germ-x Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 22 minutes ago, MakeDenverGreatAgain said: This is ridiculous to me. Truly great head coaches figure out a way to get their players to respond regardless of the style that THEY want to impose. Fangio may want to be the old school, ******* type, but guess what- if they players don't respond to it than you're going to fail as a head coach because he can't adapt his style. At his age, I'm willing to bet that the old dog won't learn new tricks. Same with Vance. Maybe he was too laid back, but his failure to adapt meant he failed as a head coach in the NFL. And before people bring up his age- Pete Carroll is 71, and look at his coaching style and the response from his players, so Fangio's age has nothing to do with the issue. I think we all can agree that he really is just really not suited to be a head coach in today's NFL. I don’t think we’re even close to being able to confirm that Fangio isn’t suited to be an NFL HC. To be quite honest I think this staff has done a terrific job competing this season considering the lack of talent overall on this roster. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_is_the_best Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, germ-x said: I don’t think we’re even close to being able to confirm that Fangio isn’t suited to be an NFL HC. To be quite honest I think this staff has done a terrific job competing this season considering the lack of talent overall on this roster. I mean look at the crazy stuff Scangarello had to pull in the first half to get the offense going. Sure, he could have adjusted better, but playcalling can only take you so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Joe_is_the_best said: I mean look at the crazy stuff Scangarello had to pull in the first half to get the offense going. Sure, he could have adjusted better, but playcalling can only take you so far. Yeah, adjusting to the NFL game is literally something that can only be done on the job. There is just no substitute for this. Doug Pederson's rookie year, with his aggression, was great. His ability to adjust in-game, and his love of Darren Sproles instead of the other RB's, on 3rd/4th and short, were huge flaws. He fixed that in a HUGE way the next year. Now, that's just one example - and it's cherry-picked. There are a lot of examples of coaches / OC's where the light just does not come on. Scangarelli could be one of those guys for sure. But let's look at the cold hard truths: 1. We gave him an absolute statue in Flacco who is exactly the opposite of what is needed for his scheme to work. And yeah, I know, adjust the scheme to the players. I totally agree - unless the talent just isn't that good. We're seeing that now with a journeyman talent in Allen (yes, he's a journeyman, nothing more). He's mobile, and he can make quicker decisions than Flacco could. And the scheme is better as a result. Now, it's not good enough by a longshot for long-term success. But the fact it's already better than Flacco-era shows how bad of a fit that was. And THAT is on GM Elway...not Scangarelli. 2. Our pass pro OL is just abysmal. RT James injury was just bad luck (MCL by impact is not something you can predict). But again, it's Elway's commitment to Bolles 3 years ago, and his subsequent struggles at finding OL help, that define the problem. Not on the OC. 3. Our skill position talent sucks outside of Sutton & the RB's (Fant is showing signs of hope). Again, that's not on the OC. 4. Our run game success relies on having good FB blocking open the 2nd level access, with OK OL play. We're getting the OL play, but make no mistake, we're a different unit when we get excellent FB play. THat's where losing Janovich is going to hurt us, and why at the 5M spent, it's a no-brainer to lock him up for 2 more years. The recurring theme - we're blaming the OC for the fact our talent sucks, and the QB is a terrible fit, with a bottom 5 pass pro unit (top 10 run block unit, for sure). The one valid criticism - our lack of 2H production. That means he's not adjusting well. But that's also not surprising in year 1. Literally one of the skills you just can't acquire elsewhere. He's definitely got to improve - but you need to give him the time to show he can. Gameplan-wise, the only true disaster that was foreseeable and preventable was the TNF KC debacle. Scangarelli got schooled by a DC that guessed what he would do by being predictable. None of the above means OC Scangarelli is for sure going to succeed, let alone become the "next one". But to call him a bust is ridiculously premature. Outside of the KC game (and I'm willing to forgive the mistake game, if its' not a recurring pattern) - he's been able to dial up more 1H success after the QB change with mediocre to bad talent elsewhere on O. Yes, he needs to adjust better at halftime and in-game. But that's part of the learning curve. Again, this is why 2019 was always going to be a rebuild year - it's not Scangarellis' fault that Elway & Ellis want to keep messaging that win-now is still viable. That's on them, not Scangarelli. Edited November 22, 2019 by Broncofan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, MakeDenverGreatAgain said: This is ridiculous to me. Truly great head coaches figure out a way to get their players to respond regardless of the style that THEY want to impose. Fangio may want to be the old school, ******* type, but guess what- if they players don't respond to it than you're going to fail as a head coach because he can't adapt his style. At his age, I'm willing to bet that the old dog won't learn new tricks. Same with Vance. Maybe he was too laid back, but his failure to adapt meant he failed as a head coach in the NFL. And before people bring up his age- Pete Carroll is 71, and look at his coaching style and the response from his players, so Fangio's age has nothing to do with the issue. I think we all can agree that he really is just really not suited to be a head coach in today's NFL. Safe to say we're in fact not all in agreement with that. Edited November 22, 2019 by BroncoBruin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeDenverGreatAgain Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 12:05 PM, BroncoBruin said: Safe to say we're in fact not all in agreement with that. Okay, which part? Feel free to elaborate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 minute ago, MakeDenverGreatAgain said: Okay, which part? Feel free to elaborate... That he's not suited to be a head coach. You, AAA and maybe one or two other people have expressed this. I think the majority of us are happy with what we've seen all things considered. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 Talent wise, yes, this team is lacking and lacking in key areas. But we’re also not Miami or Cincy. Let’s not put it all on the front office. Again, JLC is not exactly Troy Renck or Jeff Legwold, he is a click bait type “reporter.” But he also has this story sourced and if players and, ESPECIALLY, other coaches (and read and listen to what he said on the Fan interview I linked) there is a problem. There is smoke, there has to be a fire somewhere. That doesn’t mean it’s a 5-alarm five but this is concerning. Are we hearing these reports about other teams? Teams with better or worse records than us? We’ve seen this before here and it wasn’t terribly long ago. Lack of people skills is a problem. Like it or not, the leading man needs to get everyone to buy-in; if they’re not, and things are so bad they’re going crying to reporters about it, there is a major problem. What if one of the sources is Mike Munchalk, would any of your opinions on this matter change? This wasn’t something that was made up out of the blue or pure conjecture, again, if there is smoke there is fire. These problems, and JLC is almost assuredly over-hyping them, do need to be addressed and fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Helicopter Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 10:39 AM, MakeDenverGreatAgain said: This is ridiculous to me. Truly great head coaches figure out a way to get their players to respond regardless of the style that THEY want to impose. Fangio may want to be the old school, ******* type, but guess what- if they players don't respond to it than you're going to fail as a head coach because he can't adapt his style. At his age, I'm willing to bet that the old dog won't learn new tricks. Same with Vance. Maybe he was too laid back, but his failure to adapt meant he failed as a head coach in the NFL. And before people bring up his age- Pete Carroll is 71, and look at his coaching style and the response from his players, so Fangio's age has nothing to do with the issue. I think we all can agree that he really is just really not suited to be a head coach in today's NFL. Ok boomer...I think MDGA is Fangio in disguise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Helicopter Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 20 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Talent wise, yes, this team is lacking and lacking in key areas. But we’re also not Miami or Cincy. Let’s not put it all on the front office. Again, JLC is not exactly Troy Renck or Jeff Legwold, he is a click bait type “reporter.” But he also has this story sourced and if players and, ESPECIALLY, other coaches (and read and listen to what he said on the Fan interview I linked) there is a problem. There is smoke, there has to be a fire somewhere. That doesn’t mean it’s a 5-alarm five but this is concerning. Are we hearing these reports about other teams? Teams with better or worse records than us? We’ve seen this before here and it wasn’t terribly long ago. Lack of people skills is a problem. Like it or not, the leading man needs to get everyone to buy-in; if they’re not, and things are so bad they’re going crying to reporters about it, there is a major problem. What if one of the sources is Mike Munchalk, would any of your opinions on this matter change? This wasn’t something that was made up out of the blue or pure conjecture, again, if there is smoke there is fire. These problems, and JLC is almost assuredly over-hyping them, do need to be addressed and fixed. Our offense has been terrible for too many years and under multiple puppets...I’m sticking with FO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Also just want to point out, the Broncos have a few vets lingering around that have been part of a revolving door dumpster fire for a few years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Helicopter Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Baltimore may not win the big one that often but they sure know how to rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 40 minutes ago, The Helicopter said: Baltimore may not win the big one that often but they sure know how to rebuild. 2 championships in 23 years is pretty, pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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