote / modkill is probably the best evidence that MWil has to convince us on that front, but I would negligent to not give my full thoughts on it: 

KOTN's vote would also be... (I think) the only (or maybe second) vote on MWil?  And MWil didn't come into the thread until after it occurred (but, he has typically been absent on Thursdays due to known responsibilities).  So, he knew what he had to do from that perspective.  I would be remiss to not point out that the same logic of matts buddying up to MWil is not applicable to MWil / Nacho.  Nacho garnered several hurried votes that didn't really make much sense, and MWil was adamant that he believed Nacho.  And, MWil went with a defense of Nacho (while he is garnering suspicion) and Matts tried to position him to the front... Those actions would be synergistic if they're both scum.

I realize it reads as "damned if you do, damned if you don't," but there is such a strong connection and link here that I don't think we can afford to lock MWil as Town based on the KOTN bit.  But, I'm certainly more open to him being Town than I was when matts defended him.

This is where I'm at based on today:

matts
MWil
Xmad
gopher
Rick
Touch
rack
squire
Slappy (No Read)
tk3
Nazgul
Dome
Daboyle
Malfatron
Counselor
Orca
Ragnarok
Forge
Nacho

I don’t think I’ve ever seen something like this from you. 

[MWil23]

7 hours ago, Dome said:

can you explain the phrasing here? “lost cause”? 

Sure. @Malfatron asked me this:

Quote

No, it hinges on him flip flopping on his rationale and contradicting himself about reading and skimming. Unfortunately for me he bumped my post to feign interest and scum hunting. or did you think hard bussing could salvage things?

I responded with saying that piling on Matts was a lost cause in that it merely does nothing positive for me/by no means clears me if/when he flips scum. If/when he flips scum, he and I are going to be tied together either way. The "lost cause" is that it does nothing for me whatsoever. For example, I am now in a no win situation in what I do. If I vote for Matts, I'm "bussing" since you all have a strong scum read/lean on me because of Matts bumping my post to feign being active while contributing nothing noteworthy, and then contradicting himself. This all revolves around me not asking for a win con last game, slipping badly, and getting hit D1 as scum. SwAg's theory was that I asked Hockey for a Town win con, or that Orca/Nacho/Pickle did. I pointed out to Swag that:

1. Never did I ask for one last game or make an excuse for my own mistake(s)

2. Malf was conveniently off of his list

3. Pickle dropped off his list 2 hours later without explanation even though he hadn't posted yet

SwAg offered little to no defense, aside from a meta read on me, and a theory that I wouldn't make the same mistake again, which is especially presumptuous considering none of us as Town were given a precise win con, although I've already pointed out how obvious it should have been. Throw in that either Town OR Scum could have asked for the win con(s) and that "multiple people did", this theory has now been tied to me because of how scummy Matts was over like 13 pages.

7 hours ago, Dome said:

well sure it does...

If you’re scum you can point to it and say “if I were scum we all know a vote there does nothing to help my cause”

and then you have what appears to be a valid point; which if you’re scum is great 

textbook wifom

Textbook wifom again

I mean, I guess so, but again, do you really think that you/SwAg/Touch/Malf (assuming you all are town, which I am undecided on) would care? I don't think so whatsoever. Your response, as well as SwAg's response and Malf's questioning, shows exactly this. Malf even tried baiting me into a trap by voting me and saying that I slipped, since I suck as scum, and my meta reads are apparently pretty obvious.

16 hours ago, Malfatron said:

mwil you made a major slip again

Notice, right after this (Page 20), Matts quoted me several times and did his TL;DR spiel, and outed himself as probable scum, and this was the literal trigger of the events that unfolded.

So, Malf's trap worked.

7 hours ago, Dome said:

You do something that couldn’t possibly help you, while voting out a “lost cause” and pointing to the fact that you wouldn’t do that as scum to make people believe you aren’t scum.

why do you think it matters what vote you had?

Hopefully the above answers that. If not, let me know and I'll try to re-explain/rephrase. 

[theuntouchable]

8 hours ago, SwAg said:

@Nazgul, @Counselor, @theuntouchable, @rackcs, @Malfatron, @Dome, @squire12. 

I have identified you as the most likely of the outstanding votes to be reasonable and vote matts. 

Would you kindly read up, see matts embarrass himself repeatedly, and then lynch him.

Please and thank you.

There’s one aspect I’m surprised you haven’t identified 

[theuntouchable]

11 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Sure. @Malfatron asked me this:

I responded with saying that piling on Matts was a lost cause in that it merely does nothing positive for me/by no means clears me if/when he flips scum. If/when he flips scum, he and I are going to be tied together either way. The "lost cause" is that it does nothing for me whatsoever. For example, I am now in a no win situation in what I do. If I vote for Matts, I'm "bussing" since you all have a strong scum read/lean on me because of Matts bumping my post to feign being active while contributing nothing noteworthy, and then contradicting himself. This all revolves around me not asking for a win con last game, slipping badly, and getting hit D1 as scum. SwAg's theory was that I asked Hockey for a Town win con, or that Orca/Nacho/Pickle did. I pointed out to Swag that:

1. Never did I ask for one last game or make an excuse for my own mistake(s)

2. Malf was conveniently off of his list

3. Pickle dropped off his list 2 hours later without explanation even though he hadn't posted yet

SwAg offered little to no defense, aside from a meta read on me, and a theory that I wouldn't make the same mistake again, which is especially presumptuous considering none of us as Town were given a precise win con, although I've already pointed out how obvious it should have been. Throw in that either Town OR Scum could have asked for the win con(s) and that "multiple people did", this theory has now been tied to me because of how scummy Matts was over like 13 pages.

I mean, I guess so, but again, do you really think that you/SwAg/Touch/Malf (assuming you all are town, which I am undecided on) would care? I don't think so whatsoever. Your response, as well as SwAg's response and Malf's questioning, shows exactly this. Malf even tried baiting me into a trap by voting me and saying that I slipped, since I suck as scum, and my meta reads are apparently pretty obvious.

Notice, right after this (Page 20), Matts quoted me several times and did his TL;DR spiel, and outed himself as probable scum, and this was the literal trigger of the events that unfolded.

So, Malf's trap worked.

Hopefully the above answers that. If not, let me know and I'll try to re-explain/rephrase. 

How did malfs trap work if you’re town? 

[theuntouchable]

Also, swag you’re wrong about one part but it’s mostly irrelevant to the overall point. I just like to point out when you’re wrong. 

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, theuntouchable said:

How did malfs trap work if you’re town? 

Malf was the one that originally set a trap that Matts fell headlong into and contradicted himself on. SwAg is the one who pounced on this clear logical fallacy, and then applied his original theory about the Town PM question and me to Matts for "defending me", cherry picking evidence to back his initial hypothesis instead of organically letting this play out. That's why I said he's using inductive reasoning and came to his conclusion first and then went back to support his original theory. 

[theuntouchable]

17 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Malf was the one that originally set a trap that Matts fell headlong into and contradicted himself on. SwAg is the one who pounced on this clear logical fallacy, and then applied his original theory about the Town PM question and me to Matts for "defending me", cherry picking evidence to back his initial hypothesis instead of organically letting this play out. That's why I said he's using inductive reasoning and came to his conclusion first and then went back to support his original theory. 

That doesn’t answer my question at all 

[MWil23]

19 minutes ago, theuntouchable said:

That doesn’t answer my question at all 

I'm not sure how it doesn't. All I'm trying to say is that Malf's trap definitely worked in that it caused Matts to completely mess up. It clearly worked because of how it played out with Matts. He's clearly scum. What sucks for me is that I'm somehow in the crosshairs because of his vote on me, SwAg's theory previous to it based upon Hockey's PSA, and Matt then originally quoted my previous posts/Malf's vote on me.

Also SwAg, I believe KOTN's vote on me made 3. Forge did it first, then Malf voted me on Page 20 (see above), and then KOTN voted me. 

[Hockey5djh]

9 hours ago, SwAg said:

Unofficial Vote Count:

Matts - 6 - SwAg, Orca, Ragnarok, Forge, MWil, Daboyle

Dome - 3 - gopher, Rick, XMad

Malfatron - 2 - squire, Counselor

Slappy - 1 - Malfatron

SwAg - 1 - Liability

XMad - 1 - Nacho

Orca - 1 - matts

Counselor - 1 - Rack

Squire - 1 - Dome

MWil - 0 - KOTN (RIP)

 

I think this is right? @Hockey5djh I'm sure they'll yell at me (or you) if it isn't.

I will be using this for the VC going forward. If you think your vote is inaccurate don't complain, just change your vote.

[Hockey5djh]

Vote Count:

matts- 6 - swag, orca, rag, forge, daboyle, counselor

dome - 3 - gopher, pickle,  SwoleXmad

orca - 2  - mwil, matts

Counselor - 1 - rack

malf - 1 - squire,

squire - 1 - dome

SwoleXmad - 1 - nacho

swag - 1 - tk3

touch - 1 - malf

 

 

didnt vote
theuntouchable
Nazgul
Slappy Mc

Edited November 15, 2019 by Hockey5djh