FreshPrince Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 What’s the Kelly blue book on a Carr like Derek? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 2 hours ago, NickButera said: I think Stafford is showing the league a new kind of way to win. Stafford has mostly been considered the 8th-13th best QB in the league. Before he went to the rams and won a superbowl he was considered more of a stat padder. But now his narrative has changed entirely, some people mention HOF possibilities if he keeps going. Rams just showed that winning with a top half of the league QB is very doable, and I'm expecting to see more teams emulate what they did. Trade away high picks for very good established players to pad a team who has some young talent to give them a 3-4 year window to win it. TBH I think we fit into that category perfectly but I don't see NE people trading away first rounders. This idea and precedent alone makes Carr a bit more valuable. This is a very scary statement. The Rams were an outlier and managed to do this by giving away their future, shrinking their window to win, and drafting a first ballot HOF at a very important defensive position. You really think that offense won the game. They did not have a bad game but that was a good defensive game with just enough scoring to make it entertaining. Both teams barely had over 300 yards of offense. You give Burrow a decent o-line and I am sure the Bengals win that game. The Rams have -$10 million in cap space and no picks til the 3rd round in 2022 and only 4 picks total in 2023. MIller, OBJ, and Michel are FA while Whitworth might retire. If he does not he is going to count $17 million against the cap and the only other players they can cut are big contributors. So they have no money and no draft picks to replace players. They got a championship but if they would have lost they would have looked more like us after we lost to TB. It is not a plan I would want to follow. I would rather go the Bengals route but we need to draft better. No reason why we should have not been able to replicate what the Bengals did if you think Carr is in the same class as Burrow. We just sucked at drafting and Carr is not taking 7 sacks and still competing at the end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 2 hours ago, BayRaider said: Apologies if I sound like I’m over reacting, I’m still waiting for the contract to be done and the details. Low 30’s is ok. Still not ideal, but I’ll live with low 30’s as long as keep Crosby as well. I just get tired of the franchise making the same circle of mistakes, over and over and over, for 20 years, and feel like fans do not give this team anywhere close to the criticism it deserves. We have made more dumb decisions in the past 20 years and no franchise even comes close to it. I thought it would change when Al passed (god rest his soul) but it hasn’t changed at all. We deserve a championship caliber football team. Edit: Like would anyone really be shocked if we let Crosby walk to pay Carr? I wouldn’t. And while fans would be angry at first, over half this forum would try to justify it after a 48-72 hour cooling down period. It’s just super annoying. I already know the logic. "It is okay that he walked because we drafted him with a 4th and are going to get a 3rd round comp pick. We won that one." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 36 minutes ago, FreshPrince said: What’s the Kelly blue book on a Carr like Derek? $33-35 million a year after getting $20 million in 2022. Not averaging it out over the next 3-4 years. That is the league value. For me to be happy it would have to be under $30 and preferably $25 million. I said before the 2021 season he would get $33 so lets see how close I got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldManWillis Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Man 40 mil a year for Carr?? Yuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 3 hours ago, BobbyPhil1781 said: So you can't show me where I said Apple was "my boy"? Just say it unless you have proof lol. It's not hard. You still haven't shown evidence to support your claim that Kupp isn't covered by the team's opposing top CBs. Don't be shocked no one is taking your word for it...... Jtagg lol really I provided 3 examples of games plus the super bowl if you choose to ignore that well that’s on you. at least you admit apple was guarding kupp during his 2 tds. Unless you consider apple the top cb on the bengals then there’s your 4th example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 1 hour ago, drfrey13 said: This is a very scary statement. The Rams were an outlier and managed to do this by giving away their future, shrinking their window to win, and drafting a first ballot HOF at a very important defensive position. You really think that offense won the game. They did not have a bad game but that was a good defensive game with just enough scoring to make it entertaining. Both teams barely had over 300 yards of offense. You give Burrow a decent o-line and I am sure the Bengals win that game. The Rams have -$10 million in cap space and no picks til the 3rd round in 2022 and only 4 picks total in 2023. MIller, OBJ, and Michel are FA while Whitworth might retire. If he does not he is going to count $17 million against the cap and the only other players they can cut are big contributors. So they have no money and no draft picks to replace players. They got a championship but if they would have lost they would have looked more like us after we lost to TB. It is not a plan I would want to follow. I would rather go the Bengals route but we need to draft better. No reason why we should have not been able to replicate what the Bengals did if you think Carr is in the same class as Burrow. We just sucked at drafting and Carr is not taking 7 sacks and still competing at the end. Every team that has ever won the super bowl is by definition an outlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 11 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Every team that has ever won the super bowl is by definition an outlier. Among SB champs the Rams are an outlier with how extreme they mortgaged their future. Let's say the Rams extend Stafford since he is a SB winning QB and you give him the same talked about 2 yr $40 million extension averaged over 3 years. The Rams would have given him an extra $11 million in 22 and $34 in 2023. That would drop their 2023 cap to $37 million with only 25 players under contract. They have 10 total picks over the next two years and the cap used for those picks should be around $13 million total over the 2 years. So lets assume they do a good job drafting and all 10 picks make the team. Now there is 35 players and $24 million left. They could cut a couple players but they are going to be impact players. McVay is smart to throw out retiring this year. Now he can say he is coming back for one more year and look like a hero before the Rams team gets blown up before the 2023 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 I do not know if anyone has seen this before but Spotrac does an NFL Value Ranking based upon production vs salary. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/valuation/2021/quarterback/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilshark69 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 9 hours ago, BayRaider said: Apologies if I sound like I’m over reacting, I’m still waiting for the contract to be done and the details. Low 30’s is ok. Still not ideal, but I’ll live with low 30’s as long as keep Crosby as well. I just get tired of the franchise making the same circle of mistakes, over and over and over, for 20 years, and feel like fans do not give this team anywhere close to the criticism it deserves. We have made more dumb decisions in the past 20 years and no franchise even comes close to it. I thought it would change when Al passed (god rest his soul) but it hasn’t changed at all. We deserve a championship caliber football team. Edit: Like would anyone really be shocked if we let Crosby walk to pay Carr? I wouldn’t. And while fans would be angry at first, over half this forum would try to justify it after a 48-72 hour cooling down period. It’s just super annoying. Just stop with this please!!! There isn’t a raider fan alive who liked us trading away Mack..... not 1!!! Period!! Yes there was people trying to look at the “silver lining” .....what else could they do? All of your over reacting baloney over some clickbait articles. But it’s A) your over inflated opinion of yourself and how much better your ideas are and B) your unrelenting dislike of Carr that’s truly super annoying!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilshark69 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 For the record h*ll no do I want to pay carr 40 mil. 30-35 is realistic. 25-30 would be ideal and team friendly. IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 6 hours ago, drfrey13 said: Among SB champs the Rams are an outlier with how extreme they mortgaged their future. Let's say the Rams extend Stafford since he is a SB winning QB and you give him the same talked about 2 yr $40 million extension averaged over 3 years. The Rams would have given him an extra $11 million in 22 and $34 in 2023. That would drop their 2023 cap to $37 million with only 25 players under contract. They have 10 total picks over the next two years and the cap used for those picks should be around $13 million total over the 2 years. So lets assume they do a good job drafting and all 10 picks make the team. Now there is 35 players and $24 million left. They could cut a couple players but they are going to be impact players. McVay is smart to throw out retiring this year. Now he can say he is coming back for one more year and look like a hero before the Rams team gets blown up before the 2023 season. Adding on to this, The Rams lost at the time high value like FAs Middleton, Joyner, Johnson and replaced them with comp picks who turned out to be starters. I believe the last 1st round pick they drafted on the team is Donald. After that it was Gurley and Goff They used 1st round trades on Ramsey, Goff and Stafford. Focused on mid round picks and ring chasers rentals like Miller and OBJ. This strategy takes great drafting, development , coaching and some luck. This is not a long term sustainable model and something for other teams to copy. Honestly, the Rams super bowl was as much luck as I’ve seen from a team who was not dominant. They collapsed vs TB. Were a dropped pick away from losing vs 49ers. The bengals game could have went either way especially if some of the false starts were called on the last drive The Bengals are actually a better example to build a team. They have 60 million in cap space to improve their team with the QB on a rookie deal who extension won’t reflect for another 3 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 8 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Jtagg lol really I provided 3 examples of games plus the super bowl if you choose to ignore that well that’s on you. at least you admit apple was guarding kupp during his 2 tds. Unless you consider apple the top cb on the bengals then there’s your 4th example Thanks for providing 5 plays to knock your point home. That might be more dumb than playing certain players during certain months like you've suggested. I'll spare the group from having to view this trash and let you think you're right lol. Good job, bud!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonGruber Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Devilshark69 said: For the record h*ll no do I want to pay carr 40 mil. 30-35 is realistic. 25-30 would be ideal and team friendly. IMO. 25-30 in theory with competent roster management the team can re-up the offense in particular Edited February 16, 2022 by SimonGruber 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilshark69 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 3 flippin years of Carr debate, and currently at least 3 threads taken by carr debate. SMH, sad and hilarious at the same time. Shouldn’t even be a debate this off-season due to lack of legitimate replacement. IMO. That being said I’m sure some will bring up Rogers or Wilson, yes they’re better options, that have FAT contract numbers are older and require stupid amounts of comp. I’ve already said it, if they don’t like Carr fine trade him and roll with MM this upcoming season and focus on next year or twos draft. And I’m not alone in this opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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