Bears Reportedly Seeking Dalton

[soulman]

I would take this as further evidence of Pace's plan at QB in 2020 and it's not really unexpected.

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2020/03/04/chicago-bears-quarterback-mitchell-trubisky-expected-to-maintain-starting-job-in-2020/

Bears insider says starting QB job is Mitchell Trubisky's to lose

ESPN's Matthew Berry talked to a Bears insider at the NFL Combine, and it sounds like Chicago's starting quarterback job is Trubisky's to lose at this point.

I asked a Bears insider who will be under center for the first play of the 2020 season. The answer? "Mitchell Trubisky, and it's a handoff." And then they laughed. The expectation is the Bears will bring in a veteran to compete with or back up Trubisky, but while the leash is short, it's still Mitch's job for now.

 

General manager Ryan Pace made it clear that the Bears will be bringing in quarterbacks this offseason, which only makes sense considering Trubisky is currently the only quarterback under contract in Chicago.

Whether that quarterback is Dalton or another experienced veteran like a Case Keenum, it sounds like the Bears will give Trubisky one last chance to prove everyone wrong.

[Sugashane]

Makes me wonder how much slack Pace has with Virginia tbh. He sees more of Tru than any of us, but hopefully the positives he is seeing isn't causing him to use blinders on all the bad we see from him. 

I'd love to see Tru be the franchise guy and lead us to a Super Bowl, but right now IMO he is the weak link that is causing a playoff contender ()with an outside shot of a Super Bowl run) to completely miss the playoffs. 

[soulman]

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

Makes me wonder how much slack Pace has with Virginia tbh. He sees more of Tru than any of us, but hopefully the positives he is seeing isn't causing him to use blinders on all the bad we see from him. 

I'd love to see Tru be the franchise guy and lead us to a Super Bowl, but right now IMO he is the weak link that is causing a playoff contender ()with an outside shot of a Super Bowl run) to completely miss the playoffs. 

Ginny, God Bless Her, is a lifetime Bears fan but in no way someone who has the background to actually run the team.  That would have been "Mugs" had he survived the Old Man.  If Ginny was all that savvy she would have paid heed to her Dad's wishes and never even allowed Mikey to become a peanut vendor at Bears games instead of the CEO and defacto GM.   But I digress.

In summary here's what I believe.

In 2018 Nagy had to nursemaid Mitch almost as if he was a rookie QB which for the most part he was.  The offense Fox ran was nothing like the one Nagy wanted to run.  So what Mitch got was a very simplified version of it.  Nagy #101.  As the year progressed a bit more was added and we began to see Mitch stumble with some of it and operate with less confidence then he had right up to and into the playoff game with Philly.  He didn't move the ball well and he didn't score leaving the game dependent on Parkey.....UGH.

In 2019 Nagy begins to add more of his schemes and from all of the reports we were getting last summer Mitch was struggling to handle it even in camp.  That was downplayed for us but it was not inaccurate and we saw it immediately in game one.  He had no idea how to adjust to what GB threw at him and the rest of the year pretty much followed suit.  Those teams who took note of what GB did made him look bad.  Plainly he wasn't digesting the schemes or seeing the field as Nagy wanted him to see it and his confidence plummeted.

So here we sit prior to 2020 and his third year in Nagy's offense and it's fish or cut bait time.  Nagy brings in Defilippo and Lazor to help him figure out just what needs to be changed in order to fit Nagy's schemes around Mitch and his abilities instead of trying to make Mitch fit wholly into Nagy's former "box".  We don't know yet what that might entail or what the results may be but what we do know is this is Mitch's last ride in this rodeo and that he will either "get it" quickly or whoever Pace adds at QB will end up replacing him this year.

As long as we have a competent vet #2 who can take over should Mitch fail I don't object to this.  After all we spent a #2 overall pick on the kid and we have no 2020 higher 1st round pick with which to go shopping for his potential replacement or the draft picks and cap to make a block buster trade for a franchise QB so this makes about the most sense as any as far as what can be done now.  We know Mitch has the physical skills to be a very good QB but something between his ears is blocking his understanding of this offense.

If Nagy is willing to admit (and seems to have) that Mitch is not the perfect fit for his schemes but that he can alter them in ways that better fit what Mitch can do well then maybe we can rescue Mitch's career from the potential ash heap.  Clearly they way Nagy went about it last year wasn't working so now it's "If the mountain won't come to Muhammed, then Muhammad must go to the mountain" time for at least one more year 'til we find out once and for all whether we have a top shelf #1 QB in him or we do not and then what?

With a competent #2 whose far better than Chase Daniel we should be able to remain competitive in 2020 should Mitch need to be replaced and in 2021 with a full complement of draft picks again we can re-draft for another top rookie QB.  Until then the best we can do is use a later round pick on a rookie developmental prospect and hope we get lucky there as well. I do believe Pace will draft a rookie QB this year provided one of those he, Nagy, and Defilippo can agree upon is available when it's time to draft one on Day 3.

That's all I've got really.  The current plan seems to address all issues that can be addressed in 2020.  1) Mitch gets his final shot at pulling his game together, 2) We have a good backup plan that allows us to remain competitive if he doesn't, 3) We kick the QB can down the road 'til 2021 when we can draft in round 1 again but add a late round QB pick this year as well.  If Mitch fails we may have 3 QBs in camp in 2021 and Mitch may not be one of them.  Based on what info we have now that's about all I can guess at.

Edited March 4, 2020 by soulman

[AZBearsFan]

23 minutes ago, soulman said:

Nagy brings in Defilippo and Lazor to help him figure out just what needs to be changed in order to fit Nagy's schemes around Mitch and his abilities instead of trying to make Mitch fit wholly into Nagy's former "box".  We don't know yet what that might entail or what the results may be but what we do know is this is Mitch's last ride in this rodeo and that he will either "get it" quickly or whoever Pace adds at QB will end up replacing him this year.

I agree with what you said wholeheartedly but wanted to pull this one part out in particular. It was monumentally disappointing to me that it took this long for Nagy to go to this. The building around what Mitch does well and then sprinkling in a little more of the Nagy want stuff as Mitch can tolerate it should is an evaluation that should have been what happened last offseason. Instead he tried to round-peg-square-hole this thing all offseason and then into and through the season, and he did an extreme disservice to Mitch and the team in doing so. If Mitch is going to succeed this year Mitch needs to accept his role in this, but I think Nagy also needs to acknowledge to Mitch that he put him in position to fail a lot last year too and re-establish the trust that is needed here for this to work. Hopefully the presence of more established offensive coaches in Lazor and Flip will help protect Nagy from Nagy this year. We need success this year, but the goal is and has always been sustained success, and the most linear path to that remains making Trubisky successful. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by AZBearsFan

[dll2000]

11 minutes ago, soulman said:

Ginny, God Bless Her, is a lifetime Bears fan but in no way someone who has the background to actually run the team.  That would have been "Mugs" had he survived the Old Man.  If Ginny was all that savvy she would have paid heed to her Dad's wishes and never even allowed Mikey to become a peanut vendor at Bears games instead of the CEO and defacto GM.   But I digress.

In summary here's what I believe.

In 2018 Nagy had to nursemaid Mitch almost as if he was a rookie QB which for the most part he was.  The offense Fox ran was nothing like the one Nagy wanted to run.  So what Mitch got was a very simplified version of it.  Nagy #101.  As the year progressed a bit more was added and we began to see Mitch stumble with some of it and operate with less confidence then he had right up to and into the playoff game with Philly.  He didn't move the ball well and he didn't score leaving the game dependent on Parkey.....UGH.

In 2019 Nagy begins to add more of his schemes and from all of the reports we were getting last summer Mitch was struggling to handle it even in camp. 

We couldn't see OTAs and all reports we got were about kickers.  So honestly I don't really know what happened in OTAs. 

I followed people who went to camp closely, watched posted videos of camp and then went to a camp practice myself.   I can tell you camp was a lesson in what not to do as a coach.   You don't let ego ruin proper preparation.    

Bears had no healthy TEs who knew what they were doing.  Bears O line was in shambles.  But Bears played a lot of "live" football vs defense.   They could not run a proper play because defense was blowing it up every time.  Nobody could block anyone so everything was off schedule for MT.   Routes weren't being run properly.   But they still just kept plugging through their script of plays like nothing was wrong.   You have to throw that normal practice plan out the window when that is happening.   You aren't doing the basics and when you practice crap you will get crap on game day.

When they did 'individual' drills.  It was one on one routes which looked good and crowd would ooo and aaa, but who cares?  It is a general waste of time, especially with everything else going on.  That is not real football.   

Yes, MT played like crap in camp and in games.  But a lot of that is on coaches and way they practiced.   What they needed to do was stop and separate the team into component parts.   It was obvious our OL and TEs could not handle our defensive front.   You need to separate those groups then and work on fixing the OL and TEs to a point where you can run a play.   You isolate a problem and solve it.  You do not let a problem ruin practices.   In meantime you have QB and WRs going against DBs and LBs and working reads and proper execution.   

Instead they just wasted 80% of practice of reps with broken or forced improvised plays.  Stupid.  Stupid. Stupid.  

That was downplayed for us but it was not inaccurate and we saw it immediately in game one.  He had no idea how to adjust to what GB threw at him and the rest of the year pretty much followed suit.  Those teams who took note of what GB did made him look bad.  Plainly he wasn't digesting the schemes or seeing the field as Nagy wanted him to see it and his confidence plummeted.

Game 1 was poop and so was season, because they had not fixed the problems that were staring them in the face in camp.  Namely,  TEs and OL were not ready to play and the QB had not had quality work with his WRs or preparing to read defenses and execute timing plays.

So here we sit prior to 2020 and his third year in Nagy's offense and it's fish or cut bait time.  Nagy brings in Defilippo and Lazor to help him figure out just what needs to be changed in order to fit Nagy's schemes around Mitch and his abilities instead of trying to make Mitch fit wholly into Nagy's former "box".  We don't know yet what that might entail or what the results may be but what we do know is this is Mitch's last ride in this rodeo and that he will either "get it" quickly or whoever Pace adds at QB will end up replacing him this year.

As long as we have a competent vet #2 who can take over should Mitch fail I don't object to this.  After all we spent a #2 overall pick on the kid and we have no 2020 higher 1st round pick with which to go shopping for his potential replacement or the draft picks and cap to make a block buster trade for a franchise QB so this makes about the most sense as any as far as what can be done now.  We know Mitch has the physical skills to be a very good QB but something between his ears is blocking his understanding of this offense.

If Nagy is willing to admit (and seems to have) that Mitch is not the perfect fit for his schemes but that he can alter them in ways that better fit what Mitch can do well then maybe we can rescue Mitch's career from the potential ash heap.  Clearly they way Nagy went about it last year wasn't working so now it's "If the mountain won't come to Muhammed, then Muhammad must go to the mountain" time for at least one more year 'til we find out once and for all whether we have a top shelf #1 QB in him or we do not and then what?

With a competent #2 whose far better than Chase Daniel we should be able to remain competitive in 2020 should Mitch need to be replaced and in 2021 with a full complement of draft picks again we can re-draft for another top rookie QB.  Until then the best we can do is use a later round pick on a rookie developmental prospect and hope we get lucky there as well. I do believe Pace will draft a rookie QB this year provided one of those he, Nagy, and Defilippo can agree upon is available when it's time to draft one on Day 3.

That's all I've got really.  The current plan seems to address all issues that can be addressed in 2020.  1) Mitch gets his final shot at pulling his game together, 2) We have a good backup plan that allows us to remain competitive if he doesn't, 3) We kick the QB can down the road 'til 2021 when we can draft in round 1 again but add a late round QB pick this year as well.  If Mitch fails we may have 3 QBs in camp in 2021 and Mitch may not be one of them.  Based on what info we have now that's about all I can guess at.

 

[topwop1]

10 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I just can’t see them eating $30M in dead cap to MAYBE have the chance to draft Tua at 3. He’s not a locker room problem like Antonio Brown. He’s like a 10-year captain. That coaching staff doesn’t have the clout to survive a Tank For Trevor season either. 

I think it’s FAR more likely if WSH takes Young at 2 they trade down to 5 or 6 and pick up a crap ton of picks this and next year and maybe still get Okudah or Simmons at 5 or 6 anyway. If WSH takes Tua they have very little trade out value unless someone wants to jump NYG for their OT of choice. That seems highly unlikely to me since there are 4 OTs projected in the top 10. 

What you're saying all makes sense.

But I really hope they do in fact draft Tua so that they don't get one of Chase Young or Isaiah Simmons, because those 2 guys will wreak havoc on the NFC North QB's for years if so.

I think Tua is a good QB but nothing special.

[topwop1]

11 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

 

Good points once again.  This is why I sometimes have doubts that Nagy is going to be a great HC in this league.  He needs to do a better job at self scouting and realizing when he is potentially hurting the team more than helping it get better.  I am willing to cut him a little slack because he is still an inexperienced HC, so hopefully he learned a good lesson from last year and adjusts going forward.

[dll2000]

3 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Good points once again.  This is why I sometimes have doubts that Nagy is going to be a great HC in this league.  He needs to do a better job at self scouting and realizing when he is potentially hurting the team more than helping it get better.  I am willing to cut him a little slack because he is still an inexperienced HC, so hopefully he learned a good lesson from last year and adjusts going forward.

I can remember these things happening as a coach of children.  It sounds silly comparing two, but it is largely the same concept at any level of football.  

If O line is getting killed in team practice you have to stop and fix it separately.  You have O line and D line coach go do a separate practice together to work on it.   You may need to change some guys out or change scheme to help certain guys.  But it has to be fixed.  

In mean time other players need to get their work in.  If you have to improvise and change your practice schedule that is what you have to do.  

You are letting a handful of guys who are really struggling - in Bears case I witnessed it was mostly Long, Daniels and TEs - ruin practice for the entire team.

When you work with kids sometimes its hard to find a center who can snap and block.  Especially shot gun snaps.  So sometimes to get your work in you have to simulate the snaps while one coach trains up a center. 

Practice is all about quality reps.  Your main competitive edge as a coach is all about getting more quality reps in than your opponents.   

Bears practice reps sucked donkey butt from what I could see.  

I used to train other youth coaches for USA Football and this is what I would tell them.  I got it from guys like Bear Bryant and Lou Holtz and Jimmy Johnson and John Wooden and Mike Leech and other lessor known great coaches I knew and admired and spoke to personally.

 

[soulman]

34 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

I agree with what you said wholeheartedly but wanted to pull this one part out in particular. It was monumentally disappointing to me that it took this long for Nagy to go to this. The building around what Mitch does well and then sprinkling in a little more of the Nagy want stuff as Mitch can tolerate it should is an evaluation that should have been what happened last offseason. Instead he tried to round-peg-square-hole this thing all offseason and then into and through the season, and he did an extreme disservice to Mitch and the team in doing so. If Mitch is going to succeed this year Mitch needs to accept his role in this, but I think Nagy also needs to acknowledge to Mitch that he put him in position to fail a lot last year too and re-establish the trust that is needed here for this to work. Hopefully the presence of more established offensive coaches in Lazor and Flip will help protect Nagy from Nagy this year. We need success this year, but the goal is and has always been sustained success, and the most linear path to that remains making Trubisky successful. 

That's a key observation and one I believe even Nagy himself realizes.

One ingredient in this mix even Pace may not have anticipated was the pairing of an inexperienced HC with a relatively inexperienced young QB who badly needed some coaching.  The problem as I see it is Nagy was ill equipped to do both simultaneously and still do everything else a HC should be doing and to a degree everything suffered because of it including Mitch's development.  For that reason alone it probably does make sense to correct that issue then give Mitch one more shot at things once done more correctly.

So while Nagy refuses to give up his play calling (which I still disagree with) at least he's recognized the need for other voices in how to scheme around Mitch's strengths vs his weaknesses and entrust others with putting that end of things together for him.  That I will give him mucho credit for at the very least.  In a sense it's much like letting other chefs prepare an entire menu based on what the kitchen staff can prepare well then as head chef he can decide what to serve on any given day as his specials.  It makes sense to me.

[dll2000]

6 minutes ago, soulman said:

That's a key observation and one I believe even Nagy himself realizes.

One ingredient in this mix even Pace may not have anticipated was the pairing of an inexperienced HC with a relatively inexperienced young QB who badly needed some coaching.  The problem as I see it is Nagy was ill equipped to do both simultaneously and still do everything else a HC should be doing and to a degree everything suffered because of it including Mitch's development.  For that reason alone it probably does make sense to correct that issue then give Mitch one more shot at things once done more correctly.

So while Nagy refuses to give up his play calling (which I still disagree with) at least he's recognized the need for other voices in how to scheme around Mitch's strengths vs his weaknesses and entrust others with putting that end of things together for him.  That I will give him mucho credit for at the very least.  In a sense it's much like letting other chefs prepare an entire menu based on what the kitchen staff can prepare well then as head chef he can decide what to serve on any given day as his specials.  It makes sense to me.

@AZBearsFan @topwop1

I think Nagy tries to be a HC and be a position coach and be an OC all at same time and it isn't smart.

It's funny that Reid is his mentor, but in getting HC job he said Reid prepares his coaching staff for HC jobs because he delegates and gives them real responsibility.   

Nagy has not given any other offensive coaches 'real responsibility'.   He tries to do everything and they are just advisors.  

 

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by dll2000

[dll2000]

I think its possible that MT with a better off season of practice that isn't a cluster looks entirely different and he is being misjudged to an extent.  

But maybe offseason practice is a cluster again.  

Maybe he gets his reps cut in half with a QB competition.

Just saying I have seen coaches take a QB that people thought for sure wasn't that good and all of sudden he is a stud.  Look at Burrow this season with a new coach.

Now it is same coach in Nagy so I wouldn't hold my breath.  But who knows.   Maybe Nagy will learn from his mistakes or maybe Mitch simply isn't good.

 

 

[soulman]

46 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

 

Spot on brother.  That was the sense of it that was coming from the media as well but Nagy kept excusing it telling everyone he wanted Mitch "challenged" by the defense every outing and I agree with you.  That never works with anything.

I keep referring to things like this using music and more importantly playing in ensemble with others as an example.  If you have a player or players who can't even keep time nothing will work.  That's a musical foundation just as OL/TE blocking is a football foundation.

So.....in music you don't keep on plowing ahead having the same old push you vs pull me trainwrecks until someone gets it.  They won't.  You stop and at least get your rhythm section linked up and playing in time with one another and with the correct "feel" and tempo for that song. Until you do that no one else will be able to execute their parts properly and it will remain a mess until it is fixed.

If that's what camp looked like last summer it's easy to see why we came out in the GB game looking like we did.

[dll2000]

1 minute ago, soulman said:

If that's what camp looked like last summer it's easy to see why we came out in the GB game looking like we did.

Yes.  You nailed it.  If drummer can't drum the notes or beat or whatever properly and is screwing up the song, he needs to go practice by himself a bit instead of wasting everyone's time.  You play without the drum for a bit.  Or you need a new drummer.  But nobody practicing because the drummer can't play is a waste of time.   It isn't that hard.  

I am watching Long literally beat himself with his fists because he is frustrated he just can't block guys in front of him in practice.  No coach is even talking to him.  

You can respect a veteran, but common.   You can't ignore glaring problems and hope they just get better.

 

 

[soulman]

25 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

@AZBearsFan @topwop1

I think Nagy tries to be a HC and be a position coach and be an OC all at same time and it isn't smart.

It's funny that Reid is his mentor, but in getting HC job he said Reid prepares his coaching staff for HC jobs because he delegates and gives them real responsibility.   

Nagy has not given any other offensive coaches 'real responsibility'.   He tries to do everything and they are just advisors.  

 

 

That's not altogether uncommon with an inexperienced manager of anything.

I did that very same thing long ago feeling I needed to have a hand in everything until one day my team staged an "intervention".  They told me by my having to be so involved in everything we did I worked too many hours and was losing my edge plus they'd begun to believe I didn't trust them to do what they'd been taught or to use their own instincts based on how they knew I liked things done.

That was the very last day I micro-managed them or anyone else.

[soulman]

25 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Now it is same coach in Nagy so I wouldn't hold my breath.  But who knows.   Maybe Nagy will learn from his mistakes or maybe Mitch simply isn't good.

One way or another I believe we're gonna find out about both.  We've stayed focused on Mitch without considering the possibility that for all of his offensive acumen Matt Nagy simply isn't a good HC.