Let's talk about Corey Davis

[KingTitan]

15 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

Chark: 11 games, 91 targets

Moore: 11 games, 103 targets

Davis: 10 games, 48 targets

THIS.

You can't get production if you aren't thrown the ball. I can't recall, but I feel like we didn't even throw a pass to him until 3rd quarter. And there are some games where we don't throw to him at all.

I keep using Hopkins as the example because it's the most obvious one.  There are drives where Watson looks at Hopkins and nobody else. Drives where he gets targeted 8 times. In one drive!

Davis is lucky to get 8 targets in 2 games. 
If you say this is your guy, you have to have plays where he is the read regardless and give him the chance to go get it. If he can't come up with it consistently then you have your answer. 

[deeluxx3]

I do it myself, and blaming the scheme and all that is legit

But if you're a good player, you should be commanding more than 4.8 targets a game (not verbally, but with your play). I totally agree with the idea that we as an organization need to have a come to Jesus moment and understand that WRs are our friends and not our enemies. JRob certainly gets that, but our coaches don't.

 

But Corey's level of production right now is not acceptable. 

[dtait93]

29 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

THIS.

You can't get production if you aren't thrown the ball. I can't recall, but I feel like we didn't even throw a pass to him until 3rd quarter. And there are some games where we don't throw to him at all.

I keep using Hopkins as the example because it's the most obvious one.  There are drives where Watson looks at Hopkins and nobody else. Drives where he gets targeted 8 times. In one drive!

Davis is lucky to get 8 targets in 2 games. 
If you say this is your guy, you have to have plays where he is the read regardless and give him the chance to go get it. If he can't come up with it consistently then you have your answer. 

I just did the math.

We run 55 plays per game. Davis get's targeted just under 5 times per game. That's 9% of the time he gets an opportunity at the ball. In that 9% you have to account for a variety of different factors that are not his fault - bad pass by the QB, rushed pass because of the o-line's inability to hold up, double coverage, etc.

And we're gonna blame him for not producing?

Sorry, but no. He's not being utilized like a top 5 pick.

[Daniel]

9 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

I just did the math.

We run 55 plays per game. Davis get's targeted just under 5 times per game. That's 9% of the time he gets an opportunity at the ball. In that 9% you have to account for a variety of different factors that are not his fault - bad pass by the QB, rushed pass because of the o-line's inability to hold up, double coverage, etc.

And we're gonna blame him for not producing?

Sorry, but no. He's not being utilized like a top 5 pick.

You can make the argument that one reason he's only targeted 9% of the time is that he doesn't get open and demand targets the way a great receiver will.

[RuskieTitan]

3 hours ago, titanrick said:

I have some concerns that Mariota will blossom into a good QB on a different team.

Although I have no stats to back it up, those concerns are multiplied by 10 for Corey Davis.  He has the talent and temperament to succeed on a team with an offense resembling something in the 21st century.

Corey Davis would be talked about as one of the elites if he had been drafted by the Saints / Packers / Patriots. We just don't know how to create passing plays with success, nor have we had a quarterback consistently execute those pass attempts.

[dtait93]

6 minutes ago, Daniel said:

You can make the argument that one reason he's only targeted 9% of the time is that he doesn't get open and demand targets the way a great receiver will.

His average of 3+ yards of separation would seem to suggest otherwise

[TitanRedd]

3 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

His average of 3+ yards of separation would seem to suggest otherwise

Keep put it in their faces they don’t get it they only see stats not what goes into it.

[RuskieTitan]

4 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

His average of 3+ yards of separation would seem to suggest otherwise

Yeah, it hurts knowing we have a top 10 talent WR just being wasted away because we cant seem to find a capable OC who can leverage that.

Between him, and AJ Brown, there's no reason Henry should ever face 8 in the box. And if he does, we need to punish the defense.

 

Instead Arthur Smith draws up plays with routes that end up allowing defenders to cover multiple receivers in the vicinity.

[RuskieTitan]

AJ Brown is going to be a good one and a baller. But Corey Davis has a lot more potential. Just hope we recognize and take advantage of it, instead of another team.

[Andrei01]

1 hour ago, dtait93 said:

His average of 3+ yards of separation would seem to suggest otherwise

His average seems to be 2.7, not 3+, and by a quick look at the Next Gen charts, that's not elite, by any margin.

He is not as bad as his numbers seem to suggest, nor does he need to put up high volume numbers to prove that he's a good player. Which is why the idea that he needs to be force fed the ball at an absurd rate to match the numbers of some of the top receivers in the game is a little crazy. He is not as good as the best in the game, I think that much is clear for as long as he's been here. Regardless of how his numbers would look on a different team or system, he is not Hopkins, or Evans, or Thomas, or any of the receivers that deserve the ball coming at them at a well above average rate. Not one of those guys were ever going to be held back by poor scheming or QB play (in fact many, probably most, of them thrived in spite of it) because a player like that will always find a way to prove he's worthy of throwing at him and allowing him to make plays, regardless of OC or QB. That being said, he's not a bad player.

[TitanSS]

I think he's a good WR that is underutilized. Regardless of talent, if the production isn't there you can't pick up his 5th year option.

Also, Humphries was outsnapped by Raymond last night. Humphries had 10 snaps.

To me, you could look at both of these WRs and point some blame at the front office or the coaching staff. Why is Humphries only getting 10 snaps a game? Is that really the game plan. If so, why did Robinson even bother to pay him? 9 million dollars a year for a guy who gets outsnapped by the fullback and roster bubble players? There had to be some miscommunication between what the coaching staff wanted, what the front office wanted, and what the coaches are actually doing on offense.

That's getting off-topic, but I think it is somewhat relevant to the conversation of how we use WRs. What we've invested in the postion in the off-season vs how uninvested we look in them during Sundays.

Davis doesn't need to be replaced, because AJ Brown is good and we're already not using a good WR that we're paying 9 million a year. However, if his production stays like this I think another team gets a steal in FA as we won't be able to justify paying him. It doesn't matter if he's good, if we don't use him we can't justify paying him. *Cough*Humphries*Cough*

It seems like most of AJ Browns success has came over the middle. Actually, it seems like every big play has came off of the same PA Yankee concept, but that's another story. Our passing game still doesn't utilize WRs outside the numbers even with Tannehill. I won't complain about it because he's finding success spreading the ball around, but that is where Davis usually resides.

He's not the special talent you want with a #5 overall pick, however, Conklin isn't the special you hope for with the #8 overall pick and he is a good player that only gets attention when he does something wrong and he will get paid to be our starting RT of the future despite what some people think. Just because a player is selected in the top 10 doesn't mean they have to be a superstar or a bust. Some of them are just good players. Davis is good all-around at several things, but there is nothing special about him. There's really not one thing that he just does really well.

Edited November 25, 2019 by TitanSS

[TitanRedd]

2 minutes ago, Andrei01 said:

His average seems to be 2.7, not 3+, and by a quick look at the Next Gen charts, that's not elite, by any margin.

He is not as bad as his numbers seem to suggest, nor does he need to put up high volume numbers to prove that he's a good player. Which is why the idea that he needs to be force fed the ball at an absurd rate to match the numbers of some of the top receivers in the game is a little crazy. He is not as good as the best in the game, I think that much is clear for as long as he's been here. Regardless of how his numbers would look on a different team or system, he is not Hopkins, or Evans, or Thomas, or any of the receivers that deserve the ball coming at them at a well above average rate. Not one of those guys were ever going to be held back by poor scheming or QB play (in fact many, probably most, of them thrived in spite of it) because a player like that will always find a way to prove he's worthy of throwing at him and allowing him to make plays, regardless of OC or QB. That being said, he's not a bad player.

Dude you do realize that Hopkins & Michael Thomas & Mike Evans play for Offensive geniuses guys that can call plays with the best of em. & scheme & QB play has a lot to do with a receiver being productive. Route concepts. Mane this guy can play and he can run routes & separate with the best of em. Last I check he made 2 all pro Corners look silly. Cassey Hayward, & Stephon Gilmore hell even beat Denzel ward twice Drawing 2 PI’s. Separating isn’t a issue for Corey because he understands leverage he knows how to stack a DB when they’re in his hip pocket. It’s the 🗣system 

[dtait93]

10 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

However, if his production stays like this I think another team gets a steal in FA as we won't be able to justify paying him. It doesn't matter if he's good, if we don't use him we can't justify paying him.

This is what is trending to be true. I will be sad as a Titans fan but happy he won’t be stuck in WR purgatory here with us any longer and can show what he can do.

[TitanSS]

1 minute ago, dtait93 said:

This is what is trending to be true. I will be sad as a Titans fan but happy he won’t be stuck in WR purgatory here with us any longer and can show what he can do.

Yeah, and I don't know if I meant a steal. It depends on how someone perceives a steal, I guess. 

I don't think he goes off and becomes Michael Thomas somewhere else. I do think he can be a productive WR in another offense though. If he were drafted in the 3rd round and wasn't expecting a contract based on his draft status I think we could bring him back because I think he does what we ask him pretty well. But someone else will pay him more than what he's worth to us for how we're using him.

[Andrei01]

7 minutes ago, TitanRedd said:

Dude you do realize that Hopkins & Michael Thomas & Mike Evans play for Offensive geniuses guys that can call plays with the best of em. & scheme & QB play has a lot to do with a receiver being productive. Route concepts. Mane this guy can play and he can run routes & separate with the best of em. Last I check he made 2 all pro Corners look silly. Cassey Hayward, & Stephon Gilmore hell even beat Denzel ward twice Drawing 2 PI’s. Separating isn’t a issue for Corey because he understands leverage he knows how to stack a DB when they’re in his hip pocket. It’s the 🗣system 

Evans was great before Arians came along. So was Hopkins before Watson. Odell produced with bad coordinators and average QB play most of the time in NY, so did Thielen and Diggs in Minny. So did Julio, save for the year he had Shanahan, so did Green, save for the year he had Jackson, and the list can go on and on.