Heinz D. Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: I want us to aim higher for what it’d take to get him. A second round pick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: A second round pick? IMO, he’s no better than Dalton who would cost significantly less in a trade, and only marginally better than Keenum who will cost 1/3 as much cap-wise and no draft capital. Carr has no upside either IMO - I don’t see him as ever being more than a slightly above average QB which means everything else around him has to be great for us to have a shot to win a title. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 1 hour ago, The_Romen said: Depends who it is... Carr, give them whatever. Dalton, please no unless cheap. Yet if you look at their records Dalton has been far more successful than Carr. I dunno. It's not my decision so I'm gonna live with whomever we end up with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 43 minutes ago, soulman said: Yet if you look at their records Dalton has been far more successful than Carr. I dunno. It's not my decision so I'm gonna live with whomever we end up with. If it’s an experienced starter with somewhat of a track record for success then Dalton makes the most sense, especially when considering the presumed cost to acquire him. I’d put Keenum ahead of Carr and maybe Mariota on the scale of likelihood too, also because of cost. I think Dalton and Carr are comparable talents who both should be viewed as bridge guys to the next potential franchise guy, and both superior in talent to Mariota and Keenum, in that order. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 The numbers tell us that Carr is better than Dalton. He has superior numbers in pretty much every category and metric. Is he a 2nd round pick and 10 million better than Dalton, I am not 100% sold on that. The real issue is Carr is coming off a really good year. And 2/3 previous years have been good. Dalton is the opposite, he is coming off a miserable year and it has been 2/3 years since he was really good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: If it’s an experienced starter with somewhat of a track record for success then Dalton makes the most sense, especially when considering the presumed cost to acquire him. I’d put Keenum ahead of Carr and maybe Mariota on the scale of likelihood too, also because of cost. I think Dalton and Carr are comparable talents who both should be viewed as bridge guys to the next potential franchise guy, and both superior in talent to Mariota and Keenum, in that order. Sounds about right to me. While I can understand some of the clamoring for Carr it's not as if he's this "gotta have him" level QB. Gruden is a pretty fair judge of QBs and if he's willing to move on from him IMHO he feels Carr has peaked and that his peak is not championship level. If that's the case we'd be spending big for only a marginal upgrade if that provided Mitch starts to hit his stride. Since I can't see Pace and Nagy not making at least one last effort to get Mitch on track to me any option that would require them to demote Mitch immediately just ain't happenin'. The vet with the most success who could also be a nice fit sure seems to be Dalton but will Cincy deal him to us on terms we can live with and if not and he's released would be agree to come to Chicago? If none of that happens then it looks like were down to second tier guys like Mariota and Keenum who are UFA and the best we could get. I'm gonna sit back and watch it play out. Anything could happen but again on the probability scale I'd have to rank Carr coming to Chicago via trade pretty low vs Dalton and even that has some doubts. This is a challenge so let's see how Pace handles it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 Looks like no Carr to Chicago unless he gets released and is willing to sign on as the immediate backup with a chance to start down the road.... which is a relief to me because I think it's a huge waste to give up any draft assets for him when it is likely Dalton will be released and can be signed to fill in that exact role. At this point I can only see a Dalton, Keenum or Mariota type of signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, WindyCity said: The numbers tell us that Carr is better than Dalton. He has superior numbers in pretty much every category and metric. Is he a 2nd round pick and 10 million better than Dalton, I am not 100% sold on that. The real issue is Carr is coming off a really good year. And 2/3 previous years have been good. Dalton is the opposite, he is coming off a miserable year and it has been 2/3 years since he was really good. It's also been about 4 years since Cincy was any good and in the most important metric Dalton actually does have a winning record (70-61-2) whereas Carr does not (39-55). Yeah, Carr is coming off his best year rating wise and Dalton his worst but Cincy also won the Loser Bowl for the 1st overall pick. That could be considered a factor as well. Also, prior to last year their QB ratings we're nearly identical at 89 and change. Here's the deal. If these guys were steaks neither is a Morton's or a Ruth's Chris but Carr maybe priced more like it whereas Dalton may more Outback priced. Neither are dog meat but one may be a better bargain than the other and also not require some kind of an immediate upheaval at QB or an early QB controversy. I'm with AZ in that I rank Carr and Dalton pretty much the same and above a few others like Mariota and Keenum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 37 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Is he a 2nd round pick and 10 million better than Dalton, I am not 100% sold on that. I am. But it's not going to happen. Guaranteed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Looks like no Carr to Chicago unless he gets released and is willing to sign on as the immediate backup with a chance to start down the road.... which is a relief to me because I think it's a huge waste to give up any draft assets for him when it is likely Dalton will be released and can be signed to fill in that exact role. I agree with your assessment. But--did you see something that indicated all that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 3 hours ago, beardown3231 said: @Heinz D. I'm going based off that...which makes sense with what the thought has been all along that Mitch will be given every chance to succeed in 2020 and that they are not going to outright replace him at this point by trading for a player like Carr. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 32 minutes ago, soulman said: Sounds about right to me. While I can understand some of the clamoring for Carr it's not as if he's this "gotta have him" level QB. Gruden is a pretty fair judge of QBs and if he's willing to move on from him IMHO he feels Carr has peaked and that his peak is not championship level. If that's the case we'd be spending big for only a marginal upgrade if that provided Mitch starts to hit his stride. Since I can't see Pace and Nagy not making at least one last effort to get Mitch on track to me any option that would require them to demote Mitch immediately just ain't happenin'. The vet with the most success who could also be a nice fit sure seems to be Dalton but will Cincy deal him to us on terms we can live with and if not and he's released would be agree to come to Chicago? If none of that happens then it looks like were down to second tier guys like Mariota and Keenum who are UFA and the best we could get. I'm gonna sit back and watch it play out. Anything could happen but again on the probability scale I'd have to rank Carr coming to Chicago via trade pretty low vs Dalton and even that has some doubts. This is a challenge so let's see how Pace handles it. A Dalton trade would require a pretty big contractual adjustment much in line with MIA did to trade Tannehill in paying $5M to him in a signing bonus to offset an adjusted contract in TEN. That deal was Tannehill and a current year 6 for a current year 7 and a next year 4. We’d be nuts to pick a trade for Carr for a 2 over that deal for Dalton if available for that. I think the bigger question than whether we’d do that trade for Dalton is whether CIN would do that to facilitate getting something in return (albeit pretty minimal) for a guy the whole world knows they’re cutting first week of May anyway but also with Dalton coming off a really subpar season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: A Dalton trade would require a pretty big contractual adjustment much in line with MIA did to trade Tannehill in paying $5M to him in a signing bonus to offset an adjusted contract in TEN. That deal was Tannehill and a current year 6 for a current year 7 and a next year 4. We’d be nuts to pick a trade for Carr for a 2 over that deal for Dalton if available for that. I think the bigger question than whether we’d do that trade for Dalton is whether CIN would do that to facilitate getting something in return (albeit pretty minimal) for a guy the whole world knows they’re cutting first week of May anyway but also with Dalton coming off a really subpar season. Yup, no one is gonna take on Dalton's last year of his deal @ $17.7 mil as a one year rental. Cincy is either gonna have to take back some of that via a bonus or end up releasing him once they nail Burrows. And even then whoever will most likely want to extend him anyway. Seems to me Pace, Nagy, and his staff just need to decide who their number one target is and pursue that now until it either works or it doesn't. Dalton is under contract so if the Bears are interested they can at least talk trade with Cincy and agree or not agree before they can talk with any of the UFA guys beginning March 16th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 What does Dalton get on the open market? 8-10? What does it cost to get the Bengals to eat 8-9 million? The Dolphins got a 4 for eating 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 43 minutes ago, WindyCity said: What does Dalton get on the open market? 8-10? What does it cost to get the Bengals to eat 8-9 million? The Dolphins got a 4 for eating 5. FWIW Miami got a future 4, not a current year 4, and had to give up draft position from the 6th to the 7th in the current draft to even get that. From Over The Cap: Ryan Tannehill was traded to the Titans on March 16, 2019. In order to facilitate the trade the Dolphins renegotiated Tannehill's existing contract. As part of the renegotiation the Dolphins deleted the 2020 league year from the contract and reduced the salary in 2019 from $18.75 to $7 million with another $5 million available in incentives. Of the $7 million, $6.75 million is guaranteed including a $5 million signing bonus paid by Miami. The Titans are responsible for $2 million in regular season salary, $1.75 million of which is guaranteed, and the incentives if earned. The biggest compromise in the 2019 Tannehill trade was by Tannehill. He took an $11M pay cut to be able to have some say in the situation to which he was going. My suspicion is that we’d expect a similar compromise from Dalton. CIN wouldn't have to swallow the whole difference to make it work provided Dalton is OK being dealt here. He’s going to dictate whether a deal happens or not same as Tannehill did last year. Also, your backup QB salary projection at $8-10M for Dalton on the open market seems to be quite a bit high. Looking at the current QB contract AAV the only QB expected to be a backup going into 2019 making more than $5.5M AAV was Bridgewater at $7.25M. After him are Fitzpatrick and Tyrod ($5.5M each), Chase ($5M), Hoyer ($4M) and Keenum ($3.5M). I guess you could lump Tannehill there at $7M after the trade kicker bonus MIA paid him, but even then that’s not a cost that would come to us as the team signing/trading for Dalton. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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