Texas_OutLaw7 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 1 minute ago, DaBoys said: Dak runs more than almost all other QBs, and the coaching staff should definitely allow him to do it more. These things can exist together. I wasn't really making a claim that they are mutually exclusive. I actually wish we would move the pocket more to stress the defense. But that is on coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 52 minutes ago, matt79511 said: No he wasn't 1. Jackson- 1206 2. Murray- 544 3. Allen- 510 4. Watson- 413 5. Minshew- 344 6. Wilson - 342 7. Jones- 279 8. Prescott- 277 https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/stat/rushing/table/rushing/sort/rushingYards/dir/desc ctrl + f QB Ahhh I sorted the wrong column. He was 8th not 3rd. Sooo..... He still ran more than most QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Just now, Texas_OutLaw7 said: I wasn't really making a claim that they are mutually exclusive. I actually wish we would move the pocket more to stress the defense. But that is on coaching. They wouldn’t let him run in between the 20s. We’ll see if the new staff changes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said: Dak in 2019 (among QBs who started at least 10 games): Passing yards: 2nd Passing TDs: 4th TD/INT: 13th Completion %: 12th Y/A: 4th ANY/A: 5th QBR: 4th EPA: 3rd The Quarterbacks with more wins than Dak over the last 3 years: Tom Brady Jared Goff Drew Brees Russel Wilson And you can add in Pat Mahommes, Lamar Jackson, and Jimmy Garoppolo, since they will possibly top 27 wins over a 3 year period as starters next season. That still puts Dak at 8th. ---------------------------- So I guess my message for the don't-pay-Dak crowd would be: For those who think Dak is an "average starter", you are not reasonable. You must be unaware of what average NFL quarterback play actually is. By any reasonable analysis, Dak is "above average" at worst. For those who think he's an above average starter, but our future Super Bowl hopes are better letting him walk than paying him $35M/year... well, I disagree, but it's a reasonable debate worth having. But unfortunately your argument is being drowned out by the loonies from the first bullet point. Let’s start a poll. We will keep it simple, with no grey areas. Is Dak Bad, is Dak average, or is Dak great? No above average, below average, slightly this or that. Not Good, great, elite. lets keep it simple. You have 3 options. Is Dak bad? Is Dak average? Or is Dak great? What do you expect the results to be? i can already tell you. There will be some that say he is bad flat out. There will be some loonies that say he is great. But the overwhelming vast majority will vote average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGame316 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 23 minutes ago, DaBoys said: Let’s start a poll. We will keep it simple, with no grey areas. Is Dak Bad, is Dak average, or is Dak great? No above average, below average, slightly this or that. Not Good, great, elite. lets keep it simple. You have 3 options. Is Dak bad? Is Dak average? Or is Dak great? What do you expect the results to be? i can already tell you. There will be some that say he is bad flat out. There will be some loonies that say he is great. But the overwhelming vast majority will vote average. I think he's good. Even at the above stats, He kind of shakes out to about 8th. Which has been a non homer consensus that he is in the 8-12 range Win % over his 4 year career has him at 8th, Win % over the past 3 seasons he is 12th Even the above stats, some as high as 2nd, Some as low as 12/13, and that's during a "Career Year" I think their are 2 classes of Quarterbacks. Those that get long term contracts with their teams as the "Face of the Franchise" and those that are just keeping the seat warm for the next guy as the team goes through a quasi rebuild Dak is definitely "Above Average" in terms of the entire 32 starting Quarterback sample size But in terms of "Face of the Franchise" guys, He is probably square in the middle of that 16-20 man group, where "Average" is what would define him fairly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_OutLaw7 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 50 minutes ago, DaBoys said: lets keep it simple. You have 3 options. Is Dak bad? Is Dak average? Or is Dak great? This is weak, Daboys. You are so much better than this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, Texas_OutLaw7 said: This is weak, Daboys. You are so much better than this. Not willing to say he is great, are we? Why not? It can’t be crazy to call him average if you don’t even feel comfortable claiming he is great. Sure there are multiple tiers between average and great, and maybe he falls somewhere in between. Though I can certainly drum up some folks around here that feel he falls somewhere between bad and average. That’s kinda the point. There is no consensus opinion on Dak. I don’t know why people who think he is above average/good get SO triggered when someone says he is just average. They then, like clockwork, have to do a 180 and back off claims that he is good/great/elite. If you think Dak is above average and I think he is average then we basically agree. You’re just a smidge warmer than me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetFancyMoses Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, DaBoys said: Not willing to say he is great, are we? Why not? It can’t be crazy to call him average if you don’t even feel comfortable claiming he is great. Sure there are multiple tiers between average and great, and maybe he falls somewhere in between. Though I can certainly drum up some folks around here that feel he falls somewhere between bad and average. That’s kinda the point. There is no consensus opinion on Dak. I don’t know why people who think he is above average/good get SO triggered when someone says he is just average. They then, like clockwork, have to do a 180 and back off claims that he is good/great/elite. If you think Dak is above average and I think he is average then we basically agree. You’re just a smidge warmer than me. There are 32 teams. So average is 16. I'd put Dak in 15 to 12. So slightly above average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_OutLaw7 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 "I am going to limit the selections in order to fit my narrative - move goal posts, call you crazy if you disagree with me - and then claim victory!" -DaBoys (inside Daboys Head: Bwahahahha, I win!) For the Record, I break it down as such: Elite: Top 3 Great: Top 5 Good: Top 10 Above Average: Top 13 Average: Top 18 Below Average: Top 21 Bad: Top 26 Awful: Bottom of the Barrel. Rookie: NR If you were to break it down that way...you list him where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, SweetFancyMoses said: There are 32 teams. So average is 16. I'd put Dak in 15 to 12. So slightly above average. This would be assuming there is only 1 average QB in the NFL. The guy ranked 16th. That’s not how it works though technically I guess it’s true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPJ Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 21 minutes ago, Texas_OutLaw7 said: "I am going to limit the selections in order to fit my narrative - move goal posts, call you crazy if you disagree with me - and then claim victory!" -DaBoys (inside Daboys Head: Bwahahahha, I win!) For the Record, I break it down as such: Elite: Top 3 Great: Top 5 Good: Top 10 Above Average: Top 13 Average: Top 18 Below Average: Top 21 Bad: Top 26 Awful: Bottom of the Barrel. Rookie: NR If you were to break it down that way...you list him where? By that logic, I would have him Above Average, slightly going into the Good range. The other issue with rankings, is it is based on a point in time compared to his peers. For example, Cole Kmet was the #1 rated Tight End in his draft class but that doesnt make him Elite. To me the overall QBs in this league is a bit lacking. We have some Elite guys (Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers) and then we have a bunch of guys that show some potential, QBs that are past their prime but still good for a year, but mostly the league is full of young unproven guys that havent showed up consistently and whether that is because of scheme, coaching or talent around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_OutLaw7 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, CAPJ said: For example, Cole Kmet was the #1 rated Tight End in his draft class but that doesnt make him Elite. Agreed. Which is why I don't rank Rookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 40 minutes ago, Texas_OutLaw7 said: "I am going to limit the selections in order to fit my narrative - move goal posts, call you crazy if you disagree with me - and then claim victory!" -DaBoys (inside Daboys Head: Bwahahahha, I win!) I only used the word looney because nyfdb used it. For the record, I don’t think anyone is crazy for believing Dak is a good NFL QB. I don’t think we have a crazy person here except for maybe @Rtnldave .....but an endearing kind of crazy. 40 minutes ago, Texas_OutLaw7 said: For the Record, I break it down as such: Elite: Top 3 Great: Top 5 Good: Top 10 Above Average: Top 13 Average: Top 18 Below Average: Top 21 Bad: Top 26 Awful: Bottom of the Barrel. Rookie: NR If you were to break it down that way...you list him where? Hmmmmm....somewhere in the Good to above average range. This is how I see it though: 1. Mahomes 2. Russ 3. Rodgers 4. Tommy Rings 5. Drew Brees 6. Watson 7. Lamar 8. Ryan 9. Stafford(assuming he returns to pre back injury ‘19 form) 10. Big Ben(assuming he returns to 2018 form) 11. Cousins 12. Dak 13. Wentz 14. Josh Allen 15. Goff 16. Jimmy G 17. Tannehill 18. Dalton 19. Kyler 20. Cam 21. Carr 23. Darnold 23. Daniel Jones 24. Winston 25. Teddy Bridgewater 26. Nick Foles 27. Trubisky 28. Mariota 29. Fitzpatrick 30. Flacco 31. Keenum 32. Haskins 33. Tyrod Taylor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiller Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 3 hours ago, DaBoys said: Let’s start a poll. We will keep it simple, with no grey areas. Is Dak Bad, is Dak average, or is Dak great? No above average, below average, slightly this or that. Not Good, great, elite. lets keep it simple. You have 3 options. Is Dak bad? Is Dak average? Or is Dak great? What do you expect the results to be? i can already tell you. There will be some that say he is bad flat out. There will be some loonies that say he is great. But the overwhelming vast majority will vote average. And I my mind that is too limiting because RIGHT NOW I would only vote 3 QB in the great area Mahomes Wilson Rogers. Jackson and Watson need a couple more years to prove it to me. Neither has really shown over their careers they are better then Dak. Brady is arguably the best QB to ever play the game but is he a elite QB, well he wasn’t one last year so.,. Brees would have been on the list in times before but he wasn’t elite last year either I would say Dak is well above average just not the best QB in the game So if pushed to pick average or great I vote great by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_OutLaw7 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 @DaBoys, we have similar rankings - except I would easily take Dak over the following: Quote 8. Ryan 9. Stafford(assuming he returns to pre back injury ‘19 form) 10. Big Ben(assuming he returns to 2018 form) 11. Cousins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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