News and Notes: Offseason Edition

[CAPJ]

1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

So what you are saying is, you dont have to pay the ancillary pieces? 

Not at all. It was about timing. We still had guys on their rookie contracts.

We dont have Collins Cooper Zeke or Tank on their rookie deals.

So if you pay Dak and we lose pieces of our oline and now Dak is under pressure and cant perform nearly as good as you think he is, was paying Dak a mistake?

[Dallas94Ware]

1 hour ago, CAPJ said:

I dont think anyone here thinks Dalton is better than Dak (well at least I dont).

I think their point is rather having Dalton at $3 million and using the cap space to round out the team than paying Dak $35 to $40 million.

That is:

1. Not a.sustainable model for success. You build via draft, not FA, if you want to have long term success. And this teams top part of the roster has already been paid. The cap is still fine.

2. A ridiculous concept, letting your star QB walk. It is a QB driven league. Flacco was the last mediocre QB to win a ring, and that team both got lucky (power outage??) And had a great D that was self built, not bought. That is also uncommon, a mediocre QB part of a SB team.

3. Too risky. What is we end up looking for a good replacement for Dak.for 15 or 20 years, and Dalton never helps this team at all? Your chances are better with Dak than without.

4. Simply crazy. We got lucky with Dak as we did with Romo. And to go from one to the other is a true nfl rarity. How can you pass over your franchise QB for a game manager at best and just give up on the next 7, 9, 11 years to see if Dalton can manage the offense well enough to win It big?

[CAPJ]

3 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

I hope you're not suggesting that, D-Law, La'el and Jaylon were those team's value players, because they all did jack **** that year. Lawrence played 9 games and got one sack, the line improved when Collins got hurt, and Smith redshirted. Carr and Dez were bad values.

Our values were guys who are forgettable now. Leary. Claiborne. Irving. McClain (Terrell, not Rolando, who went AWOL). Martin, obviously. Hitchens. We need their 2019 equivalents to step up (McCoy, Dix, the 2018 draft, etc- hopefully, some players who aren't on our radar at all). Who knows if they will, but it's not just the QB's contact's fault if this team fails to reach the NFCCG for the 25th year in a row.

No. I must have been unclear. My point was you cant just point out that because we paid Tony 13% of the cap in 2016 and went 13-3 that we can do the same with Dak. Because the rosters arent the same and the cap layout isnt the same.

Wasnt stating that Tank nor Collins were value players that year. Just highlighting we are paying them top money now.

[Matts4313]

4 minutes ago, CAPJ said:

Not at all. It was about timing. We still had guys on their rookie contracts.

We dont have Collins Cooper Zeke or Tank on their rookie deals.

So if you pay Dak and we lose pieces of our oline and now Dak is under pressure and cant perform nearly as good as you think he is, was paying Dak a mistake?

So. What will the people we draft over the next 4 years be on? Thats roughly 32 people. Lets say ~25% (8) of them become starters. 

So remove 8 salaries from our roster now, and replace them with 8 cheaper ones. I will start:

Amari Cooper -$20m/yr

CD Lamb +$3m/yr (or whatever)

$17m/yr in savings.

 

Managing the cap is easy. Football is a war of attrition. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Matts4313

[CAPJ]

1 minute ago, Dallas94Ware said:

That is:

1. Not a.sustainable model for success. You build via draft, not FA, if you want to have long term success. And this teams top part of the roster has already been paid. The cap is still fine.

2. A ridiculous concept, letting your star QB walk. It is a QB driven league. Flacco was the last mediocre QB to win a ring, and that team both got lucky (power outage??) And had a great D that was self built, not bought. That is also uncommon, a mediocre QB part of a SB team.

3. Too risky. What is we end up looking for a good replacement for Dak.for 15 or 20 years, and Dalton never helps this team at all? Your chances are better with Dak than without.

4. Simply crazy. We got lucky with Dak as we did with Romo. And to go from one to the other is a true nfl rarity. How can you pass over your franchise QB for a game manager at best and just give up on the next 7, 9, 11 years to see if Dalton can manage the offense well enough to win It big?

Again, I didnt say I would. Was just stating comments around Dak vs Dalton.

[Dallas94Ware]

1 minute ago, CAPJ said:

Not at all. It was about timing. We still had guys on their rookie contracts.

We dont have Collins Cooper Zeke or Tank on their rookie deals.

So if you pay Dak and we lose pieces of our oline and now Dak is under pressure and cant perform nearly as good as you think he is, was paying Dak a mistake?

No. Because it is easier to find (by draft or FA) replacement for a guard, slot receiver, safety or center etc than a franchise QB. 

And you seem to think paying Dak keeps this team from paying its center pieces. It doesnt. Still have 70% or more.of the cap to pay them. And most of those center pieces are already paid and locked up for a bit. As some of them come up for FA, it will be time to pay the next crop of cornerstone players. You cant keep all your stars for their careers. It doesnthappen that way. You keep your QB and a few central cogs of the wheel, draft smart, and keep the roster turning.

[CAPJ]

1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

So. What will the people we draft over the next 4 years be on? Thats roughly 32 people. Lets say ~25% (8) of them become starters. 

So remove 8 salaries from our roster now, and replace them with 8 cheaper ones. I will start:

Amari Cooper -$20m/yr

CD Lamb +$3m/yr (or whatever)

$17m/yr in savings.

 

Managing the cap is easy. 

Assuming Lamb is going to be great. 

I could do the same. Trade Dak. Draft Lawrence. $30 million in cap savings.

#ManagingTheCapisEasy

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, CAPJ said:

Assuming Lamb is going to be great. 

I could do the same. Trade Dak. Draft Lawrence. $30 million in cap savings.

#ManagingTheCapisEasy

How do we get Lawrence, exactly? 

[TheGame316]

13 minutes ago, CAPJ said:

But you cant just compare 2016 to now with the cap. Yes we were paying Tony.

We werent paying our DE top money. Werent paying Zeke.

We didnt have Collins locked up. Same as Jaylon.

Again you talk about needing values elsewhere to fit Dak in. We have less value on the team than we did back in 2016 so you're not comparing apples to apples.

THIS

It's the same way JimmyG can count 27 Million against their cap and get to a Superbowl

Bosa/Buckner/Their RBs/Their WRs are all not being paid yet. When that Party is over, assuming they still have JimmyG at 27-30-35 Million They will start seeing pieces walk. Buckner already had to leave this year, They were savvy in the way they replaced him with Kinlaw

49ers are a good example of a team with a QB making $$ but extreme cap value at multiple other positions

That isn't us anymore. That window has been slammed shut

[CAPJ]

Just now, Matts4313 said:

How do we get Lawrence, exactly? 

I was clearly just mocking you.

[Matts4313]

Just now, CAPJ said:

I was clearly just mocking you.

Well you are missing the point. Its insanely hard to find a top 10 QB. Its much more easy to find a ~15 range WR

[Dallas94Ware]

2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

So. What will the people we draft over the next 4 years be on? Thats roughly 32 people. Lets say ~25% (8) of them become starters. 

So remove 8 salaries from our roster now, and replace them with 8 cheaper ones. I will start:

Amari Cooper -$20m/yr

CD Lamb +$3m/yr (or whatever)

$17m/yr in savings.

 

Managing the cap is easy. Football is a war of attrition. 

Indeed. If you draft wisely, you can.move on from some key players and still be fine. Cant pay everyone every time. Our.key players are paid. When LVE and the next crop are up for payment, guys who's declining production (like Tyron smith, Crawford, perhaps Zeke even) will be coming off the books. Do you always replace that position with another star? No..but the new stars you did get in that time frame should balance it out. Instead of a star LT and RB maybe your next big payouts for the star players are a LB and a WR. 

[Dallas94Ware]

5 minutes ago, CAPJ said:

Assuming Lamb is going to be great. 

I could do the same. Trade Dak. Draft Lawrence. $30 million in cap savings.

#ManagingTheCapisEasy

Easier to replace a WR than a QB. Ask cincy, arizona, oakland, Washington, Cleveland, and all those teams who for 15, 20, 25 years were seeking franchise QBs.

In that same time frame, how many star WRs, LBs, DLs OLs RBs etc did they have, but poured so.many resources into QB position with no or little luck?

[CAPJ]

1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

Well you are missing the point. Its insanely hard to find a top 10 QB. Its much more easy to find a ~15 range WR

I'm not missing the point at all. Not saying you can replace Dak easily.

I stated multiple times Dak is better than Dalton. I stated I wouldnt take Dalton at $3 million over Dak at $35 mill.

I basically agreed with you when you listed QBs over Dak for one year, the only difference I said was I'd take Stafford if healthy.

My point this whole time is concerns with Dak being consistent with lesser pieces around hi, because when he had lesser pieces, the results werent great.

I like Dak. Can make a case he is in the 8 to 12 range.

Again @Matts4313 I like Dak, I just dont worship him the way you do.

Please dont send me a chart on why Dak should be worshipped.

[matt79511]

14 minutes ago, CAPJ said:

No. I must have been unclear. My point was you cant just point out that because we paid Tony 13% of the cap in 2016 and went 13-3 that we can do the same with Dak. Because the rosters arent the same and the cap layout isnt the same.

Wasnt stating that Tank nor Collins were value players that year. Just highlighting we are paying them top money now.

 

9 minutes ago, TheGame316 said:

THIS

It's the same way JimmyG can count 27 Million against their cap and get to a Superbowl

Bosa/Buckner/Their RBs/Their WRs are all not being paid yet. When that Party is over, assuming they still have JimmyG at 27-30-35 Million They will start seeing pieces walk. Buckner already had to leave this year, They were savvy in the way they replaced him with Kinlaw

49ers are a good example of a team with a QB making $$ but extreme cap value at multiple other positions

That isn't us anymore. That window has been slammed shut

So much embellishment

Next year is our Armaggedon when D-Law and Amari cost $44M combined with no outs. This year, Lawrence is at 22, which is bad, but Cooper's at 12, which is fine. The OL deals are all good values. Crawford's deal is bad but it's not a total killer. Zeke's contract is ridiculous but that has more to do with how long we're committed to him than his 2020 cap number. McCoy, Poe, Dix, Jarwin, Brown, and more are savvy deals.

Two weeks ago, the owner/operator of the most well-reputed NFL salary cap website on the internet spent half an hour going on about how well positioned he sees us as being, that all we've messed up is the Zeke contract and the Dak negotiations. But go ahead with your doomsday shticks

Edited May 11, 2020 by matt79511