LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 6 hours ago, CBrownsman said: Yeah I'm assuming we're keeping Wilks which I'm not overly happy about. He didn't seem to know how to best use his players. Tried to play 3 safeties when we were so much more deep at CB. I want a guy who will form his scheme around the players he has not trying to go with a scheme despite not having the players for it.. I was praying for Phillips. But at this point I will take anyone but Wilks Interesting. ”I want a guy who molds his scheme around players”. ”I also wanted a guy who has more or less run the same scheme for every team he’s coached for 30 years” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelbell Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 My only concern with Paton is if he is willing to actually take the job or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Please God no to Steve Wilkes. I'm sick of his terrible scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohnson2009 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 52 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: Please God no to Steve Wilkes. I'm sick of his terrible scheme. I really don't think he's a bad d coordinator I just think we are an awful fit for him. He needs 3 solid safeties and runs zone and we have man corners and awful safeties. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, bigjohnson2009 said: I really don't think he's a bad d coordinator I just think we are an awful fit for him. He needs 3 solid safeties and runs zone and we have man corners and awful safeties. Yeah, but good coordinators can figure out how to mold to fit the strength of their roster. We aren't going to build the roster in his likeness when there is a strong possibility he won't even be here in the short or long run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: Yeah, but good coordinators can figure out how to mold to fit the strength of their roster. We aren't going to build the roster in his likeness when there is a strong possibility he won't even be here in the short or long run. It’s a bit of both tbh. His scheme didn’t fit our corners, but realistically any corner should be able to play zone. Some just don’t have the physical ability to turn and run and play man. That said, there isn’t a scheme that covers up for not having quality safeties and linebackers. People talk about how we should have players more traditional nickel as opposed to a big nickel as if TJ Carrie was the missing piece to our success. Towards the end of the year we looked awful, but finding a scheme that covers up for the above issue, then compounded by a complete and utter lack of a pass rush is easier said than done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cortes02 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Mind Character said: As much as we've all talked about Andrew Berry, I have serious doubts that he'll be our next GM selected over George Paton. I don't doubt that Andrew is the candidate that the Haslam's and DePo prefer, but I just don't see how Stefanski brings Paton, who turns down tons of interview requests unless he thinks he has a good shot at getting the job, into Berea then decides that he's not his guy. Paton's known Stefanski for 13 out of the 14 years Kevin was at the Vikings. Even if Kevin has great respect for Andrew and thinks he'll be great 13 years of familiarity, friendship, and working together is going to be impossible to beat. To align with DePo and the organization, it's probably best to hire Andrew as the GM, but the Haslam's have to relent in some regards to their new Head Coach. I think they'll do so by begrudgingly accepting Kevin's endorsement and preference for Paton over Berry. Paton will come in saying all the right things about alignment and DePo, but it won't ever be as seamless of an operation as with Berry and DePo. It's not going to be Andrew Berry, and I'm not quite sure if that's a positive because Paton is still an unknown despite some glowing reviews. You'd have to even think that Stefanski's going to be talking to Paton before and up until the interview. For organizational alignment and because the rational mostly always makes sense at the point of selection, I hope somehow Berry can make it through the process to becoming the Browns GM. I think you have this in the wrong thread. We do have a "The Search for a GM" thread. Peace!!! Edited January 15, 2020 by cortes02 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 9 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: His scheme didn’t fit our corners, but realistically any corner should be able to play zone. Some just don’t have the physical ability to turn and run and play man. While I agree with you, I think it's more a problem of tackling. Zones typically force the ball short and outside to the numbers. As a result, you're forcing your corners to come up and stick ball carriers. That has been a problem for us all year. When you play press man, you eliminate space tackling for the most part. At least from having your corners be responsible for tackling in space consistently. We force the ball into spots, but then we can't rally or tackle in those areas because we aren't those kind of players.Our players are sticky press man guys. I don't know why we aren't taking advantage of that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 20 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: While I agree with you, I think it's more a problem of tackling. Zones typically force the ball short and outside to the numbers. As a result, you're forcing your corners to come up and stick ball carriers. That has been a problem for us all year. When you play press man, you eliminate space tackling for the most part. At least from having your corners be responsible for tackling in space consistently. We force the ball into spots, but then we can't rally or tackle in those areas because we aren't those kind of players.Our players are sticky press man guys. I don't know why we aren't taking advantage of that. I’m guessing the lack of availability of those corners the first month and a half paired with the lack a pass rush the final month and a half played some role. Look, I’m not defending his scheme or saying he’s some savant, but I think there were far bigger issues than just not playing press coverage. This defense has multiple holes, and that’s hard to scheme around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrownsman Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 4 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Interesting. ”I want a guy who molds his scheme around players”. ”I also wanted a guy who has more or less run the same scheme for every team he’s coached for 30 years” I understand what you mean but at least Wade Phillips, using the same base scheme, is able to put players in positions to utilize their abilities. Wilks on the other hand played more Jermaine Whitehead than Terrance Mitchell because...nope...I don't even think I can come up with a reasonable explanation... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, CBrownsman said: I understand what you mean but at least Wade Phillips, using the same base scheme, is able to put players in positions to utilize their abilities. He’s also had some pretty talented defenses. Nothing against Wade, he’s proven his abilities, but he’s not what you seem to be looking for as far as flexibility and adapting to talent. 7 minutes ago, CBrownsman said: Wilks on the other hand played more Jermaine Whitehead than Terrance Mitchell because...nope...I don't even think I can come up with a reasonable explanation... I mean, step back from this for a moment and ask yourself if Terrance Mitchell not getting run was the reason we imploded? Was it the right decision? Idk. Mitchell is better in coverage for sure. This just seems like one of those debates you look back on in 5 years and laugh at knowing there was no right answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) I'm all on-board with trying to upgrade the DC position over Steve Wilks, but I think a lot of people are being forgetful regarding the almost unprecedented amount of starters and defenders that were lost at various times throughout the season, as well as the prolonged duration they were unavailable. Not only were they out for extended periods of time, but they took turns being out throughout the entirety of the season. We finished the season with many games giving major snap count #'s to Porter Gustin, Bryan Cox Jr., Chad Thomas, Sheldrick Redwine, and 2 Rookie LBs (Sione Takitaki + Mack Wilson. No pass rush, LBs missing assignments, Sheldon Richardson and Joe Schobert carrying the defense while our rookie CB Greedy Williams struggled. It was a tough season, Wilks made many mistakes but the defense's issues went far beyond the play-calling. On 12/16/2019 at 1:35 PM, Mind Character said: The 9 out of 14 Initial Starters that have missed many games (Sorted by # of games missed): Christian Kirksey - 12 games Eric Murray - 7 Games Olivier Vernon - 6 Games (I'm including the one he played a handful of snaps in and got injured in) Damarious Randall - 6 Games (injury and suspension) Jermaine Whitehead - 6 Games (injury and cut) Morgan Burnett - 6 Games Greedy Williams - 5 Games Denzel Ward - 4 Games Myles Garrett - 4 Games (Not counted or included ) -- Larry Ogunjobi - 1 Game (Suspension) Edited January 15, 2020 by Mind Character 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 To add to @Mind Character‘s point, often players missed games where their counterpart was also our. (Greedy and Ward, Myles and Vernon). it’s hard to scheme around losing both ends or both corners. At that point reserves become starters (obviously) but rotational guys become either street FA or players playing out of position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrownsman Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: He’s also had some pretty talented defenses. Nothing against Wade, he’s proven his abilities, but he’s not what you seem to be looking for as far as flexibility and adapting to talent. I mean, step back from this for a moment and ask yourself if Terrance Mitchell not getting run was the reason we imploded? Was it the right decision? Idk. Mitchell is better in coverage for sure. This just seems like one of those debates you look back on in 5 years and laugh at knowing there was no right answer. Well i mean it doesn't help that I despise zone defense. That being said no. Your right, that's not the reason we imploded. But they are a reason I believe he is not the answer. Things like that, never playing Avery, playing Eric Murray as our slot corner, these are reasons that I don't want a coach back. If you can't determine who the best players on the team are, I don't want you coaching said team... This is not about our defense not being good last year. This is about our defensive coordinator not being smart last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Just now, CBrownsman said: Well i mean it doesn't help that I despise zone defense. That being said no. Your right, that's not the reason we imploded. But they are a reason I believe he is not the answer. Things like that, never playing Avery, playing Eric Murray as our slot corner, these are reasons that I don't want a coach back. If you can't determine who the best players on the team are, I don't want you coaching said team... This is not about our defense not being good last year. This is about our defensive coordinator not being smart last year. I can dig that. I will say though in my experience guys who have better talent inexplicably look smarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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