onejayhawk Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Wilt is the best player in the history of basketball by a wide margin. Both Lebron and Michael have been proposed, but neither has the separation from his peers, or each other, that Chamberlain does nor the variety of skills. The man once led the league in assists. For power back, where is the Marion Motley love? He was a 260 pound back in an era of 250 pound OL. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daineraider Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Bo knows shoulder pads. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaKid7 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Marion Barber was fun to watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Brandon Jacobs was a modern day Christian Okoye. Both were quintessential "power backs". There might never be a RB as big as Jacobs. He played at 6'4", 264 lbs. Derrick Henry is talked about as big but is an inch shorter and 20 pounds lighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzane Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 On 10/9/2017 at 12:17 PM, PapaShogun said: Meh. Love Rice, but he was caught from behind every so often. Darrell Green does it in this video at the 40 second mark. Granted, both players were in the twilight of their careers with Green being older. But yeah, Rice was caught from behind unless he clearly had a few steps on someone at the ball was thrown in front of him like most receivers. His speed was underrated though I'll say that. Still wasn't a burner from the jump, but I think he just relied on his route running to get that seperation down the field more so than just speed. Which is why guys like him or Issac Bruce played well into their later years. That route running. Darrell Green was recognized as the fastest man in the NFL for many, many years, getting caught from behind by him, was a given and in no way suggests Rice was slow and he was in the twilight of his career and obviously had lost a step or 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 On 10/10/2017 at 10:34 AM, onejayhawk said: Wilt is the best player in the history of basketball by a wide margin. Both Lebron and Michael have been proposed, but neither has the separation from his peers, or each other, that Chamberlain does nor the variety of skills. The man once led the league in assists. For power back, where is the Marion Motley love? He was a 260 pound back in an era of 250 pound OL. J Look, I loved watching Chamberlain play and was extremely impressed by the way he completely changed his game to become more of a championship threat, but Bill Russell did win 9 championships in a row playing against him and I believe 10 in 11 seasons. So I would put him ahead of them all as far performance is concerned. He basically averaged 20 rebounds a season and it was almost impossible to get your shot off against him, as his defense was superb. 2 other players deserve honorable mention in naming of the greatest NBA players of all time, Olajuwon and Bill Walton, before the Russian destroyed his knees. Both of these guys completely shocked me when I first saw them play. Olajuwon who did practically nothing until his junior year in college after coming from Africa, then exploded on the scene, but even more surprising was Walton, who came from a middle class high school and replaced UCLA's greatest player Kareem Abdul Jabbar who had led them to 4 national championships. I thought as an easterner at the time, that finally an eastern team might win the championship, and even though UCLA was undefeated going into March madness, I could not believe they could be as good as they were with Kareem. You see back then, we never got to see most teams including UCLA play until the championship round. I'll only say this, only 5 times in my life have I ever been shocked to see an athlete perform for the 1st time, 1)Olajuwon, 2)Walton, 3) Muhumad Ali 4) George Foreman in the Olympics and Shaquille O'Neal. 1) Houston was leading the nation and I was anxious to see their star Olajuwon play since he had done practically nothing for 2 years in Houston and suddenly burst on the scene. What I saw was a 7 footer with size who could run faster than any other player on the court and had skill. 2) As I said before, the whole country except UCLA fans, were sick of UCLA winning National Championships with Kareem as their Center(4 in a row) and finally he had graduated and I though an eastern team might actually get to be champion at last, that is until I saw Walton, a middle class student, play in the Championship game. He was practically the greatest defender I had ever seen, blocking shot after shot anywhere close to he basket. It was absolutely impossible to score close to the basket with him in the game and for good measure, he scored 44 points. I had never seen anything like it. 3) Muhumad Ali, We had all heard how he was predicting the round he would knock out his opponents when he first appeared on the Heavyweight scene, but we never for a minute thought he was good enough to keep it up as he faced tougher opponents. Finally I got a chance to see him box and I had never seen an athlete who could move as fast as Ali. He could go in and throw 4 or 5 punches before his opponent could even react and was back out of reach before his opponent got 1 punch in. You could actually see why he could call the round, because in reality, after about 3 rounds, his opponent was done and barely able to still stand up, so Ali could have finished him at any time he chose. 4) George Foreman at the Olympics The Gold metal bout was against a Russian coal miner who was obviously as tough as nail and a huge man. The Russians were determined to win at all costs. I have watched an awful lot of boxing in my lifetime, but Foreman hit that guy so hard, so many times, you thought for a moment that he might just kill him and it wasn't very long before the Russians were waving a white towel and giving up. I can still hear the sound of those punches. 5) Shaquille O'Neal It still brings a smile to my face when I think of the first time I saw O'Neal play in a high school All Star game and they listed him as the 10th best prospect in the country. After about 2 or 3 minutes of watching him, I said to myself, if this guy is the 10th best prospect, I'll eat my hat. He was so dominating that it was quite obvious that whoever had made up those rankings needed a new profession. These 5 cases, I can honestly say, that my jaw dropped to the ground within a few minutes of watching them play. It has probably happened a few times more, but these 5 cases stick in my mind. I guess I should stop rambling on, now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASmithFan1010 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I don't know why Jacobs is getting so much love. I remember him refusing to go downhill and getting destroyed a bunch of times. He was horrible on the 49ers, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I am guessing you saw Wilt after 1970. Wilt owned Russell. Russell was enough to slow Chamberlain down, but no more than that. In a full season or head to head, Wilt had more than two more rebounds per game and 15 more points. Wilt was the better passer, by far, and the defense is at least comparable., I really wish blocked shots records went back that far. Wilt's Warrior and 76'er teams kept getting knocked out because of the rest of the roster. Only three times did Wilt have a comparable team around him, including 1967 and 1971. Championships are not the only standard. If they are, you get to be like Arnie Spanyer, the idiot that claimed Bobby Hurley was a better player than Penny Hardaway. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 6 hours ago, Iamcanadian said: Darrell Green was recognized as the fastest man in the NFL for many, many years, getting caught from behind by him, was a given and in no way suggests Rice was slow and he was in the twilight of his career and obviously had lost a step or 2. I didn't say Rice was slow. I said he has been caught from behind before multiple times. Green was also in the twilight of his career in that clip. He's older than Rice was. I'd say John Taylor, Rice's teammate was faster if we're talking just pure foot race speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 4:38 AM, minutemancl said: Brandon Jacobs was a modern day Christian Okoye. Both were quintessential "power backs". There might never be a RB as big as Jacobs. He played at 6'4", 264 lbs. Derrick Henry is talked about as big but is an inch shorter and 20 pounds lighter. Playing that tall would make it easier for defenders to tackle you though. Okoye was more dangerous because he was 6'1". You couldn't take shots at his knees or lower section as easy as you could someone like Jacobs. Players were forced to take him down at pad level. Same with Bettis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 18 minutes ago, onejayhawk said: I am guessing you saw Wilt after 1970. Wilt owned Russell. Russell was enough to slow Chamberlain down, but no more than that. In a full season or head to head, Wilt had more than two more rebounds per game and 15 more points. Wilt was the better passer, by far, and the defense is at least comparable., I really wish blocked shots records went back that far. Wilt's Warrior and 76'er teams kept getting knocked out because of the rest of the roster. Only three times did Wilt have a comparable team around him, including 1967 and 1971. Championships are not the only standard. If they are, you get to be like Arnie Spanyer, the idiot that claimed Bobby Hurley was a better player than Penny Hardaway. J I saw Wilt's whole career, being 74 gave me the time to see about every great player in every sport except baseball. Wilt did not become a threat to win a championship till he completely changed his style of play and concentrated on rebounding and defense. His scoring dropped to about 18 points per game after that as he only used the dunk to score, from the 50 points per game before the switch over, so stating Wilt scored 15 points more per game than Russell is totally misleading. Until he did the change over, he was a defensive liability as his jump shot from 3 feet which was his main scoring tool, simply took him away from the basket as a rebounder, which is the reason he remade his style of play. Yes, when he was scoring 50 points per game he definitely left everybody in his wake as a scorer, but he could not win championships. During that period, he was a weak defender by his own admission and that is why he completely changed his style of play. Come on, winning 9 championships in a row and 10 in eleven years is hardly like comparing Spanyer to Hardaway. oh yea, he was injured in his 10th season, the year the Celtics lost the championship, so I would have to say, his performance had an awful lot to do with their winning championships. I give Wilt all the credit in the world, it took real guts to switch from a 50 points per game scorer to an 18 points per game guy in order to compete for championships, the greedy players today would never attempt it and give up all that limelight, however, after the change over in style, he definitely became a far better all round player and a serious threat to win championships, but even then, he was at best, the equal to Russell maybe. I do not think he was ever as good a defender as Russell, but he came close. I'd rate them equals as rebounders after the switch and Russell was never more than a 15.5 scorer his whole career, but Wilt was 3 inches taller and outweighed him by around 80lbs, so he definitely had a lot more opportunities to dunk. In my humble opinion, Russell dominated his era far more than Jordan or James did theirs, but I would have to rate James as the greatest player I have ever seen, Jordan won more championships, but the quality of play during his era, isn't even close to the type of talent playing today. So, you see, I am not always stuck in the past, I can rate greatness when I see it and being the 2nd best player of his generation is no mean feat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 You are saying that Wilt lacked good coaching til he learned to self coach. That's valid. It's also true he was dragging mediocre or even poor teams into the playoffs. Russell was on the Basketball version of the Yankees. The Celtics would have been championship contenders without him. The best way of saying it is the KC Jones factor. KC is in the Hall of Fame and was on 8 championship teams. Not so the All Star game. There were always three Celtics deemed better players. Russell and Cousey were annual picks, until Cousey retired, but there was always a third player ahead of Jones, whether it was Heinsohn, Sharman, Sam Jones, Sanders, Havlicek. KC never made an All Star game. For the first half of his career, Wilt may have never had a single teamate as good as the 4th best Celtic. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 4 hours ago, PapaShogun said: Playing that tall would make it easier for defenders to tackle you though. Okoye was more dangerous because he was 6'1". You couldn't take shots at his knees or lower section as easy as you could someone like Jacobs. Players were forced to take him down at pad level. Same with Bettis. I agree. I didnt say being tall was better, but it does make you a more massive human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.