The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, BackinBlack said:

ok great.
I saw Santa Clause get bood off the field before too. 

both have nothing to do with the question I asked though

I would've respected Carr more for just forcing the ball into coverage. The game was over at that point and an interception wouldn't have changed anything at all. The fact that he threw it out of bounds with nothing to lose at that point of the game is just another example of how conservative he is and that is one of the reasons we haven't won a ton with him at QB. 

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said:

My thing with that is even if he does play the Texans record last season showed all of us that having a quarterback like him on your team does not automatically guarantee your team a playoff spot if your defense is garbage

Exactly.

It would be a waste of resources needed elsewhere no matter what. 

7 of our 8 losses came when we allowed over 30 points. This isn't to say the offense was perfect, but when you lose 31-35, 27-44, and 27-30, your offense isn't the problem. 

The Bills game, a 23-30 loss was also a winnable game. 

4 losses were 1 score games, 3 of which were in the aforementioned 7/8. The difference between us being a possible 12-4 and 8-8 rests mostly on the defense. 11-5 instead of 8-8 is almost entirely on the defense. 

The Patriots, Buccaneers, and Falcons games were inexcusable all around. The Colts game, heck, add them in too. There's 4 "team" losses. Still gotta find 4 to pin on Carr....oh, well, 31-35, 27-30, 23-30. There's 3 the defense didn't do it's job. Miami then? If I remember correctly, our D choked there too. 

So, even if we're going to play the game where we pin as much as reasonably possible on Carr, the offense carries the majority of the responsibility for 4 losses at most. 

24/32, 261 yards, 2 TD

32/44, 311 yards, 2 TD

24/36, 284 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT

23/31, 275 yards, 3 TD, 1 INT, 

31/45, 316, 2TD yards, 2 INT

21/34, 336 yards, 1 TD

Of those performances, if told your defense gave up 30+ in 5 of them, how many do you blame on the QB? 

People just don't get that lol

[BackinBlack]

Just now, NYRaider said:

I would've respected Carr more for just forcing the ball into coverage. The game was over at that point and an interception wouldn't have changed anything at all. The fact that he threw it out of bounds with nothing to lose at that point of the game is just another example of how conservative he is and that is one of the reasons we haven't won a ton with him at QB. 

Haha ok well again, not really answering the question. 

I think its safe to assume youre not answering because you know itd be B too. 

A TD wouldnt have changed anything either. Literally everyone was covered, and Carr extended the play pretty long IIRC. 

Carr being conservative may be a reason why we havent won a ton, but history shows that when Carr turns the ball over we lose. We do not have a team that can overcome turnovers unfortunately. Maybe this is why Carr plays it safe. 
We have a garvage D, it is the main reason we havent won a ton while Carr has been our QB.

Also, just to point out;
Carr was 25/34 262 yards, 2 tds 0 ints

DeAndre Washington 14 carries 53 yards
Jalen Ricard 7 carries 28 yards. 
Ingolg 1 carry -1 yard
So in total, 22 carries for 80 yards. . .

Thats not good, Classic Raider fans booing Carr, who had a decent game and letting the run game off scott free

Then on top of that;
Derrick Henry was over 100 on 18 carries and 2 tds
AJ Brown had 150 yards and 2 TDS.

-
As you pointed out, Raider fans bood Carr off the field. . . Maybe they were just booing the team off? 
Of those Stats Carr is only respectable numbers lol

But yes, please tell me how down 21 with 3 mins left, Carr throwing away on 4th down is why we dont win LOL.
Again, hold Carr accountable for everything. 
Let the run game and Dline off for doing next to nothing 
 

[drfrey13]

17 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Just think about the laughing stock we'd be over the last couple of years right now if we had done some of the kneejerk nonsense like:

Kept and paid Jared Cook

All on top of the actual dumb*** moves like trading Mack, sending multiple picks to Pittsburgh in exchange for their headache WRs, our draft reach fetish, etc. 

1) Signing Cook would not have been a bad move. It would have been a safe move and having both Cook and Waller would have helped Carr.  Maybe trading for Antonio Brown was a much better decision that year then re-signing Cook and running a lot of 2 TE sets or splitting one of them outside which they are both good at.  Resigning Cook would have been seen as a good move that year where we just threw money and draft picks away.

2) I wanted to keep Mack but at the same time I understood that the trade being good or bad was dependent on what we did with the draft picks and cap space.  We could have easily done more with what we got but that was not because it was a bad trade.  We just made stupid decisions with what we received.  Looking back I would have kept Mack if it meant we did not have the extra money to sign T Brown and maybe drafted a real RT in O Brown.

[ronjon1990]

Just now, drfrey13 said:

1) Signing Cook would not have been a bad move. It would have been a safe move and having both Cook and Waller would have helped Carr.  Maybe trading for Antonio Brown was a much better decision that year then re-signing Cook and running a lot of 2 TE sets or splitting one of them outside which they are both good at.  Resigning Cook would have been seen as a good move that year where we just threw money and draft picks away.

I've never liked Cook. His effort is atrociously inconsistent. Dude is a journeyman for a reason. 

[drfrey13]

4 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Haha ok well again, not really answering the question. 

I think its safe to assume youre not answering because you know itd be B too. 

A TD wouldnt have changed anything either. Literally everyone was covered, and Carr extended the play pretty long IIRC. 

Carr being conservative may be a reason why we havent won a ton, but history shows that when Carr turns the ball over we lose. We do not have a team that can overcome turnovers unfortunately. Maybe this is why Carr plays it safe. 
We have a garvage D, it is the main reason we havent won a ton while Carr has been our QB.

Also, just to point out;
Carr was 25/34 262 yards, 2 tds 0 ints

DeAndre Washington 14 carries 53 yards
Jalen Ricard 7 carries 28 yards. 
Ingolg 1 carry -1 yard
So in total, 22 carries for 80 yards. . .

Thats not good, Classic Raider fans booing Carr, who had a decent game and letting the run game off scott free

Then on top of that;
Derrick Henry was over 100 on 18 carries and 2 tds
AJ Brown had 150 yards and 2 TDS.

-
As you pointed out, Raider fans bood Carr off the field. . . Maybe they were just booing the team off? 
Of those Stats Carr is only respectable numbers lol

But yes, please tell me how down 21 with 3 mins left, Carr throwing away on 4th down is why we dont win LOL.
Again, hold Carr accountable for everything. 
Let the run game and Dline off for doing next to nothing 
 

Look I understand what you are saying but as a fan you never want to see your players, especially your captain, quit no matter how bad it gets.  At the same time I do not think he should have tried to run over a LB either.  He needed to put it where a player could have made a play and who cares if it is intercepted.  Most fans would look at it as he did not quit and at least tried to give someone a chance.  You throw it away and we all know you quit.  Risking injury or quitting are both bad decisions.  Throwing a pick when trying to create to is not.  It did not make a difference in the game but made a difference in how we think you play the game.  

[drfrey13]

5 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I've never liked Cook. His effort is atrociously inconsistent. Dude is a journeyman for a reason. 

You can not like him but he played like a top 5-7 TE while he was here and has had a decent career.  It was the safe move because Waller was an unproven product with a ton of potential.  It worked out but it does not mean it was not a big risk.

[NYRaider]

14 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Haha ok well again, not really answering the question. 

I think its safe to assume youre not answering because you know itd be B too. 

A TD wouldnt have changed anything either. Literally everyone was covered, and Carr extended the play pretty long IIRC. 

Carr being conservative may be a reason why we havent won a ton, but history shows that when Carr turns the ball over we lose. We do not have a team that can overcome turnovers unfortunately. Maybe this is why Carr plays it safe. 
We have a garvage D, it is the main reason we havent won a ton while Carr has been our QB.

Also, just to point out;
Carr was 25/34 262 yards, 2 tds 0 ints

DeAndre Washington 14 carries 53 yards
Jalen Ricard 7 carries 28 yards. 
Ingolg 1 carry -1 yard
So in total, 22 carries for 80 yards. . .

Thats not good, Classic Raider fans booing Carr, who had a decent game and letting the run game off scott free

Then on top of that;
Derrick Henry was over 100 on 18 carries and 2 tds
AJ Brown had 150 yards and 2 TDS.

-
As you pointed out, Raider fans bood Carr off the field. . . Maybe they were just booing the team off? 
Of those Stats Carr is only respectable numbers lol

But yes, please tell me how down 21 with 3 mins left, Carr throwing away on 4th down is why we dont win LOL.
Again, hold Carr accountable for everything. 
Let the run game and Dline off for doing next to nothing 
 

You're really supporting this play? 

 

[BackinBlack]

1 minute ago, drfrey13 said:

Look I understand what you are saying but as a fan you never want to see your players, especially your captain, quit no matter how bad it gets.  At the same time I do not think he should have tried to run over a LB either.  He needed to put it where a player could have made a play and who cares if it is intercepted.  Most fans would look at it as he did not quit and at least tried to give someone a chance.  You throw it away and we all know you quit.  Risking injury or quitting are both bad decisions.  Throwing a pick when trying to create to is not.  It did not make a difference in the game but made a difference in how we think you play the game.  

we had no WR create space for like 4 seconds. 
Carr rolled to the right, where he had Carrier and Zay Jones. 
Carrier was running left, when Carr was running right, Sure Carr coulve tried this pass, but it is almost impossible. 

It also wouldve been to Carrier who wouldve been running right into 2 players. A suicide pass 100%, and with Carr running to the right, there is no way he can get enough juice on the ball. It wouldve been soft, and Carrier wouldve been crushed if pass was good.

cant really tell what Zay was doing in the back corner, but I do agree, why not at least lob it up towards the back corner. 

Honestly, Carr made the mistake off not throwing the ball to Tyrell at the start of the play to the outside. 
He then tried to keep play alive, but rinning to the right really sewered him. 
Also watching that, it is clear our recievers dont practice what to do after the play breaks down

 

[BackinBlack]

4 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

You're really supporting this play? 

 

LOL I am just not using a garbage time play to define a players career. 
Carr shouldve thrown the fade to Tyrell to back corner looking back, but it wouldve been a 50-50 ball, and Carr tried to extend the play for a better shot. 
Unfortunately, when a team only rushes 3 in the goalline, they are going to have a lot of players sitting in a zone. (Do you understand why this is important?, if not no worries)
 

[ronjon1990]

7 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Look I understand what you are saying but as a fan you never want to see your players, especially your captain, quit no matter how bad it gets.  At the same time I do not think he should have tried to run over a LB either.  He needed to put it where a player could have made a play and who cares if it is intercepted.  Most fans would look at it as he did not quit and at least tried to give someone a chance.  You throw it away and we all know you quit.  Risking injury or quitting are both bad decisions.  Throwing a pick when trying to create to is not.  It did not make a difference in the game but made a difference in how we think you play the game.  

But Jared Cook was a top 5-7 TE? 

Ok....

[BackinBlack]

What I find funny again, is lets only blame Derek Carr for this play. 
Derek Carr extends the play for 8 seconds before he throws the ball away. 

You know what I see this play;
Tyrell run a lazy route, and stop. (IE Gave up on the play before Carr did)
Richard/ Washington (cant tell) again run a pretty lazy route, and not much hustle tryig to get back into play. (IE gave up before Carr did)

Darren Waller, not rolling with Carr to the right and standing still (IE Gave up before Carr did)
Derek Carrier, running across the QBs body, in opposite direction (Just not what I was ever taught to do, you run with your qb to help them)

a 3 man rush, have 2 people in Carrs face, while 3 of the oline are standing watching from the pocket. 

-
Carr is literally the last player on the Raiders to give up that play. Maybe not Zay jones. (Cant tell)

 

[NYRaider]

6 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

LOL I am just not using a garbage time play to define a players career. 

I never said it "defines" his career, it's just an example of Carr being Carr. Dude plays scared even when there's nothing to lose. 

[BackinBlack]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

I never said it "defines" his career, it's just an example of Carr being Carr. Dude plays scared even when there's nothing to lose. 

Ok well see my post above, literally everyone else had given up on that play before Carr. 

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Ok well see my post above, literally everyone else had given up on that play before Carr. 

Why do quarterbacks get all the love for winning but when Carr losses it's everyone else's fault?