Weekly Bets Thread

[11sanchez11]

2 hours ago, 11sanchez11 said:

So far I went with CHI ML, C Kirk TD +225, 

TD parlay of Davante, Waller, and Gus Edwards boosted to +3335

Parlay of KC -2.5, BUF -2.5 +125

SGP of Seattle +7.5, o 39.5, and Ken Walker TD boosted to +380

CHI ML ❌

Kirk TD ❌

KC/BUF -2.5 ✅

SEA SGP ✅

Need a Waller TD

Added SGP of SF-2.5 and over 40.5 +105

And parlay of NYG -2.5 and SF -2.5 +110

[SmittyBacall]

On 9/13/2023 at 3:16 PM, SmittyBacall said:

I understand that Baltimore is dealing with a lot of injuries and they're on the road here, but I would be very wary of putting any big money on Cincinnati over the next month until Burrow returns to form. He didn't just have a random off day, he's coming back from injury and said post game he hamstring was still sore. It will take some time to knock the rust off.

We saw it last year with the appendectomy during training camp - he was uncharacteristically bad early, slowly progressed each week, and then played like an MVP the last dozen weeks or so. I think we see that again here. It wouldn't surprise me to see us lose (we lost to Pittsburgh and @ Dallas with Cooper Rush the first two weeks in 2023 to start 0-2), or see a banged up Ravens team keep it unexpectedly close.

Personally, I like the under in that game. 46.5 is too high for two teams with good defenses and a hobbled Burrow. Also, our last three match ups of 2023 came below that number (albeit, 2 of them were without Lamar). BOL.

Told ya.

[adamq]

Lol a CMC TD is just automatic. F the odds

 

DK has a boost, Hill 75+ Rec yds +100.. whatta you guys think?

[11sanchez11]

3 hours ago, 11sanchez11 said:

Need a Waller TD

Added SGP of SF-2.5 and over 40.5 +105

And parlay of NYG -2.5 and SF -2.5 +110

Both cash. Waller carried but didn't get in. 

[Wentz you dog you]

Welp 2-2 but hit the boosted ML parlay of Giants, Chiefs and Bills so up a few units... Liking NE ML for night cap...

Edit to add: Thank you to McVay but my goodness, I am done betting on CIN!!! Lucky for their fans, they will start to win now 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Wentz you dog you

[Broncofan]

Before I tally a VERY successful Sunday card, a couple more plays to add for MNF along with the Bell / Bryant / Tillman TD props and the Shaheed yardage props, you shouldn't be surprised lol:

Juwan Johnson O23.5 rec yds DK 2U, 50+ pending 1U (+240 on FD, think it will be better on DK) - why do I think the alt line should be better?  Well this one's easy - it's 29.5 on FD (woah).   

Juwan Johnson TD +400 / +4000 2+ FD 0.8U / 0.2U - you know the drill, if it's at this number, I have to take a stab. 

Been a terrific day, other than the miracle comeback falling short for DEN....oh well, my bankroll is happy, even if my DEN fandom is crushed.

[adamq]

17 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Before I tally a VERY successful Sunday card, a couple more plays to add for MNF along with the Bell / Bryant / Tillman TD props and the Shaheed yardage props, you shouldn't be surprised lol:

Juwan Johnson O23.5 rec yds DK 2U, 50+ pending 1U (+240 on FD, think it will be better on DK) - why do I think the alt line should be better?  Well this one's easy - it's 29.5 on FD (woah).   

Juwan Johnson TD +400 / +4000 2+ FD 0.8U / 0.2U - you know the drill, if it's at this number, I have to take a stab. 

Been a terrific day, other than the miracle comeback falling short for DEN....oh well, my bankroll is happy, even if my DEN fandom is crushed.

I owe you a few drinks next time I'm in Canada 😉

[Broncofan]

On 9/14/2023 at 10:09 AM, Broncofan said:

OK starting my Week 2 SUN card at 7 AM today as DK has about half the games out, FD likely won't have theirs out until after TNF, only a few small TD props out....as always, check B365 out as well ESP for player prop alt lines (but always check TD props, never know):

 

WEEK 2 SUN (+1 MNF)

ATS/ML

OK so have my 5-6 picks this week so far....

EARLY

IND ML +100 @ HOU - both have a new HC & QB, but IND was further along IMO than HOU was.   HFA is the one thing that gives me pause (along with A-Rich being sushi raw), but going with my gut feel... it's only 1U lol.

GB ML +105 @ ATL - This is a major overreaction to ATL's win over CAR, who are still assembling a functional OL, with a rookie QB debut and no Chark (so aging Thielen and green rookie - 2nd year WR's).   ATL's total lack of pass game chops (Ridder really limits them right now, killer for Pitts & London owners) means that while I totally believe in their progress, they're also very binary - if they can run the ball and stay ahead, gamescript works for them.   But if they fall 10+ pts behind, it's over for them IMO.   So I have to take the slight dog odds here, given GB is a pretty complete team (and I give the coaching edge here too).

CIN -3 @ BAL - I know Burrow could still be rusty, and that's why I'm staying off props altogether.   But I'll take the single unit play on CIN, with both BAL missing their 2nd & 3rd best CB, safety and now their C Linderbaum & all-world LT Ronnie Stanley.   

LATE

MIA -3 @ NE - the main reason I take this is that the best parts of NE are their D and their ability to control close games, induces mistakes from the opposition and not shoot themselves in the foot.   The problem is that the teams that give them the biggest matchup problems for their D are speed-based teams - and that's MIA in a nutshell.    With Tua at the the helm, it really leverages their speed threat, and limits the mistakes (as opposed to TeddyB & co. when Tua was out).   So as long as it's 3 or less, I go here.

JAX ML +150 1U (DK 10 pt auto-win condition) - this is more about JAX being at home, and the potential for a 10+ lead early while KC gets more rust off, is too tempting to pass up.  I fully recognize this may look awful later lol. 

5U so far... DK is offering a free 0.4U bet, so I'm going to combine these 5 legs plus the CLE ML -125 for a +7500 7-leg 0.4U ATS/ML parley (above plays, except JAX +3.5 instead of ML; plus LAC & CLE ML).   Again I don't recommend parleys, but if it's a free bet, live a little lol.

 

PLAYER PROPS

EARLY

Nico Collins O45.5 rec yds, 75+ yds +320 1U, 100+ yds +800 0.5U DK - soaked up 11 targets, Noah Brown is out (he was #3 guy anyways), and an IND team that's decimated in the secondary.    Tank Dell faces Kenny Moore, so I'm all over this.  I had him projected for 6/65+, so such a boom play.  100 is probably a bridge too far, but it's +800...   #1 confidence play so far.

Michael Pittman O51.5 rec yds, 75+ yds +240 1U, 100+ yds +600 0.5U DK - similar deal to Collins, although HOU's pass D is better than IND's by a fair margin, so 100+ is again likely too far...but it's +600.   I had him projected for 5-70 (bigger ADOT than Collins), so again have to play this.   Guess IND-HOU makes my rotation for TV viewing lol.  

NEW FRI AM - Sam Laporta O34.5 rec yds 2U - SEA remains vulnerable to TE's, and DET showed they are more than willing to get Laporta both playing a lot of snaps, and sending him targets.  The only reason I'm not going alt lines is because Laporta's ADOT wasn't high, he's in the short-areas, so he'd have to start getting more seam routes / vertical action to trust 50+/75+.  I think it's coming, but better to see evidence of this, let's stay at a very manageable # for now.

LATE

Tony Pollard O19.5 rec 2U, 50+ yds +500 1U - NYJ pass D we know about, they funnel to TE & RB's - and DAL is going to want to get him in space.   My #4 confidence play

Jahan Dotson O43.5 rec yds 2U DK - he was well on his way to beating this line with 31 yds in the 1H (and WAS trailing), before rain / gamescript changed things up in the 2H.   To make sure the 2H conservative gameplan isn't a new lasting change, I'll avoid the alt lines for now.

LATE SAT AM Isaiah Hodgins O29.5 rec yds 2U / 50+ rec yds +260 1U / 70+ +580 0.5U FD - overreaction facing a soft ARI secondary, projected for 4/50.  

SNF

Rhamondre Stephenson O18.5 rec yds 2U (already at 23.5 wow), 50+ yds +500 1U (already at +425, no 75 alt line) DK - I won't lie, I'm super tempted to take his O53.5 rush yd prop as well, but I absolutely trust his 18% target share usage with that NE WR corps, and Mac Jones' willingness to check down.   #2 confidence play.

MNF

NEW FRI AM - Rasheed Shaheed O36.5 rec yds 2U, 50+ yds +180 & 75+ yds +500 0.5U - Posting this now so ppl can take advantage of what I think will be a rising line.   Without Jaycee Horn, CAR's pass D takes a fairly big hit.   Don't let the low pass yard totals fool you, ATL plays a mega run-first O, NO showed they're willing to go pass-heavy with their OL issues and talent - Shaheed is clearly their 2nd best WR (sorry Mike Thomas).    May only take 1 play to get the main line.  My #3 confidence play for the week. 

Juwan Johnson O23.5 rec yds 2U DK (crazy no alt line yet) - just way too low.  If there's a 50+ alt line (or 40+ on FD with that number), I'll take 1U more too. 

So that's 22U with 8 SUN plays so far (as Shaheed & Juwan are MNF plays)... 

LONGSHOT TD

EARLY

Equanimeous St-Brown +2200 / +25000 0.4U / 0.1U DK - I covered it above in another post.  He may in fact be inactive - in which case, this voids.  But if he's active, he's likely replacing Chase Claypool and then becomes the big body WR.   Obviously CHI's O is so bad right now, not going to go a full play, but I have to take a stab

Emmanuel Wilson +700 / +7000 0.4U/0.1U DK - who?  Hes the rookie RB that GB drafted, and it looks more & more that AJ Dillon is the starter this week and Aaron Jones out with his TD-run hammy injury, but Dillon looked like he was in quicksand.   Wilson was inactive, but I suspect he's going to be the backup to Dillon, and given Dillon's play, it's worth a shot.   Here's the rub - ppl will look at boxscores and think Patrick Taylor is the backup, but much like Roschon Johnson & D'onta Foreman, I think it's Wilson.  I wanted the FD lines, but I also don't want to miss out on value, so taking 0.4U/0.1 DK now, and leave room for 0.4U/0.1U more if FD is better.    B365 bettors check out it may be better there too.

Roschon Johnson +600 / +8500 2+ 0.8U / 0.2U FD - DK wised up already, and put him at +450.  FD still has him behind D'onta Foreman, and so this is a chance to capitalize.   He's the clear pass work RB, and against TAM, that's how you deploy RB's.    Worth a second stab.

Justyn Ross +800 / +1000 2+ 0.4U/0.1U DK - it didn't hit week 1 as Ross was only out for 2 RZ pass plays (but he was isolated 1 on 1 by himself) but if anything, the TNF performance will likely bring more interest.   With Kelce back, though, it's only a 0.4/0.1 play.    If he's inactive, then it voids.

Donald Parham +600 (now +450) / +6000 (0.8U/0.2U) DK (also +600 / +11000 2+ on SportsInteraction) - so sad he didn't hit his 2-TD prop, DK has already started to come around.   Gets 1-2 targets a game if he's healthy in RZ, and often in the EZ.    Easy play at those odds. EDIT SAT PM:   Didn't realize that my bet for Parham didn't go through, so I was faced with taking worse odds, but then SI offered +600 / +11000, so I'm still in, and even better 2+ TD odds - fingers crossed lol).  

NEW FRI AM - Colby Parkinson +1100 FD / +10000 2+ DK 0.8/0.2U (if you have FD, consider waiting) - Parkinson has won the #2 TE job in SEA, and he's SEA's version of Donald Parham / Jody Fortson - matchup nightmare in the RZ.  He split snaps with Noah Fant, but last December started to be more of a timeshare.   Because these are FD odds, for longshots we often see a last hour rise, so I'm posting so you're aware, but you may want to wait (I took the DK as that won't change, but waiting on the 1-TD FD prop).

LATE 

NEW SAT AM - Isaiah Hodgins +500 / +6000 2+ 0.8U / 0.2U on DK.   He’s a top 3 guy and a big target with prior chemistry with Danny Jones.   In a get-right game I’d be shocked if he didn’t get 1-2 looks inside the 10 if not the EZ.

Brandon Johnson +950 FD 0.4U / +7500 DK 0.1U (but waiting until 3 PM ET as odds often increase) - there's no 2-TD prop on FD, but the 1-TD prop is too good to pass up if it gets past +1000, given his size and likely active status to still be in RZ plays.   

MNF

Cedric Tillman +1400 / +20000 2+,  Harrison Bryant +1400 / +2000 2+, David Bell +2000 / +25000 2+ DK - all 0.4U/0.1U - with news that Amari Cooper tweaked his groin on Saturday's last practice, the one he had surgery on, taking insane odds on the guys who benefit the most.   

So that's 7U on TD props (1.5U on MNF as well), so we're at 34U so far for Week 2 Sunday.  I'll update this card as I add to the list.  BOL!

TOTAL TO WEEK 2 TNF

ATS / ML - 2-1, +1.2U.    

PLAYER PROPS 6-8, -8.2U

LONGSHOT TD - 3-9, +7.3U (WK1 - Shaheed +600, R-Johnson +900, Parham +800)

NET - +0.3U Week 1 - +3.0U; Week 2 TNF - -2.7U)

 

19 hours ago, Broncofan said:

I'm going to add David Bell +2000 / +25000 2+ DK 0.4U/0.1U given he might be the other guy who gets work.   If Cooper plays at least 1 of the 2 WR's will be inactive, and if he doesn't, then I have the 12 formation receiving TE and the 3rd/4th WR likely to be in the RZ (Goodwin is not a RZ guy).   Both Elijah Moore & People-Jones are like +200, so literally no value there.  BOL!

For the late SUN slate, I see Brandon Johnson is +950 on FD / +15000 2+ play on DK 0.4U/0.1U - with Jeudy being active, Johnson takes less snaps, but likely is part of the RZ package over Mims, esp when they are in 11 personnel.   I'll wait until 3 PM then take the 0.4U play on FD, as I think the line goes up, while the 0.1U DK 2+ TD play is locked in.  

What a day for props and longshots.....to be transparent, I got my longshots mixed up, and Johnson was "only" a +7500 0.1U (so 7.5U reward) on DK for 2+ TD's, not +15000 2+ (B365 had that).     Still, a pretty amazing day.

WEEK 2 TO SNF
 

ATS/ML - 3-4, -1U (- 1-3, -2U today) - I was hoping JAX would get up 10 pts, and I'd cash that +money, but wasn't meant to be.   CIN was a bad call, credit to @SmittyBacall for pointing it out.   GB was a pretty bad beat, wish I had used my DK 10+ auto-win bonus there, oh well.   Glad CIN wasn't the only leg that killed my free 0.4U parley, I'd have been really upset if that happened.

PLAYER PROPS -  13-11, +4.5U (6-1, +12.7U today) - now THAT's more like it.   And why the alt lines are so good.  I "only" hit 1 alt line both ways - but it was the biggest payout with Nico Collins alone going +9.2U out of the 12.7U prop profit today.     And frankly got a little unlucky with Dotson (Howell trailing at halftime somehow threw the ball NINE times in the 2H).

LONGSHOT TD - 5-15, +19.7U (2-5, +12.4U today with 2+TD longshot coming in) - WK1 - Shaheed +600, Parham +800 & R-Johnson +900; WK2 Hodgins +500 & B-Johnson +950 / +7500 2+) - what a late game surge, after 3 very good plays in the early slate all had EZ chances, but missed (Parkinson stopped at the 2 with 1 guy to beat, Parham got 2 targets again, and Roschon Johnson in a clear timeshare and officially the RB2 - so say goodbye to those odds 😪).   But a late TD by Isaiah Hodgins +500 and then Brandon Johnson TD +950 & +7500 2+ with the Hail Mary giving me a free 7.5U extra for a +12.4U TD day, well I'll take it each time. 

TOTAL - +23.2U (WK1 - +3.0U; WK2 to SNF - +20.2U) - total stake 86U so far

Edited September 18, 2023 by Broncofan

[BobbyPhil1781]

People are going absolutely nuts on Twitter. The +18000 every team kicks a FG hit. I usually throw a buck on those but didn't today, of course. 

Great day for me today. Up almost 20u with a couple parlays hitting and if the Dolphins win, it's another 8u. The final game in a 5 ML parlay. I hate that Vegas thinks this game will be so close. 

[thebestever6]

4 hours ago, adamq said:

Lol a CMC TD is just automatic. F the odds

 

DK has a boost, Hill 75+ Rec yds +100.. whatta you guys think?

bill b always seems to take away the best weapon. 

[Broncofan]

Updated MNF card so it's easier to track:

WEEK 2 MNF

ATS/ML (2-3, -0.9U)

CLE ML -125 1.25U (now -135) - taking the DK 7 pt lead auto-win offer.   

NO -3 - just don't think CAR with their OL issues and WR corps still hurting, worth taking.

PLAYER PROPS

(Posted Friday) Rasheed Shaheed O36.5 rec yds 2U, 50+ +180 & 75+ rec yds +500 0.5U DK - Posting this now so ppl can take advantage of what I think will be a rising line.   Without Jaycee Horn, CAR's pass D takes a fairly big hit.   Don't let the low pass yard totals fool you, ATL plays a mega run-first O, NO showed they're willing to go pass-heavy with their OL issues and talent - Shaheed is clearly their 2nd best WR (sorry Mike Thomas).    May only take 1 play to get the main line.  My #3 confidence play for the week. 

Juwan Johnson O23.5 rec yds 2U DK, 50+ ??? 1U DK or FD (now +240 on FD) - the line on FD is crazy, it's 29.5U.  That shows you the value in 23.5.   Waiting for DK to offer an alt line and then I'll dive for 1U.   CAR had a very good TE D last year, but they're hurting, so I'm willing to go 24+ & 50+ (but 75+ is a bridge too far).

LONGSHOT TD PROPS

Juwan Johnson +400 / +4000 0.8U / 0.2U FD - you know the drill, if it's +400 it's an auto-bet for me.   CAR's got a good TE D, but that's probably why the line is this high on FD.  Because it's FD you may want to wait until 1 hr before game time and see if it goes up any further.

David Bell (+2000/+25000 2+ DK), Cedric Tillman (+1400 / +2000 2+ DK & Harrison Bryant (+1200 / +20000 2+ ); all 3 for 0.4U/0.1U DK plays - if Amari Cooper is out, that opens up 3rd WR and 12 formation passing for David Bell & Cedric Tillman & RZ 12 formation preference for Harrison Bryant; at those odds I'll take all 3 for 0.4U/0.1U DK plays.   FD has close to same odds, but a little less (and no 2-TD odds on FD).    Check B365 as well.

 

 

That's 11U for 2 games, so I'm stopping there.   Let's finish a great week 2 strong with Rhamondre Stevenson rec yds tonight, and have a great MNF doubleheader with the card above!  BOL!

Edited September 18, 2023 by Broncofan

[SaveOurSonics]

15 hours ago, SaveOurSonics said:

In addition to these, I added a couple today...

Chargers -2.5 (1u) 

**I just think they're the much better team, even without Ekeler. Henry may get his for TEN, but I think LAC's pace of play will be too overwhelming for the Titans over 4 quarters. 

Bears ML (1u) +130

**I love this line. I think it's a big bounce back spot for the Bears after an embarrassing Week 1 loss. I don't think Tampa is as good as what we saw in Week 1. Wrong team is favored. 

Darnell Mooney O29.9 Yards (1.5u) 

**I always lose when I say this, but this feels like free money. I don't expect Claypool to play, and if he does I'd bet it's in a limited capacity. As the WR2, Mooney will be running the same deep crossing routes that Claypool did a week ago, and he could easily hit this line on a single catch. 

Baker Mayfield O0.5 INTs (0.75u) +110

**If I can get a Baker pick at +odds, I'm taking it. Simple as that. 

Prop Parlay: Bijan O55.5 + Goff U34.5 Attempts (0.25u) +250 (yes, I learned nothing from saying I wouldn't do these) 

**I don't see Bijan being held down for long, so I'll keep betting his over until he starts crushing. With Goff, I expect both teams to try to slow the game down with the run, & I think the Lions are able to pull away here, limiting Goff's attempts. Even if Seattle pulls off the mini-upset, I think it will be at the hands of their defense, not their offense. 

Prop Parlay: Ken Walker O60.5 ry + CRidley O5.5 c + THiggins O60.5 ry + Mooney O29.5 (0.25u) +1000

**I think Seattle further establishes the run in this game with their tackles out, & Walker is the type of back who could hit this line in a single carry. Ridley is the clear #1 in JAX. Tee is due for a big game after being among the league leaders in Air Yards Week 1. And I already said I think Mooney is free money, so threw him in there. 

Teaser (6.5pts / 4 legs): Bears +9 / Bills -1 / 49ers -1 / Cowboys -2 (1.5u) +200

**Have Bears ML already, think they can cover that easy. Bills, 9ers, & Cowboys all feel like slam dunk winners. 

Teaser (7pts / 14 legs): Sea/Det U54 + NyG/Ari U46.5 + NyJ/Dal U45.5 + Was/Den U45.5 + Mia/Ne O39.5 + No/Car U46.5 + Steelers+9.5 + Cowboys-1.5 + 49ers ML + Bills ML + Jaguars+10.5 + Chargers+4.5 + Colts+8.5 + Bears+9.5 (0.25u) +5000 

**Wanted to do one longshot parlay. Really like this one. 

 

I also added a couple of futures that I really liked the price on...

Lions to Win Division (1.25u) -125

**Surprised to get this line after they beat the Chiefs. It pretty much didn't move. 

Jaguars to Win Division (2u) -190

**I don't see a scenario beyond a TLaw injury where the Jags don't take this division. At those odds, I love it.  

 

Touchdowns

Roschon (-0.5u) with criminally little usage today 

Gus & Ferguson hit for a (+5u)  

CKirk (-0.5u) with 11 catches & 0 TDs lol. That's showbiz baby. Didn't watch so not sure if he was ever close. 

Odell (-0.25u) didn't finish what ended up being a high scoring game. 

 

Dailies

Chargers -2.5 (-1.25u) - That's it. Chargers are going on the do-not-bet list. Even without Ekeler, that's an ugly loss. Thankfully they managed to cover the +4.5 Teaser end of things. 

Bears ML (-1u) - The Bears should be ashamed. Losing to the Packers at home with a road game in KC on the horizon. This was a must win. The Justin Fields last minute pick 6 also BURIED my Bears +9.5 Teasers for what resulted in a major loss on the day with Dailies. 

DMooney O29.5 ry (-1.25u) - Knee injury in the 1Q. Unreal. Also directly impacted the rest of my Bears bets. Tough break. 

BMayfield O0.5 INTs (-0.75u) - Again, didn't watch so not sure if he ever got close. It was a coin flip for me between Fields & Mayfield on this prop, & I ended up going with the guy who has more passing volume. Tough luck. 

PPP: Bijan O55.5 ry + JGoff U34.5 attempts (+1.25u)- This one was an absolute joy to watch lol. Bijan crushed his number in the 1st half & Goff was pacing well below this number before a late surge by Seattle forced his hand. He ended up throwing his 34th ball on the last offensive play of the 4Q, & Geno ended the game on the first OT possession. 

PPP: KWalker O + THiggins O + DMooney O + CRidley O (-0.25u) - This one never stood a chance. Only Tee hit his number. 

Teaser: Bills -1 + 49ers -1 + Cowboys -2 + Bears +9.5 (-1u) - This is the one that will keep me up at night. Why was I so leveraged on the Bears? I had much better Teaser calls throughout the week like SEA/DET O41, DAL/NYJ U46, Jaguars +10.5, Commanders +10, Chargers +4.5, Falcons +8.5, Colts +8.5, & Giants +4. Why the Bears? Lesson learned here. New one for the notepad. Don't bet on bad teams. 

Teaser: Falcons +8.5 + Chargers +4.5 + Jaguars +10.5 + Giants +3 + 49ers ML + SEA/DET O41 (+4.5u) - What do you know, my original Teaser that I didn't overthink hit. Very nice win here to save the day. 

14-team Teaser (-0.25u) - Nope. 

 

Overall a +3.75u that could've been much bigger without that Justin Fields pick 6 & injuries...

[Thaiphoon]

A huge you-know-what goes out to the Rams for screwing my parlay. I hit on EVERY LEG of the parlay and the ONLY leg I had left was 49ers -9.5.

You're down by 10 with time expired and you kick a FG.

Making it 49ers -7.0

Thanks for nothin'

[thebestever6]

Been on the phone with bet365 for an hr now just trying to get paid for my nico Collins props lol.

[BobbyPhil1781]

4 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Been on the phone with bet365 for an hr now just trying to get paid for my nico Collins props lol.

I've read they have also screwed over others for props that hit that they marked as misses