dtait93 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 5 hours ago, TitanRedd said: Again I know we were ranked top 10 but look how our secondary play against prolific passing offense vs good QB’s. our secondary is bend but don’t break zone heavy cover 3 & 2. I do hope we drafts butler replacement this year, but my opinion we need speed in the secondary & guys that can bump & run. Yeah prolific passing attacks tend to get the best of even the great secondaries in this day and age...that’s not unique to us. A bend but don’t break defense that is generally easy to move the ball on between the 20’s shouldn’t have a secondary ranked 6th in yards allowed though the air...and yet our secondary was able to pull that off. I don’t mind that style of play as long as we’re executing it. After all, it led to us being the 3rd best scoring defense that year. I also don’t mind the aggressive style of defense you’re wanting us to move towards either as long as we’re executing it. Whatever fits our personnel the best is what’s best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airness McNairness Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 8 hours ago, TitanRedd said: Again I know we were ranked top 10 but look how our secondary play against prolific passing offense vs good QB’s. our secondary is bend but don’t break zone heavy cover 3 & 2. I do hope we drafts butler replacement this year, but my opinion we need speed in the secondary & guys that can bump & run. exactly, folks look at numbers and dont remember the games..numbers often lie despite the cleche catch phrase.. like you said, our early success came against bad offenses led by bad or young qb's. when we played actual good offenses and qb's, we got lit up.. the secondary unit was good, and can be elite if the pass rush steps up.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeluxx3 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 yea our pass rush was miserable last year. even a slight improvement there will help the secondary a ton of all the good that JRob has done, he still hasn't fixed the damn pass rush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 6 hours ago, dtait93 said: Yeah prolific passing attacks tend to get the best of even the great secondaries in this day and age...that’s not unique to us. A bend but don’t break defense that is generally easy to move the ball on between the 20’s shouldn’t have a secondary ranked 6th in yards allowed though the air...and yet our secondary was able to pull that off. I don’t mind that style of play as long as we’re executing it. After all, it led to us being the 3rd best scoring defense that year. This. If you're looking for a secondary that can completely shut down a QB like Mahomes, then you're not gonna find it. Our secondary was fantastic last season. Ryan had problems on the outside, but he also made a ridiculous number of splash plays. Adorree Jackson too, and Butler played up to the expectations we had last year. And that's not even getting into our safeties and our depth CBs. We had a top five unit easily, arguably top 3. But like you say, that, by itself, won't shut down a great QB unless he's just having a bad day. 3 hours ago, deeluxx3 said: yea our pass rush was miserable last year. even a slight improvement there will help the secondary a ton of all the good that JRob has done, he still hasn't fixed the damn pass rush He certainly tried. Landry was good last year, and if Wake had continued to play even half as well as he did the first few games, we would have had an average pass rush, at least. Keep in mind he also drafted Walker, who they didn't expect to get injured, and picked up Roberson, who looked very good in limited playing time for a UDFA. Robinson has taken steps, but he can't account for/control everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 4 hours ago, Airness McNairness said: exactly, folks look at numbers and dont remember the games..numbers often lie despite the cleche catch phrase.. like you said, our early success came against bad offenses led by bad or young qb's. when we played actual good offenses and qb's, we got lit up.. the secondary unit was good, and can be elite if the pass rush steps up.. No I'm not a strict numbers guy. They provide great context but don't tell the whole story. In 2018 our secondary was a top 5 unit. The numbers and eye test showed it and it was showing again this year before injuries struck. Imagine how even the best secondaries struggle against prolific passers. Now imagine how much more the unit would struggle without a pass rush from it's front. That was us in 2018 and the secondary was still tops in the league. Same for 2019 and then injuries hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanRedd Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, dtait93 said: No I'm not a strict numbers guy. They provide great context but don't tell the whole story. In 2018 our secondary was a top 5 unit. The numbers and eye test showed it and it was showing again this year before injuries struck. Imagine how even the best secondaries struggle against prolific passers. Now imagine how much more the unit would struggle without a pass rush from it's front. That was us in 2018 and the secondary was still tops in the league. Same for 2019 and then injuries hit. I don’t agree yes our secondary was a top 5 unit before the injuries struck but name the teams we played against early on, all were inexperienced QB’s who can be fooled with disguising coverage & zone blitzes. I’m not talking bout stopping a mahomes, I’m talking bout Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan, a few others I can name we play so much zone & because we have a lack of pass rush we bend but don’t break. I’ve been saying this for the longest if Byard didn’t have to play so much over the top help, & we allow him to Roam like **** lebeau did he easily can lead the league in picks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeluxx3 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Daniel said: He certainly tried. Landry was good last year, and if Wake had continued to play even half as well as he did the first few games, we would have had an average pass rush, at least. Keep in mind he also drafted Walker, who they didn't expect to get injured, and picked up Roberson, who looked very good in limited playing time for a UDFA. Robinson has taken steps, but he can't account for/control everything. all that and a dollar bill will get you a McChicken and a largely ineffective pass rush He's trying to fix it, but hasn't yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanRedd Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said: all that and a dollar bill will get you a McChicken and a largely ineffective pass rush He's trying to fix it, but hasn't yet. 😩🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 13 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said: all that and a dollar bill will get you a McChicken and a largely ineffective pass rush He's trying to fix it, but hasn't yet. I'm just saying that you can't really go in with hindsight and say he's done nothing. Stuff not working out for unforeseeable reasons (i.e. injury) isn't really fair to hold against the GM. No team is without some weaknesses, especially when injuries derail it. I mean, we did kind of get to the AFC Championship last year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamc89 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Daniel said: This. If you're looking for a secondary that can completely shut down a QB like Mahomes, then you're not gonna find it. Our secondary was fantastic last season. Ryan had problems on the outside, but he also made a ridiculous number of splash plays. Adorree Jackson too, and Butler played up to the expectations we had last year. And that's not even getting into our safeties and our depth CBs. We had a top five unit easily, arguably top 3. But like you say, that, by itself, won't shut down a great QB unless he's just having a bad day. He certainly tried. Landry was good last year, and if Wake had continued to play even half as well as he did the first few games, we would have had an average pass rush, at least. Keep in mind he also drafted Walker, who they didn't expect to get injured, and picked up Roberson, who looked very good in limited playing time for a UDFA. Robinson has taken steps, but he can't account for/control everything. Walker will be more of an edge setter like Gilbert to play the run. Don’t expect a lot of sacks or pressure from him if he plays in more than a depth back up role. Turron and Coach Mac have said that since he was drafted. Edited March 26, 2020 by Adamc89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, TitanRedd said: I don’t agree yes our secondary was a top 5 unit before the injuries struck but name the teams we played against early on, all were inexperienced QB’s who can be fooled with disguising coverage & zone blitzes. I’m not talking bout stopping a mahomes, I’m talking bout Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan, a few others I can name we play so much zone & because we have a lack of pass rush we bend but don’t break. I’ve been saying this for the longest if Byard didn’t have to play so much over the top help, & we allow him to Roam like **** lebeau did he easily can lead the league in picks Right but that's just the style of defense. It clamped down in the red zone and a major part of that is because of our top 5 secondary. Like I said, prolific passers throwing for a bunch of yards on us isn't unique to us. It happens all the time to even the best of secondaries. However, as we've both acknowledged our secondary is up against it even more compared to the other top secondaries because of our lack of pass rush from our front. 9 of our 39 sacks came from the secondary in 2018. We literally only had 30 sacks from our front lol. An actual pass rush paired with this secondary? Our entire will defense will be elite. Edited March 26, 2020 by dtait93 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttitansfan4life Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeluxx3 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Daniel said: I'm just saying that you can't really go in with hindsight and say he's done nothing. Stuff not working out for unforeseeable reasons (i.e. injury) isn't really fair to hold against the GM. No team is without some weaknesses, especially when injuries derail it. I mean, we did kind of get to the AFC Championship last year... i didnt say he's done nothing i said he didnt fix the pass rush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeluxx3 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 35 minutes ago, ttitansfan4life said: best of luck but good riddance even as depth...can't say he was better than below-average. guy did zilch while he was here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttitansfan4life Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Only 2 remain from that 2016 draft. Henry and Byard being those two. Incredible first draft though from Jon Robinson. Dodd and Johnson were obviously duds more so Dodd but Sims, Conklin, Johnson, and Sharpe getting second contracts with different teams and then extending arguably the best safety and RB in football... We’ve come a long way since the dark Ruston days... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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