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The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Mariota and beyond


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9 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

He's also never been a homerun hitter as a rusher. He's very reliant on the blocking scheme and doesn't really have the speed or wiggle to compensate for a lesser O-line. 

I like Josh. He does his job well. But he's not an exciting big play RB. And I don't like how we've used him thus far. He's not a focal point of a great offense without, as you said, getting force-fed. I hope they use Drake more than they used Booker last year. 

That is also part of the reason why Booker had a better yards per carry.  Josh is going to get you positive yards more often then most backs but will not have those big gain runs that elevate the yards per carry numbers.

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1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

He's also never been a homerun hitter as a rusher. He's very reliant on the blocking scheme and doesn't really have the speed or wiggle to compensate for a lesser O-line. 

I like Josh. He does his job well. But he's not an exciting big play RB. And I don't like how we've used him thus far. He's not a focal point of a great offense without, as you said, getting force-fed. I hope they use Drake more than they used Booker last year. 

I like josh too and he’s the perfect guy for a 3 headed monster rotation like at bama. He’s never had to be the #1 guy and it shows. I thought book would be a keeper and I don’t understand the drake pick up. I mean rbs are everywhere you don’t really have to pay for one or draft 1 in the 1st unless they’re future goats.

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1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

That is also part of the reason why Booker had a better yards per carry.  Josh is going to get you positive yards more often then most backs but will not have those big gain runs that elevate the yards per carry numbers.

I actually liked book a hellova lot 

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2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Meh josh is josh imo very good is a stretch we had to force feed him just to barely crack 1k. I admit the line wasn’t the best but we need players who don’t need perfection to be successful. Josh’s lack of speed imo will continue to keep him from being a top 10 rb. 

You don’t think he’s top 10? You’re vastly overestimating the run blocking then. Forget perfection they were god awful. He was getting hit in the backfield a ton. He was 3rd in the league in yards per game as a rookie. 3rd in the league in missed tackles behind Chubb and Henry over the last 2 seasons.

Those look like top 10 numbers to me. 

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18 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

You don’t think he’s top 10? You’re vastly overestimating the run blocking then. Forget perfection they were god awful. He was getting hit in the backfield a ton. He was 3rd in the league in yards per game as a rookie. 3rd in the league in missed tackles behind Chubb and Henry over the last 2 seasons.

Those look like top 10 numbers to me. 

top 10 in missed tackles doesn’t equal top 10 rb imo
 

Ok off the top who do you think are the top 10 rbs in the nfl I’m curious where you rank josh

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1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I actually liked book a hellova lot 

He looked good when we gave him the ball.  Problem is his production probably would have started to drop off with more carries.

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2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

You don’t think he’s top 10? You’re vastly overestimating the run blocking then. Forget perfection they were god awful. He was getting hit in the backfield a ton. He was 3rd in the league in yards per game as a rookie. 3rd in the league in missed tackles behind Chubb and Henry over the last 2 seasons.

Those look like top 10 numbers to me. 

I think he's top 10 with some caveats. 

He's a high volume back, which is going to show up on the raw stats sheet as productivity. But for his volume, he's not exactly high impact. He's a chain pushing grinder, not a home run hitter. 

He's a productive RB in a pass heavy league lacking true star RBs. Cook, Henry, CMC, and Chubb are STUDS. No offense to Alvin Kamara, but he's utilized way more in the passig game effectively than he is an effective RB. Granted, I'm willing to chalk it up to preference in how one wants to define/use a great RB, but I don't think Kamara would be considered much more than a fringe top 10 RB of the league weren't as pass heavy yet he's generally in top 5 conversations. 

I say this to say that I think Jacobs is considered a top 10 back based more on stats than overall talent. If a RB like Kamara is considered top 5, that speaks volumes about the league wide RB situation. Again, no offense to Kamara, he's a hell of a weapon, but a top 5 RB without a single 1000 yard rushing season? Erm...

Jacobs is good. He's useful. He has a purpose and place on the team and is worthy enough to start. But based on skillset and in relation to how other guys get utilized, I don't think he's truly among the 10 best RBs in the league. 

Henry, Cook, CMC, Chubb, Kamara, Gordon, CEH, Taylor, Jones, Montgomery, Elliott, Hunt are, I believe, clearly superior at the position. 

There's a plethora of other guys out there who are probably more efficient and physically gifted than Jacobs in Dobbins, Moss, Singletary, Drake might even be a more impactful RB than Jacobs if used as much. 

Then there's guys who haven't even really gotten their feet wet- rookies and 2nd year guys who are projected to be stars. 

So i personally don't consider Jacobs to be one of the 10 best backs in the league overall. But I think he's more than capable of being a long term starter. I just think he's more of the plug and play type than true stud you make the centerpiece of the offense. He's good, but far from transcendent.

Edited by ronjon1990
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2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

He looked good when we gave him the ball.  Problem is his production probably would have started to drop off with more carries.

Yeah, Booker is a solid but not spectacular RB2. Good guy to have around to take some load off, but not a guy who would have prolonged success filling in. A team could do far worse, but they'd also probably always be looking at his replacement sooner rather than later. 

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3 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

top 10 in missed tackles doesn’t equal top 10 rb imo
 

Ok off the top who do you think are the top 10 rbs in the nfl I’m curious where you rank josh

Off the top of my head:

saquon 

kamara

henry 

mccaffrey 

chubb

cook

taylor

jones 

zeke

jacobs 

He’s in there. There is clearly a top tier of those top 5 or 6 though. I value his ability to get tough yards more than hit home runs. A lot of the lack of home runs is blocking related.

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1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

I think he's top 10 with some caveats. 

He's a high volume back, which is going to show up on the raw stats sheet as productivity. But for his volume, he's not exactly high impact. He's a chain pushing grinder, not a home run hitter. 

He's a productive RB in a pass heavy league lacking true star RBs. Cook, Henry, CMC, and Chubb are STUDS. No offense to Alvin Kamara, but he's utilized way more in the passig game effectively than he is an effective RB. Granted, I'm willing to chalk it up to preference in how one wants to define/use a great RB, but I don't think Kamara would be considered much more than a fringe top 10 RB of the league weren't as pass heavy yet he's generally in top 5 conversations. 

I say this to say that I think Jacobs is considered a top 10 back based more on stats than overall talent. If a RB like Kamara is considered top 5, that speaks volumes about the league wide RB situation. Again, no offense to Kamara, he's a hell of a weapon, but a top 5 RB without a single 1000 yard rushing season? Erm...

Jacobs is good. He's useful. He has a purpose and place on the team and is worthy enough to start. But based on skillset and in relation to how other guys get utilized, I don't think he's truly among the 10 best RBs in the league. 

Henry, Cook, CMC, Chubb, Kamara, Gordon, CEH, Taylor, Jones, Montgomery, Elliott, Hunt are, I believe, clearly superior at the position. 

There's a plethora of other guys out there who are probably more efficient and physically gifted than Jacobs in Dobbins, Moss, Singletary, Drake might even be a more impactful RB than Jacobs if used as much. 

Then there's guys who haven't even really gotten their feet wet- rookies and 2nd year guys who are projected to be stars. 

So i personally don't consider Jacobs to be one of the 10 best backs in the league overall. But I think he's more than capable of being a long term starter. I just think he's more of the plug and play type than true stud you make the centerpiece of the offense. He's good, but far from transcendent.

I respect it but disagree. I think we’ve yet to see his best and once we get some more holes open people will see how good I think he is.

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33 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Off the top of my head:

saquon 

kamara

henry 

mccaffrey 

chubb

cook

taylor

jones 

zeke

jacobs 

He’s in there. There is clearly a top tier of those top 5 or 6 though. I value his ability to get tough yards more than hit home runs. A lot of the lack of home runs is blocking related.

I agree he’s good on tough short yardage situations sometimes but you don’t draft a rb in the 1st to be a tough yardage specialist imo. 
 

I also agree on his lack of long runs being blocking related downfield blocking to be exact but his 4.66 speed doesn’t help and I don’t remember him breaking off big runs at bama iirc with a supreme supporting cast. 

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29 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I agree he’s good on tough short yardage situations sometimes but you don’t draft a rb in the 1st to be a tough yardage specialist imo. 
 

I also agree on his lack of long runs being blocking related downfield blocking to be exact but his 4.66 speed doesn’t help and I don’t remember him breaking off big runs at bama iirc with a supreme supporting cast. 

He averaged 5.9 yards per carry through 3 years.  HIs average dropped to 5.3 in his Junior when he carried the ball 120 times.  He only had 299 touches through 3 years at Bama.

He gets caught from behind a lot in college.  I still the love the guy but he was get chased down from LBs in college.  That means d-linemen will catch him in the pros.

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3 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

He averaged 5.9 yards per carry through 3 years.  HIs average dropped to 5.3 in his Junior when he carried the ball 120 times.  He only had 299 touches through 3 years at Bama.

He gets caught from behind a lot in college.  I still the love the guy but he was get chased down from LBs in college.  That means d-linemen will catch him in the pros.

Even at bama he was good for one 40+ yard run a season. And that’s about what he’s done so far in the nfl.

That’s not gonna cut it in the nfl. Especially if you want to be considered top 10. 

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17 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

You don’t think he’s top 10? You’re vastly overestimating the run blocking then. Forget perfection they were god awful. He was getting hit in the backfield a ton. He was 3rd in the league in yards per game as a rookie. 3rd in the league in missed tackles behind Chubb and Henry over the last 2 seasons.

Those look like top 10 numbers to me. 

He was also top 5 in yards of 20+ runs as a rookie (1 rush less than Henry in less games, 2 more than McCaffrey and 1 more than Dalvin Cook) and 9th I belive among RBs in runs of 40+ yards, which directly goes against the idea that he hasn't shown the ability to be a big play RB. 

His long speed plays a factor in turning 30+ yard runs into 70 yard TDs, as a rookie it absolutely did not play a factor in making 20+ yard runs however and that is far more important because the 50+ yard type runs happen even for the elite long speed, big play backs happen like once or twice per season. 

Edited by Mr Raider
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