New Derek Carr thread

[BayRaider]

2 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Jakuvious said the exact same thing. He's been around for ages. I'll pull the quotes. I don't really mind.

Another guy that hates everything and anything. Where did those two posters prove me wrong in any way though? They didn’t. So how is their opinion correct, when I am providing factual information?

[dante9876]

3 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

I think you are both saying that when healthy we have a very stacked O, and are 1 or 2 pieces away.

we were 6-4 through the toughest schedule in the league with that O. 
after week 10 we lost a lot of those pieces, Tyrell was playing through Turf toe. Hunter missed games, Jacobs missed games, our Olineman missed games. And Moreau missed the rest. 

now I’m a big proponent of next man up, and I know every team has injuries, but that was a lot. 
 

also, not only next man up, but when your O is playing bad, it’s time for the D to step up and vice versa. 

They did. Chargers, jags, bengals and broncos. The defense was fine.  Offense couldnt do much starting with the bengals game. 

[BackinBlack]

11 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Deck is part of the house so that’s a easy question.

I don’t think you can spin it like that.

Maybe fix the grill grates instead of getting a new grill? Hard to spin it but nice try homie lol

Lol yea fair enough deck is obviously way bigger importance than a bbq. 
but i was bringing up supporting cast and a deck supports the bbq so it seemed to work in my mind lol. 
 

My point is just, That say carr is a 7/10 qb , of course you can upgrade. But I believe there are some areas that we can upgrade for less and have a bigger impact

[NCOUGHMAN]

2 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Lol yea fair enough deck is obviously way bigger importance than a bbq. 
but i was bringing up supporting cast and a deck supports the bbq so it seemed to work in my mind lol. 
 

My point is just, That say carr is a 7/10 qb , of course you can upgrade. But I believe there are some areas that we can upgrade for less and have a bigger impact

Fwiw my deck is concrete slab so that definitely wouldn’t work lol

and once I get my tax money I’m ordering a new one with iron wheels oh yea

[BackinBlack]

4 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

They did. Chargers, jags, bengals and broncos. The defense was fine.  Offense couldnt do much starting with the bengals game. 

So the entire D gets a pass for being just fine? But we want to run Carr out of town for being fine? 
 

also just because you gave me a layup, in the 4 games you mentioned we went 2-2, the jags game we win if the refs understand how a qb slide works, and the Broncos we lost by one point. 

so it seems like if our D plays well, we can compete. 

now I’ll disagree and say that when the D gives us 2 80 yard TD drives in the final 8 minutes, that is not playing fine. 
 

[BayRaider]

@MrOaktown_56 I read over the whole thread, they did not provide any counter-facts to my facts about the Raiders Offense. Also Yin-Yang liked this post and agreed with it:

On 2/25/2020 at 3:34 PM, BayRaider said:

Finally we agree on something. Carr needs an utterly all-star offense to succeed. 2016 he had two legit #1 WRs, and the #1 Pass Protection, heck one of the best Pass Protection in the history of the league. No sacks from his blindside until the injury. 
 

Carr is not a franchise QB in the way he makes talent around him better. He won’t throw WRs open like franchise QBs, and he needs legendary offensive lines because of how poor his pocket presence is. Since Carr came into the league his pass protections have been: 11th, 4th, 1st, 4th, 26th, and 2nd. And Bear fans were debating him with a 20’s OL, I talked them out of that real quick. Not to mention Carr is 0-6 in sub 40 degrees with a 68 QB Rating. 
 

The only team I see Carr succeeding on is the Colts. #1 Pass Protection. Solid weapons, decent running game, and offense that schemes WRs wide open. Plus a dome. It’s a great fit for him. 

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by BayRaider

[BackinBlack]

@BayRaider do you think if we had a QB who held the ball longer our Oline would give up more sacks? 
 

do you think there is any truth to the statement; Carr’s quick release makes our Olines pass blocking look better?

[MrOaktown_56]

 

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Another guy that hates everything and anything. Where did those two posters prove me wrong in any way though? They didn’t. So how is their opinion correct, when I am providing factual information?

He doesn't hate everything and anything. He's also a mod LOL. I've been discussing things on this site with him for the last 6-7 years on and off. 

Subjective ratings are not factual whatsoever. I'm simply pointing out that you have an agenda that you've been pushing for a while. That's fine. We all have our opinions. But trying to present "facts" about the supporting cast without context is disingenuous.

[MrOaktown_56]

Here are the two quotes:

 

Yin-Yang

"No. 

He’s saying that offense is built to be conservative. 

You can keep throwing this stuff out there, it’s real easy to do out-of-pocket. But your misconstrued view of the Raiders talent, even if true, doesn’t disprove the point others were trying to make - it’s an offense geared towards short and conservative.

Alex Smith being conservative in an Andy Reid offense with Kelce and Hill is one thing. Derek Carr being conservative with a banged up Tyrell Williams and Hunter Renfrow is another."

 

Jakuvious:

"

I think both the offense and the QB are conservative leaning, and that combines to make it even moreso. Carr because I think that's his tendency. I don't think he's Alex Smith bad, but I think he's absolutely the kind of guy who's number 1 priority is not throwing picks and not getting sacked. The offense just because that's the talent that is there, is a run first, short pass second, kind of offensive structure. I think a lot of QBs would actually have produced similarly this year because that's what the talent on the roster is geared towards. I don't think it's an add a QB and then the offense is great kind of situation. I think throwing someone like Brady in, for instance, might improve things a little, but it would still be a very short pass geared offense. I think Brady would arrive and see an offense similar to what he had last year. Trade an upgrade at TE for a much worse defense. Adding a Rivers or Winston or something would give you a guy that would try to chuck it deep, but would just result in a lot of INTs because no one is there to make those plays. I think a more aggressive QB carries a greater increase in negative plays, than in big plays.

I don't think Carr is some great franchise QB, but I do think he is getting scapegoated for some issues inherent to the team, not just the QB. I don't care if you add Aaron Rodgers, you're not dropping bombs to Hunter Renfrow and Keelan Doss. You're not taking an aggressive approach on 3rd and 15 because of how much you trust Foster Moreau and Zay Jones. I do think improvements can be made over Carr (though not cheaply or easily), but if you don't improve at WR you're not getting a high end aggressive offense. If you don't improve on D you're not winning a ton of games. It's just easier to point to one guy."

 

Forum, make of it what you will.

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, BackinBlack said:

@BayRaider do you think if we had a QB who held the ball longer our Oline would give up more sacks? 
 

do you think there is any truth to the statement; Carr’s quick release makes our Olines pass blocking look better?

No. Look at the actual OLine play. This year with Trent playing and 2016 were just completely and utterly dominant. They destroyed defensive lines. Carr had plenty of time to make his reads and fire the ball off. Quick release helps when a defender is getting close. 

[BackinBlack]

I’ll just add I’ve seen Carr under serious pressure within 2 seconds of a snap, get the ball out which nails out the oline. 
 

ive also seen Carr have no one near him and throw the ball away which nails out the opposing D lol

[BayRaider]

@MrOaktown_56 And why not post my replies to those? I completely debunked his Alex Smith thing saying it IS the same thing. People assume just because Carr has a strong arm, his tendency is not conservative. That’s not the truth what so ever. Take the arm out of it. His tendencies have been more conservative than Alex Smith since college. Just because he has a strong arm doesn’t change that. 
 

Also why are you so obsessed with those two? Why not form your own argument against me...? I feel like you are getting desperate and clawing to any hope you can. Carr might be on his way out bro, hope you can deal with that...

Edited February 27, 2020 by BayRaider

[dante9876]

11 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

So the entire D gets a pass for being just fine? But we want to run Carr out of town for being fine? 
 

also just because you gave me a layup, in the 4 games you mentioned we went 2-2, the jags game we win if the refs understand how a qb slide works, and the Broncos we lost by one point. 

so it seems like if our D plays well, we can compete. 

now I’ll disagree and say that when the D gives us 2 80 yard TD drives in the final 8 minutes, that is not playing fine. 
 

Lol if you give up less than 20 points it's fine. Especially when most of cap and resources are on the offensive side of the ball. The side that's suppose to carry the team. Every body brings up injuries on offense but just calls defense trash. They had plenty if injuries too. If they wasnt exhausted from the offense not doing anything all game maybe those drives dont happen. If offense plays better those drives dont matter. And yes we was competitive in those games but it was cause of the defense. Offense do their job we are 4-0 and in the playoffs. Not to mention bengals and jags was two of the worst defenses in the league when we played them. We can blame the refs all we want. They certainly deserve alot of it. But it should hadnt come to that bad call. We should had beat the hell out of the jags. The were in full spiral mode at that point. 

[BackinBlack]

3 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

No. Look at the actual OLine play. This year with Trent playing and 2016 were just completely and utterly dominant. They destroyed defensive lines. Carr had plenty of time to make his reads and fire the ball off. Quick release helps when a defender is getting close. 

This is where I think we can really regress at the position, and it’s ok to disagree.

i think if we switch to a QB who can manipulate a pocket, we will see more big plays but also give up more sacks. 
 

if we switch to a qb who is a statue and doesn’t have a grasp of the O or young and can’t read a D well we will give up way more sacks. 
 

carr knows, a little too well, exactly where his bailout is on every play based on what the D is showing imo. 

[dante9876]

1 minute ago, BackinBlack said:

This is where I think we can really regress at the position, and it’s ok to disagree.

i think if we switch to a QB who can manipulate a pocket, we will see more big plays but also give up more sacks. 
 

if we switch to a qb who is a statue and doesn’t have a grasp of the O or young and can’t read a D well we will give up way more sacks. 
 

carr knows, a little too well, exactly where his bailout is on every play based on what the D is showing imo. 

He bails out to fast though. That's the issue. The oline is fine. Most qbs would love to play behind it.