News and Notes: Offseason Edition

[atran35]

My apologies MATT...some stupid rumors on how he could be with this or that team( Dallas in theory ) in 2021. 

[Dallas94Ware]

On 5/9/2020 at 2:37 PM, buddy_z34 said:

A huge reason why I dont care if its Dak or Dalton at the helm is because this coaching staff cant be as bad as the previous regime. 

But Dalton is EXACTLY what people knock Dak for being (even though he has not been that since the first half of his rookie year) - a game manager.

Dalton is a decent passer, who can play smart, sound football. He is a decent starter and a quality backup. 

Dak is sensational. Is he Mahomes? NO. But very few in league history have been on that level. Dak can do things many others cannot, however. And the staff should be a big boost to his abilities. But if you expect Dalton to come in and play as well as Dak, and guide this team to more wins or even the same amount of wins, then you are letting pessimism about a let down season cloud your judgement.

[CAPJ]

42 minutes ago, Dallas94Ware said:

But Dalton is EXACTLY what people knock Dak for being (even though he has not been that since the first half of his rookie year) - a game manager.

Dalton is a decent passer, who can play smart, sound football. He is a decent starter and a quality backup. 

Dak is sensational. Is he Mahomes? NO. But very few in league history have been on that level. Dak can do things many others cannot, however. And the staff should be a big boost to his abilities. But if you expect Dalton to come in and play as well as Dak, and guide this team to more wins or even the same amount of wins, then you are letting pessimism about a let down season cloud your judgement.

I dont think anyone here thinks Dalton is better than Dak (well at least I dont).

I think their point is rather having Dalton at $3 million and using the cap space to round out the team than paying Dak $35 to $40 million.

[matt79511]

4 minutes ago, CAPJ said:

I dont think anyone here thinks Dalton is better than Dak (well at least I dont).

I think their point is rather having Dalton at $3 million and using the cap space to round out the team than paying Dak $35 to $40 million.

It's just not sustainable though. If Dalton went on a Tannehill-esque run for us, his market shoots up to roughly 30 per just like that guy's did. Teddy effing Bridgewater just went for $21M per

Cycling through 7-figure QBs to max out your cap elsewhere is some epic galaxy brain ****. Continuity at the most important position in sports is- get this- important, especially for the perpetual circus that is the Dallas Cowboys. We can give the Bears credit for admitting Trubisky is a sunk cost and get Foles on a decently valued deal (3 years $24M), but, is that the team whose example we want to follow when it comes to the QB position? I bet you their fans would trade spots with us right now even though they've been to the NFCCG and SB more recently and went 12-4 a year ago. Cutler being your best QB in decades (if not ever) is ****ing bleak

[CAPJ]

4 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

It's just not sustainable though. If Dalton went on a Tannehill-esque run for us, his market shoots up to roughly 30 per just like that guy's did. Teddy effing Bridgewater just went for $21M per

Cycling through 7-figure QBs to max out your cap elsewhere is some epic galaxy brain ****. Continuity at the most important position in sports is- get this- important, especially for the perpetual circus that is the Dallas Cowboys. We can give the Bears credit for admitting Trubisky is a sunk cost and get Foles on a decently valued deal (3 years $24M), but, is that the team whose example we want to follow when it comes to the QB position? I bet you their fans would trade spots with us right now even though they've been to the NFCCG and SB more recently and went 12-4 a year ago. Cutler being your best QB in decades (if not ever) is ****ing bleak

If you take that money and round out the team, you can find someone to game manage.

Our best year was when Dak was just a game manager and not throwing for 5000 yards.

Yes Dak did get MVP votes that year but you cant sit here and say they didnt ask him to do less. His job was to take a few reads, take what the defense gave him and rely on the running game.

[matt79511]

8 minutes ago, CAPJ said:

If you take that money and round out the team, you can find someone to game manage.

Our best year was when Dak was just a game manager and not throwing for 5000 yards.

Yes Dak did get MVP votes that year but you cant sit here and say they didnt ask him to do less. His job was to take a few reads, take what the defense gave him and rely on the running game.

No, you really can't. What happened with Tannehill last year is the ultimate best case scenario. If that outcome is what Dalton sees this situation as, well, that would explain why he signed a one-year contract

I can't believe people are actually advocating for skimping at QB of all positions and just trotting out someone new there every year to avoid paying market value to anyone. Paying someone like Dak $35M per is a tough bullet to bite and probably a death knell if COVID kills the cap, but this is just nuts.

Edited May 11, 2020 by matt79511

[CAPJ]

6 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

No, you really can't. What happened with Tannehill last year is the ultimate best case scenario. If that were actually Dalton saw this opportunity as, well, that what explain why he signed a one-year contract

I can't believe people are actually advocating for skimping at QB of all positions and just trotting out someone new there every year to avoid paying market value to anyone. Paying someone like Dak $35M per is a tough bullet to bite and probably a death knell if COVID kills the cap, but this is just nuts.

Jimmy G, Tannehill both went deep in the playoffs while managing the game. Teddy went 5-0.

Not saying it is easy and not saying I'd advocate for it.

I'm on the fence for paying Dak. If the offer is 5 year $35 mill with decent guaranteed money, then I think Dak should take it.

My concern is paying Dak that kind of money and then losing players.

I saw Dak when the line didnt play well and it wasnt good.

I saw Dak without Amari and good receiving threats, it wasnt good. 

I saw Dak play well last year and our defense was garbage and we ended up 8-8.

He hasnt shown that he can win consistently with lesser parts. That's what scares me about paying him top dollar.

Edited May 11, 2020 by CAPJ

[matt79511]

14 minutes ago, CAPJ said:

Jimmy G, Tannehill both went deep in the playoffs while managing the game. Teddy went 5-0.

Not saying it is easy and not saying I'd advocate for it.

I'm on the fence for paying Dak. If the offer is 5 year $35 mill with decent guaranteed money, then I think Dak should take it.

My concern is paying Dak that kind of money and then losing players.

I saw Dak when the line didnt play well and it wasnt good.

I saw Dak without Amari and good receiving threats, it wasnt good. 

I saw Dak play well last year and our defense was garbage and we ended up 8-8.

He hasnt shown that he can win consistently with lesser parts. That's what scares me about paying him top dollar.

I get the concerns. But do you remember who cost $21M against the cap for us in 2016 (13.5%) when Dak 'game managed' us to 13-3? Quarterback Tony Romo, who played seven snaps all year

If your team is loaded with good values elsewhere, you can offset an onerous QB contract. The Cowboys' most successful season with Dak is actually proof of this, contrary to popular belief. The margin for error is lower, but the fact that people think this team is talented enough to have success with Dalton, with Dak counting $31M right now, suggests your sentiments are catastrophizing.

I think our lump year is 2021, with D-Law and Amari both costing over $20M with no outs, and then it's probably time to dump some contracts. But the 2020 draft, should it live up to the lofty praise, extended our window a bit. The Lamb addition gives us flexibility in getting to choose between Gallup and Cooper in two years, helps us keep our offensive spending *somewhat* in check. Hopefully McGovern and Biasdaz hit because our ROI on OL spending is diminishing as well.

Edited May 11, 2020 by matt79511

[Matts4313]

15 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

I get the concerns. But do you remember who cost $21M against the cap for us in 2016 (13.5%) when Dak 'game managed' us to 13-3? Quarterback Tony Romo, who played seven snaps all year

Say it again. This time louder. 

[Matts4313]

50 minutes ago, CAPJ said:

If you take that money and round out the team, you can find someone to game manage.

We have had exactly 2 seasons without top QB money. Weve been in the playoffs a few times, had one of the best records a few times, all while managing that.

Quote

Our best year was when Dak was just a game manager and not throwing for 5000 yards.

He wasnt really. For sure not the whole season. And to blame the 8-8 on Dak completely absolves the entire rest of the team. 

Quote

Yes Dak did get MVP votes that year but you cant sit here and say they didnt ask him to do less. His job was to take a few reads, take what the defense gave him and rely on the running game.

Not really. Dak was consistently throwing intermediate routes and using his legs. Maybe a little refresher:

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Matts4313

[matt79511]

5 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Say it again. This time louder. 

*shouts* ROMO COST 13.4% OF THE CAP WHEN DAK WENT 13-3

And our head coach called a first down spike that let the most gifted QB ever (pre-Mahomes) get the ball back while Dak had the GB defense on their heels. Take that man to the Hague already

[CAPJ]

23 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

I get the concerns. But do you remember who cost $21M against the cap for us in 2016 (13.5%) when Dak 'game managed' us to 13-3? Quarterback Tony Romo, who played seven snaps all year

If your team is loaded with good values elsewhere, you can offset an onerous QB contract. The Cowboys' most successful season with Dak is actually proof of this, contrary to popular belief. The margin for error is lower, but the fact that people think this team is talented enough to have success with Dalton, with Dak counting $31M right now, suggests your sentiments are catastrophizing.

I think our lump year is 2021, with D-Law and Amari both costing over $20M with no outs, and then it's probably time to dump some contracts. But the 2020 draft, should it live up to the lofty praise, extended our window a bit. The Lamb addition gives us flexibility in getting to choose between Gallup and Cooper in two years, helps us keep our offensive spending *somewhat* in check. Hopefully McGovern and Biasdaz hit because our ROI on OL spending is diminishing as well.

But you cant just compare 2016 to now with the cap. Yes we were paying Tony.

We werent paying our DE top money. Werent paying Zeke.

We didnt have Collins locked up. Same as Jaylon.

Again you talk about needing values elsewhere to fit Dak in. We have less value on the team than we did back in 2016 so you're not comparing apples to apples.

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, CAPJ said:

But you cant just compare 2016 to now with the cap. Yes we were paying Tony.

We werent paying our DE top money. Werent paying Zeke.

We didnt have Collins locked up. Same as Jaylon.

Again you talk about needing values elsewhere to fit Dak in. We have less value on the team than we did back in 2016 so you're not comparing apples to apples.

So what you are saying is, you dont have to pay the ancillary pieces? 

[Matts4313]

@CAPJ => Found a solution. We find a way to get that albatross of a contract that Zeke has off the books. Boom, there is a $15m/yr a savings. Now its like we are paying $20m/yr to Dak. 

Plus we can probably get like a second rounder for Zeke. Derrick Henry was a second rounder that year we drafted Zeke right?

Pollard has shown he could step in for Zeke.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Matts4313

[matt79511]

8 minutes ago, CAPJ said:

But you cant just compare 2016 to now with the cap. Yes we were paying Tony.

We werent paying our DE top money. Werent paying Zeke.

We didnt have Collins locked up. Same as Jaylon.

Again you talk about needing values elsewhere to fit Dak in. We have less value on the team than we did back in 2016 so you're not comparing apples to apples.

I hope you're not suggesting that, D-Law, La'el and Jaylon were those team's value players, because they all did jack **** that year. Lawrence played 9 games and got one sack, the line improved when Collins got hurt, and Smith redshirted. Carr and Dez were bad values.

Our values were guys who are forgettable now. Leary. Claiborne. Irving. McClain (Terrell, not Rolando, who went AWOL). Martin, obviously. Hitchens. We need their 2019 equivalents to step up (McCoy, Dix, the 2018 draft, etc- hopefully, some players who aren't on our radar at all). Who knows if they will, but it's not just the QB's contact's fault if this team fails to reach the NFCCG for the 25th year in a row.

Edited May 11, 2020 by matt79511