Matts4313 Posted May 12, 2020 Author Share Posted May 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, resilient part 2 said: the fact that you are not the one coming up with these "facts" "stats" alone should hold some value.. It's not like what you have been saying is an opinion etc.. Its a graph. That makes it to complicated for some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt79511 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 1 minute ago, TheGame316 said: It's not just about the 4 year deal. It's also the "structure" of the 4 year deal. Part of Dak's insistence on the deal being 4 years is the year 4 cap number will likely be so high the Cowboys will have to come to him for a renegotiation/extension Assuming Dak signed a 4 year 140 Million dollar contract today with 100 million dollars guaranteed, and the Cowboys needed it renegotiated after year 3, (To lower the year 4 cap number) Dak would likely be seeing another 100 million plus guaranteed on that new contract A 4 year deal is Dak's way of trying to put 240 million plus in guaranteed money in his pocket after playing 3 seasons of his 4 year deal This is all true. No qualms. And for Stephen Jones, complaining to the media about the "analytics" of paying a QB (when you drafted a runningback 4th overall and gave him $50M fully guaranteed on his second contract) is his way of turning the public against the quarterback who's been nothing but professional up to this point, while he and his father have failed to construct a team good enough to advance past Round 2 in two and a half decades. You can say what you want about Dak, but it's hard to see the future as anything but bleak with this silver spooned schmuck set to inherit the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGame316 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, resilient part 2 said: the fact that you are not the one coming up with these "facts" "stats" alone should hold some value.. It's not like what you have been saying is an opinion etc.. Holds no value when he only cherry picks the ones that conform to his confirmation bias Edited May 12, 2020 by TheGame316 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGame316 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 1 minute ago, matt79511 said: This is all true. No qualms. And for Stephen Jones, complaining to the media about the "analytics" of paying a QB (when you drafted a runningback 4th overall and gave him $50M fully guaranteed on his second contract) is his way of turning the public against the quarterback who's been nothing but professional up to this point, while he and his father have failed to construct a team good enough to advance past Round 2 in two and a half decades. You can say what you want about Dak, but it's hard to see the future as anything but bleak with this silver spooned schmuck set to inherit the team I give all that kind of talk a pass, it's hollow, self serving and more about being on brand and staying on message Cowboys are just protecting their brand deflecting questions, and trying to stay ahead in the court of public opinion (and probably running out of original things to say) Stephen can't exactly come out and say "Dak's just trying to jack 240+ million out of us in the next 3 seasons and we're hip to his game and we aint having it" Agreed on the bolded part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resilient part 2 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, TheGame316 said: Holds no value when he only cherry picks the ones that conform to his confirmation bias That is a 2 way street around here. Yet it certainly appears much more viable in both quality and quantity for Matts... almost seems like 20 examples for every one opposite.. Though I may be off and it's only a 10 - 1 ratio.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted May 12, 2020 Author Share Posted May 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, resilient part 2 said: 8 minutes ago, TheGame316 said: Holds no value when he only cherry picks the ones that conform to his confirmation bias That is a 2 way street around here. Yet it certainly appears much more viable in both quality and quantity for Matts... almost seems like 20 examples for every one opposite.. Though I may be off and it's only a 10 - 1 ratio.. The weird thing about people who say things like that against me - - I am fully capable of bashing Dak when he plays bad (Packers, Eagles 2.0 are biggest examples). I just think he does a lot more good then given credit for. And takes about 500% of the blame he deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 13 minutes ago, resilient part 2 said: I know this is a totally new and different off-season than usual, But I can't believe how much debate/discussion is going on for a PROVEN QB. And I am not talking about how much or not Dak deserves on his contract. But the all out hate, that a few have, for a QB, who at least has shown more than just signs, that he can be the one to build around for the next decade or so.. Is there another franchise that has this?? Dak is not proven. It’s not just fans here that are divided on him either. I really really encourage you(people who are tired of Dak talk) to go to other forums. Just don’t stay to long. This place is mild compared to them. Other forums, the media, analysts, fans of other teams, are all torn. Some love him, some hate him, most just think he is an average starter. Hell even the Dallas Cowboys are taking their time working this deal. If it was such a no brainer they would just succumb to his seemingly trivial demand(especially trivial for the team considering he is HOF lock) and move on but they aren’t... The fact is we have averaged 9 wins a season over the last 3 years. Not everyone is excited about locking that in. While he might have showed enough to warrant a deal, it’s not at all an easy decision. Another thing to consider... I see a lot of people calling him young and developing, and we need to lock him up for a decade. How he is going to continue to progress and how we need to be patient because he’s still young. We do realize he turns 27 this year right? This isn’t a 20 year old kid that has shown promise. This guy is mid career right now. QBs can play for awhile but mostly those QBs are pocket passers that don’t use their legs. That’s part of Daks game. You saw him start to break down at the end of last year health wise. You really think he’s going to be running around like that at 33? 34? ... much less 37 years old. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted May 12, 2020 Author Share Posted May 12, 2020 12 minutes ago, DaBoys said: Dak is not proven. It’s not just fans here that are divided on him either. I really really encourage you(people who are tired of Dak talk) to go to other forums. Just don’t stay to long. This place is mild compared to them. Other forums, the media, analysts, fans of other teams, are all torn. Some love him, some hate him, most just think he is an average starter. Cowboys centric places (Cowboys Zone) are a cesspool. Places that invite other fans (Reddit, event twitter to an extent) are much more balanced. There are no analytic sites that I am aware of that call Dak "average". Link? I would be interested as most advanced sites have him top 5. 12 minutes ago, DaBoys said: Hell even the Dallas Cowboys are taking their time working this deal. If it was such a no brainer they would just succumb to his seemingly trivial demand(especially trivial for the team considering he is HOF lock) and move on but they aren’t... Because we are dumb and wait to long on contracts. 12 minutes ago, DaBoys said: The fact is we have averaged 9 wins a season over the last 3 years. Not everyone is excited about locking that in. While he might have showed enough to warrant a deal, it’s not at all an easy decision. I thought that was coaching? Thats what I have been told. 12 minutes ago, DaBoys said: Another thing to consider... I see a lot of people calling him young and developing, and we need to lock him up for a decade. How he is going to continue to progress and how we need to be patient because he’s still young. We do realize he turns 27 this year right? This isn’t a 20 year old kid that has shown promise. This guy is mid career right now. QBs can play for awhile but mostly those QBs are pocket passers that don’t use their legs. That’s part of Daks game. You saw him start to break down at the end of last year health wise. You really think he’s going to be running around like that at 33? 34? ... much less 37 years old. Dak uses his legs, but he isnt a runner. He is a pocket QB first and foremost. He only runs when he needs to or sees wide open spaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 34 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Cowboys centric places (Cowboys Zone) are a cesspool. Places that invite other fans (Reddit, event twitter to an extent) are much more balanced. There are no analytic sites that I am aware of that call Dak "average". Link? I would be interested as most advanced sites have him top 5. Because we are dumb and wait to long on contracts. I thought that was coaching? Thats what I have been told. Dak uses his legs, but he isnt a runner. He is a pocket QB first and foremost. He only runs when he needs to or sees wide open spaces. Dak runs more than most QBs, and is in fact a weapon of his. He has ranked no lower than 12th in QB rushing yards since entering the league. He was 3rd last year. He is not a pocket passer in the true form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_z34 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 4 hours ago, resilient part 2 said: I know this is a totally new and different off-season than usual, But I can't believe how much debate/discussion is going on for a PROVEN QB. And I am not talking about how much or not Dak deserves on his contract. But the all out hate, that a few have, for a QB, who at least has shown more than just signs, that he can be the one to build around for the next decade or so.. Is there another franchise that has this?? The only thing people are discussing is paying the guy the amount that he wants. I've already stated numerous of times that I would rather have Dak than Dalton next season. But if Dak wants to be the highest paid QB in the league then that's where my issues are with him. I've seen with my own 2 eyes what paying a game managing QB does to a team. That is what I dont want to happen to the Cowboys. You pay your QB and you make sacrifices on other positions. Ask yourself this, is Dak able to overcome the deficiencies of not having a good o-line or group of WRs because the Boys sacrificed say a Gallup or Collins or Smith because they cant afford them because of the money tied up with Dak. Other QBs; Russ, Brady, Brees, Big Ben, Mahomes. They overcome roster deficiencies I'm not sure Dak can. I dont need advanced numbers, graphs or analytics to tell me otherwise. I'd rather Dak prove me wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_OutLaw7 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 7 hours ago, DaBoys said: Dak runs more than most QBs, and is in fact a weapon of his. He has ranked no lower than 12th in QB rushing yards since entering the league. He was 3rd last year. He is not a pocket passer in the true form. Interesting, since the impression I have is Dak doesn't run NEARLY enough. He doesn't stress a defense nearly as much as he should with his legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, DaBoys said: most just think he is an average starter. Dak in 2019 (among QBs who started at least 10 games): Passing yards: 2nd Passing TDs: 4th TD/INT: 13th Completion %: 12th Y/A: 4th ANY/A: 5th QBR: 4th EPA: 3rd 9 hours ago, DaBoys said: The fact is we have averaged 9 wins a season over the last 3 years. The Quarterbacks with more wins than Dak over the last 3 years: Tom Brady Jared Goff Drew Brees Russel Wilson And you can add in Pat Mahommes, Lamar Jackson, and Jimmy Garoppolo, since they will possibly top 27 wins over a 3 year period as starters next season. That still puts Dak at 8th. ---------------------------- So I guess my message for the don't-pay-Dak crowd would be: For those who think Dak is an "average starter", you are not reasonable. You must be unaware of what average NFL quarterback play actually is. By any reasonable analysis, Dak is "above average" at worst. For those who think he's an above average starter, but our future Super Bowl hopes are better letting him walk than paying him $35M/year... well, I disagree, but it's a reasonable debate worth having. But unfortunately your argument is being drowned out by the loonies from the first bullet point. Edited May 12, 2020 by Nextyearfordaboyz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt79511 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 8 hours ago, DaBoys said: Dak runs more than most QBs, and is in fact a weapon of his. He has ranked no lower than 12th in QB rushing yards since entering the league. He was 3rd last year. He is not a pocket passer in the true form. No he wasn't 1. Jackson- 1206 2. Murray- 544 3. Allen- 510 4. Watson- 413 5. Minshew- 344 6. Wilson - 342 7. Jones- 279 8. Prescott- 277 https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/stat/rushing/table/rushing/sort/rushingYards/dir/desc ctrl + f QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt79511 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 (edited) The idea that we should dump his *** because our three year running average is 9-7 is ****ing hilarious. His predecessor went 8-8 three straight years. Drew Brees, a Top 5-6 QB ever, "one-upped" that with three straight 7-9's. You can argue until you're blue in the face about how much more talented this team is than those ones, how much easier our schedule has been, and it doesn't prove that any random QB could've done better. Total bad faith argument. edit: and the idea that the 2016 roster was this unstoppable machine that anyone could've overseen to the first seed in the conference is even worse. It was the same team as 2015 outside of the draft class, with less pass rushing talent. Rodgers and his weapons made that secondary look like children Edited May 12, 2020 by matt79511 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Texas_OutLaw7 said: Interesting, since the impression I have is Dak doesn't run NEARLY enough. He doesn't stress a defense nearly as much as he should with his legs. Dak runs more than almost all other QBs, and the coaching staff should definitely allow him to do it more. These things can exist together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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