2018 Draft thread - PICK THE FASTEST GUY AVAILABLE

[Rich7sena]

8 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Been seeing a lot of mocks lately, and Derwin James seems to be a guy that's falling out of favor. IIRC, he was Kipers top rated player headed into this college football season and some mocks I have seen lately don't have him top 20.

Anyone have any insight on him as a player. Could he be a target for us if he falls, or would that be redundant with us taking a hybrid DB like Obi last year.

He will likely go top 15, but it isn't out of the question he falls out of the top 10. He doesn't play a premium position but he is a premium athlete. At the end of the day, I think he ends up going top 10. I believe Fitzpatrick is a bigger risk to fall out of the top 10.

[NightTrainLane]

1 minute ago, Rich7sena said:

He will likely go top 15, but it isn't out of the question he falls out of the top 10. He doesn't play a premium position but he is a premium athlete. At the end of the day, I think he ends up going top 10. I believe Fitzpatrick is a bigger risk to fall out of the top 10.

He didn't say top 10...he said out of the top 20.

[Rich7sena]

2 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

He didn't say top 10...he said out of the top 20.

I know. My response was a dispute of that line of thinking.

I do think there is a chance the Raiders will have an opportunity to draft James or Fitzpatrick. Between those two (mostly James), Guice, and Vea or Hurst, I'm not sure who I'd pull the trigger on.

A later round guy who intrigues me is receiver D.J. Chark of LSU. He will be at the Senior Bowl. I also like both corner duos from Virginia Tech and LSU. There's a lot of talent in the later rounds of this draft.

Also, Auburn edge prospect Jeff Holland will be a late riser this year. He's very explosive but lacks bend. I like him in late round 2/3 but he'll go earlier.

[riceman80]

On 12/22/2017 at 3:52 AM, Rich7sena said:

He's listed at around 230. But more importantly he has a substantially built lower half.

@riceman80 You'll have to point me to a game where you see those things with Farrell. To me, I see a well built end who lacks the explosiveness and bend to be consistently productive at the next level. He seems destined for the defensive end middle class of players who bounce from team to team on 2 year deals.

Best display of his potential was probably the Fiesta Bowl last year when wrecked the Ohio St. offense. Now i wasnt to sound like he's a freak athlete but he's well above average for a man his size.

His floor is Charles Johnson imo. As a passrusher he posesses excellent snap anticipation, great balance, long arms, and powerful hands that he uses well. He very fast when he gets a few yards(watch his closing speed on QBs particularily on stunts), can bullrush, and even displays a spin move. He's also a very effective rusher from the interior.

And he's one of the best in the draft against the run. He is outstanding at gap control, using his length to keep lineman out of his frame, strong active hands to disengage and make tackles, and does a great job in pursuit.

As a i said, i see Charles Johnson at the least. 8-10 sack guy who's nails against the run. His initial quickness isn't elite but his snap anticipation, hand use, closing speed, and balance make up for it. I expect top 10 for him, maybe top 5. And hes only 20 years old so his room for growth is very high.

On 12/22/2017 at 3:52 AM, Rich7sena said:

I'm also not with you an Ward. As a prospect, he's in between Marston Lattimore and Gareon Conley but he's closer to Conley. I don't see how you could call him inconsistent based on his 2017 season. He's far and away the best man coverage corner in the draft and has great instincts in zone where typically taller and longer corners thrive. He's also great against the run and mitigating YAC. He'll flirt with the fast 40 and 3-cone times in the combine.

Ward has one huge flaw in his game. He is terrible at getting his head around and locating the ball. So many times he never takes his eyes off his man, which is why guys like Simmie Cobbs dominate him cuz he gets burned on 50/50 balls, back shoulder throws, etc. Its a very bad habit that will be relentlessly picked on in the nfl if he doesnt vastly improve on it.

And i dont like my shutdown corners to be as small as he is(listed 5'10" 185). Athletically, youre right that he's gonna shine, especially in agility drills. He's outstanding at mirroring receivers and can flip his hips on a dime. I expect he'll run right around 4.4 as well. His tackling is nothing special to me either. Not great, not bad, just middling. Jmo.

[riceman80]

3 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

He will likely go top 15, but it isn't out of the question he falls out of the top 10. He doesn't play a premium position but he is a premium athlete. At the end of the day, I think he ends up going top 10. I believe Fitzpatrick is a bigger risk to fall out of the top 10.

Whivh is sad to me cuz he's one of the smartest players in the draft. He's not an elite athlete but his IQ and intangibles are outstanding. He's a GREAT football player but not a blue chip athlete.

Personally, the Derwin James I i saw this year isnt worth the top 20 to me and i dont think he'll test as well as people think he will. He looked slow, lacking effort, and just plain bad at times this year. Im curious if he just never got right after his knee injury last year cuz he's was a totally different player in 2016.

[riceman80]

2 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

I know. My response was a dispute of that line of thinking.

I also wonder where this is too. I dont have James in my top 20 prospects but im yet to see any mocks where goes outside the top 15.

2 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

I do think there is a chance the Raiders will have an opportunity to draft James or Fitzpatrick. Between those two (mostly James), Guice, and Vea or Hurst, I'm not sure who I'd pull the trigger on.

Vea would be my first choice, then Hurst, then Guice, then Fitzpatrick. Fitz is a better football player and has extensive slot experience. We already have a freak athlete at S in Obi. Altho tbh, id hate if we used our 1st on a safety with all our holes.

2 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

A later round guy who intrigues me is receiver D.J. Chark of LSU. He will be at the Senior Bowl. I also like both corner duos from Virginia Tech and LSU. There's a lot of talent in the later rounds of this draft.

I love the depth of this draft more than the top end talent in it. I think the best players in this drsft will actually come out of day 2. And i agree theres alot of late round gems that could be had.

2 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

Also, Auburn edge prospect Jeff Holland will be a late riser this year. He's very explosive but lacks bend. I like him in late round 2/3 but he'll go earlier.

Another guy like Ferrell that excels with snap anticipation and outstanding hands to beat his man. Holland has powerful hands for his size which makes his swim move very effective.

[Rich7sena]

8 minutes ago, riceman80 said:

Best display of his potential was probably the Fiesta Bowl last year when wrecked the Ohio St. offense. Now i wasnt to sound like he's a freak athlete but he's well above average for a man his size.

His floor is Charles Johnson imo. As a passrusher he posesses excellent snap anticipation, great balance, long arms, and powerful hands that he uses well. He very fast when he gets a few yards(watch his closing speed on QBs particularily on stunts), can bullrush, and even displays a spin move. He's also a very effective rusher from the interior.

And he's one of the best in the draft against the run. He is outstanding at gap control, using his length to keep lineman out of his frame, strong active hands to disengage and make tackles, and does a great job in pursuit.

As a i said, i see Charles Johnson at the least. 8-10 sack guy who's nails against the run. His initial quickness isn't elite but his snap anticipation, hand use, closing speed, and balance make up for it. I expect top 10 for him, maybe top 5. And hes only 20 years old so his room for growth is very high.

Charles Johnson seems more like his ceiling than his floor. That said, I don't think his floor is very low; probably something like William Hayes. Like you said, he has a good build and refined hand use which can go a long way in the NFL. But again, his lack of explosiveness and bend limit what he can be in the NFL. Further, I wouldn't stand him up. He's a 3-point 6-tech all the way.

If he goes top 10, let alone top 5, I'd be legit shocked. I have him going at the end of round 1-round 2.

Quote

 

Ward has one huge flaw in his game. He is terrible at getting his head around and locating the ball. So many times he never takes his eyes off his man, which is why guys like Simmie Cobbs dominate him cuz he gets burned on 50/50 balls, back shoulder throws, etc. Its a very bad habit that will be relentlessly picked on in the nfl if he doesnt vastly improve on it.

And i dont like my shutdown corners to be as small as he is(listed 5'10" 185). Athletically, youre right that he's gonna shine, especially in agility drills. He's outstanding at mirroring receivers and can flip his hips on a dime. I expect he'll run right around 4.4 as well. His tackling is nothing special to me either. Not great, not bad, just middling. Jmo.

 

I disagree with your assessment on Ward. At least in 2017, he's been making plays on the ball in man coverage all year. 

Here's him defending a back shoulder by getting his head around and arm across while staying in phase the whole play. Text book.

Another angle.

He's also good at mitigating contact when he isn't able to turn his head and still making a play on the ball. 

Closer look.

Perfect timing. This isn't a penalty in the NFL.

He was challenged a lot by those types on throws against Indiana but I thought Ward did a good job all things considered. Out of maybe 5 or 6 of those types of plays he only got "beat" on 2 and one was a pass interference.

Ultimately, back shoulder and 50/50 balls make up a small part of a team's offense and are not high probability plays even against a 5'10" corner. 

 

[Humble_Beast]

Raiders could pick 5 if they lose out with those sorry teams winning

worse they can pick is 21....  SOS is factor and can always change .. hopefully we win out

http://www.tankathon.com/nfl

[Rich7sena]

14 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

Raiders could pick 5 if they lose out with those sorry teams winning

worse they can pick is 21....  SOS is factor and can always change .. hopefully we win out

http://www.tankathon.com/nfl

I think the Raiders will be picking close to where they were before this week: just outside the top 10. Honestly, I see six elite non-QB players in this draft: Chubb, Barkley, Ward, Hurst, Vea, and Guice. I expect four of those have a realistic chance to be available after pick 10.

[Humble_Beast]

this could be a qb heavy draft

Darnold, Lamar Jackson, Baker Mayfield, Rosen, Josh Allen, Mason Rudolph.... all could go very high if they get a buzz going with workouts after strong college careers... That guard from Notre Dame suppose to be a lock for top ten and a stud...some of those elite players might just slide

[Rich7sena]

18 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

this could be a qb heavy draft

Darnold, Lamar Jackson, Baker Mayfield, Rosen, Josh Allen, Mason Rudolph.... all could go very high if they get a buzz going with workouts after strong college careers... That guard from Notre Dame suppose to be a lock for top ten and a stud...some of those elite players might just slide

Darold, Rosen, Chubb and Barkley are locks in my mind to go earlier than where I expect the Raiders to pick. I'm also fairly confident Nelson, at least one of the safeties but probably both, Mayfield, and one of the receivers (probably Sutton) go top 10. I would't be surprised to see one of the tackles, likely Williams or McGlinchey, go top 10, too.

Allen has an outside shot to go top 15. Rudolph and Jackson are easy 2nd rounders for me right now until I hear something difference from the draft cognoscenti.

As it stands, I'm fairly certain the Raiders will have a shot at Vea, Hurst, and Guice. Size could push Ward down.

[Humble_Beast]

11 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

Darold, Rosen, Chubb and Barkley are locks in my mind to go earlier than where I expect the Raiders to pick. I'm also fairly confident Nelson, at least one of the safeties but probably both, Mayfield, and one of the receivers (probably Sutton) go top 10. I would't be surprised to see one of the tackles, likely Williams or McGlinchey, go top 10, too.

Allen has an outside shot to go top 15. Rudolph and Jackson are easy 2nd rounders for me right now until I hear something difference from the draft cognoscenti.

As it stands, I'm fairly certain the Raiders will have a shot at Vea, Hurst, and Guice. Size could push Ward down.

good breakdown.. Josh Allen shouldn't be a first rounder.. but he could be a guy who really shines in shorts... he has the size and arm scouts drool over.Teams could want to find the next Carson Wentz a small school kid with size and arm. Jackson is Deshaun Watson 2.0 and its a copycat league...

[Rich7sena]

1 minute ago, Humble_Beast said:

good breakdown.. Josh Allen shouldn't be a first rounder.. but he could be a guy who really shines in shorts... he has the size and arms scouts drool over.. Jackson is Deshaun Watson 2.0 and its a copycat league...

I don't think the league will view Jackson and Watson as equals. By my estimation, Watson was a discernibly better passer while Jackson is the superior athlete in a frail-looking frame. All indications from media scouts with league sources are that Jackson isn't universally viewed as a quarterback.

[Humble_Beast]

Looks like the Cardinals will beat the Giants.... Raiders draft spot will be #12 going into Monday......

 

[Humble_Beast]

hopefully we win the next two