The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[Rich7sena]

For Raiders fans, you all sure have high expectations. How many would have been disappointed with a 2-2 start at the beginning of the season? How many would have been disappointed if Carr's stat line was 8 TDs, 0 INTs, and over 1,000 yards in 4 games? What if I told you by the 4th game Tyrell Williams, Henry Ruggs, and Bryan Edwards would be out?

Look around the league. DeShaun Watson is 0-4, Carson Wentz is 1-2-1, Dak Prescott is 1-3, Kirk Cousins is 1-3, Matthew Stafford is 1-3, Matt Ryan is 0-3.

Please, please, please Jon Gruden trade Carr. This fanbase does not deserve him.

[bucksavage1]

2 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

For Raiders fans, you all sure have high expectations. How many would have been disappointed with a 2-2 start at the beginning of the season? How many would have been disappointed if Carr's stat line was 8 TDs, 0 INTs, and over 1,000 yards in 4 games? What if I told you by the 4th game Tyrell Williams, Henry Ruggs, and Bryan Edwards would be out?

Look around the league. DeShaun Watson is 0-4, Carson Wentz is 1-2-1, Dak Prescott is 1-3, Kirk Cousins is 1-3, Matthew Stafford is 1-3, Matt Ryan is 0-3.

Please, please, please Jon Gruden trade Carr. This fanbase does not deserve him.

Do you think we beat KC next week?

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

Do you think we beat KC next week?

Probably not. But do you think we hold them under 35 points?

[BayRaider]

18 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

For Raiders fans, you all sure have high expectations. How many would have been disappointed with a 2-2 start at the beginning of the season? How many would have been disappointed if Carr's stat line was 8 TDs, 0 INTs, and over 1,000 yards in 4 games? What if I told you by the 4th game Tyrell Williams, Henry Ruggs, and Bryan Edwards would be out?

Look around the league. DeShaun Watson is 0-4, Carson Wentz is 1-2-1, Dak Prescott is 1-3, Kirk Cousins is 1-3, Matthew Stafford is 1-3, Matt Ryan is 0-3.

Please, please, please Jon Gruden trade Carr. This fanbase does not deserve him.

You’re so obsessed with stats. Watch the games and watch how Carr plays. Is he having a bad season? No. But you always try to hype up Carr as some Top 10 QB when he absolutely is not one. 
 

Yes we have high standards. As every fanbase should. The goal is to win a Super Bowl. We’ve seen this story before where a franchise keeps a QB that’s not good enough to win the big dance. Many franchises make that mistake. The only reason Carr is the QB is because we haven’t been in range to draft someone better, which is the correct decision on Mayocks part. However, if someone better presents themselves in the draft, you take them. I’d take Lawrence, Lance, and even Fields over Carr. I’m big on Lawrence and Lance and I think Fields would be a slight upgrade. 
 

Carr is the same guy he’s always been. Ultra conservative. He’s been this way his entire career except the 4th QTR of 2015 and 2016. Teams have been playing him shallow since Week 3 of 2017 and not respecting anything past 15 yards. 
 

- Carr constantly throws short of the chains on 3rd down. He has done this consistently since Early 2017. 
 

- Carr does NOT make teammates around him better and elevate their play. You will probably say this is a myth as you are a pure numbers guy, but I assure you it’s not a myth. I have see Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Brees, Wilson, and lesser guys like Stafford, Romo, Ben, Rivers, etc elevate players around them. 
 

- Carr to me just does not have the toughness these other QBs have. Am I saying Carr is a weakling? No, but he simply doesn’t have the toughness those guys do. 
 

- Carr has never played fearless football. He’s hesitant, conservative, and rarely gives guys chances. To succeed in the NFL, you MUST throw in tight windows. Carr HATES throwing in tight windows. Always has. Even in 2015 and 2016. Look at Brady, Wilson, Mahomes, Rodgers, Prescott, Stafford, Ryan, Allen, Watson, etc they are fearless. If you think Carr has this personality, you are sorely mistaken. 
 

Is Carr having a bad season? No. Is Carr a bad QB? No. Is he anywhere near as good as you are hyping him up as...? No. Outside of Raider Fan bias, he’s consistently ranked 15-18. He’s a middle of the road QB, that will probably never get you a Super Bowl unless you have a 2013 Seattle Defense or 2015 Denver Defense. 
 

That is just cold hard reality. 

Edited October 5, 2020 by BayRaider

[Jerry]

14 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

Do you think we beat KC next week?

Which team do you think in the NFL has the best chance to beat KC?  They're going to beat up on the Patriots this week if Newton isn't playing which I believe he isn't.  They just made Lamar Jackson, current MVP, look like trash (15-28, 97 YDS, 1 TD, 83 yards on 9 carries, 4 sacks).  KC is easily capable of going 14-2 to 15-1 this season.  Maybe a loss because they rest their starters before they walk into the playoffs as the number 1 seed.  Obviously this projected win/loss ratio is if they stay relatively healthy (Mahomes).  Still can't believe they couldn't run away with the W against the Chargers but that was apparently an off game for them.  I don't see that happening too often this season with the way they are playing right now.

So yeah my answer to that is obviously not.  Defense would have to play defense which hasn't happened yet and Derek Carr would need for the referees to get out of the way so we can actually score.  No more fumbles from D. Waller and Jacobs too.  Actual OL protection for 4 quarters too while we are at it.

[NYRaider]

8 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Is Carr having a bad season? No. Is Carr a bad QB? No. Is he anywhere near as good as you are hyping him up as...? No. Outside of Raider Fan bias, he’s consistently ranked 15-18. He’s a middle of the road QB, that will probably never get you a Super Bowl unless you have a 2013 Seattle Defense or 2015 Denver Defense. 

That is just cold hard reality. 

You could put Patrick Mahomes or Russell Wilson onto our roster this year and we still wouldn't be able to win a Super Bowl. It's impossible to win consistently in the NFL without being able to pressure the QB, generate turnovers, or limit your opponents scoring. 

[Jerry]

5 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

You’re so obsessed with stats. Watch the games and watch how Carr plays. Is he having a bad season? No. But you always try to hype up Carr as some Top 10 QB when he absolutely is not one. 
 

Yes we have high standards. As every fanbase should. The goal is to win a Super Bowl. We’ve seen this story before where a franchise keeps a QB that’s not good enough to win the big dance. Many franchises make that mistake. The only reason Carr is the QB is because we haven’t been in range to draft someone better, which is the correct decision on Mayocks part. However, if someone better presents themselves in the draft, you take them. I’d take Lawrence, Lance, and even Fields over Carr. I’m big on Lawrence and Lance and I think Fields would be a slight upgrade. 
 

Carr is the same guy he’s always been. Ultra conservative. He’s been this way his entire career except the 4th QTR of 2015 and 2016. Teams have been playing him shallow since Week 3 of 2017 and not respecting anything past 15 yards. 
 

- Carr constantly throws short of the chains on 3rd down. He has done this consistently since Early 2017. 
 

- Carr does NOT make teammates around him better and elevate their play. You will probably say this is a myth as you are a pure numbers guy, but I assure you it’s not a myth. I have see Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Brees, Wilson, and lesser guys like Stafford, Romo, Ben, Rivers, etc elevate players around them. 
 

- Carr to me just does not have the toughness these other QBs have. Am I saying Carr is a weakling? No, but he simply doesn’t have the toughness those guys do. 
 

- Carr has never played fearless football. He’s hesitant, conservative, and rarely gives guys chances. To succeed in the NFL, you MUST throw in tight windows. Carr HATES throwing in tight windows. Always has. Even in 2015 and 2016. Look at Brady, Wilson, Mahomes, Rodgers, Prescott, Stafford, Ryan, Allen, Watson, etc they are fearless. If you think Carr has this personality, you are sorely mistaken. 
 

Is Carr having a bad season? No. Is Carr a bad QB? No. Is he anywhere near as good as you are hyping him up as...? No. Outside of Raider Fan bias, he’s consistently ranked 15-18. He’s a middle of the road QB, that will probably never get you a Super Bowl unless you have a 2013 Seattle Defense or 2015 Denver Defense. 
 

That is just cold hard reality. 

His defense has never even ranked in the top 15.  Those two defenses were top 5 from what I can recall.  You can't even argue this because he's never had close to anything like those defenses.  So you really don't know.  If Carr had a defense like those and we couldn't make the playoffs I would completely agree with you and demand we move on from Carr as well.  However, Carr has 1000 yards in 4 games (projected 4000 yards), 8 TDs (projected 32 TDs), and roughly a 73% completion percentage.  Against the Bills I saw him take off for a first down.  He threw a beautiful pass for a TD that was called back.  He was throwing into tight windows trying to make plays.  The running game never got started and the defense took the day off.  I just don't get why people are pointing at DC when the OL can't even block for Jacobs, we lost our 3 starting WRs, AND DC STILL HAD A GOOD GAME.  Seriously, the defense should file a lawsuit for the last four assaults they've had to endure from weeks 1-4.  If our defense was a person we'd be pronouncing them as deceased after this KC game.

[NYRaider]

7 minutes ago, Jerry said:

So yeah my answer to that is obviously not.  Defense would have to play defense which hasn't happened yet and Derek Carr would need for the referees to get out of the way so we can actually score.  No more fumbles from D. Waller and Jacobs too.  Actual OL protection for 4 quarters too while we are at it.

I don't think there's any QB in the league that could go into KC and win without his top 3 WR and with a defense allowing 30+ ppg while also generating no pass rush or turnovers. 

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

You could put Patrick Mahomes or Russell Wilson onto our roster this year and we still wouldn't be able to win a Super Bowl. It's impossible to win consistently in the NFL without being able to pressure the QB, generate turnovers, or limit your opponents scoring. 

Mahomes and Wilson would be miles better than Carr on our team right now, I assure you. Those two are wayyyyy better than Carr, like literally not even close. Not to mention those two make everyone around them better, and can use their legs to extend plays. We’d probably be a 10-11 win wildcard team with those two. I don’t see that with Carr. I see 8 wins max. 

[Jerry]

Just now, NYRaider said:

I don't think there's any QB in the league that could go into KC and win without his top 3 WR and with a defense allowing 30+ ppg while also generating no pass rush or turnovers. 

And not to knock Josh Jacobs, but he's currently averaging 3.6 YPC, which I blame the OL for.  They can pass block all day but when it's time to pound the rock they fall apart.

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, Jerry said:

His defense has never even ranked in the top 15.  Those two defenses were top 5 from what I can recall.  You can't even argue this because he's never had close to anything like those defenses.  So you really don't know.  If Carr had a defense like those and we couldn't make the playoffs I would completely agree with you and demand we move on from Carr as well.  However, Carr has 1000 yards in 4 games (projected 4000 yards), 8 TDs (projected 32 TDs), and roughly a 73% completion percentage.  Against the Bills I saw him take off for a first down.  He threw a beautiful pass for a TD that was called back.  He was throwing into tight windows trying to make plays.  The running game never got started and the defense took the day off.  I just don't get why people are pointing at DC when the OL can't even block for Jacobs, we lost our 3 starting WRs, AND DC STILL HAD A GOOD GAME.  Seriously, the defense should file a lawsuit for the last four assaults they've had to endure from weeks 1-4.  If our defense was a person we'd be pronouncing them as deceased after this KC game.

There have only been 5 teams in the last 5 seasons to make the playoffs while allowing 24+ ppg: 2018 - Rams, Chiefs + 2016: Packers, Raiders, Falcons. 

[Rich7sena]

23 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

Do you think we beat KC next week?

Probably not. What is your point? KC is a much better team with the best quarterback in the league.

 

[Jerry]

Just now, BayRaider said:

Mahomes and Wilson would be miles better than Carr on our team right now, I assure you. Those two are wayyyyy better than Carr, like literally not even close. Not to mention those two make everyone around them better, and can use their legs to extend plays. We’d probably be a 10-11 win wildcard team with those two. I don’t see that with Carr. I see 8 wins max. 

Those are two QBs that are essentially generational talents.  You aren't drafting another Mahomes or Wilson anytime soon without a number one pick, and the only one who may become the next Mahomes or Wilson in the near future is probably Trevor Lawrence (if that crappy team can actually rebound or a top team trades up to the number 1 pick).  Burrow, sadly, looks like he's going to be getting destroyed as long as he plays behind the Bengals OL.  He's about to be sacked 60 times this season at the current pace they're going.  I could see us winning 10 games with those two QBs, but not many QBs would be able to win with our defense.  Our terrible, no good, very bad defense.

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Mahomes and Wilson would be miles better than Carr on our team right now, I assure you. Those two are wayyyyy better than Carr, like literally not even close. Not to mention those two make everyone around them better, and can use their legs to extend plays. We’d probably be a 10-11 win wildcard team with those two. I don’t see that with Carr. I see 8 wins max. 

We certainly would be better with either of those guys. But even those two for as great as they are have struggled in games their defense gave up 30+ points, Mahomes is 4-7 and Wilson is 7-16. 

[Jerry]

5 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

There have only been 5 teams in the last 5 seasons to make the playoffs while allowing 24+ ppg: 2018 - Rams, Chiefs + 2016: Packers, Raiders, Falcons. 

We aren't making the playoffs.  Not with this defense.