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Who's the strongest power RB of all time?

y*so*blu

By y*so*blu
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Iamcanadian

Iamcanadian

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On 10/6/2017 at 9:19 AM, skywlker32 said:

Since the rest of your post is just rambling on about more hearsay, I will just address the bolded.

Just because Brown wasn't caught from behind at that time (not entirely convinced that was true anyways, but that's another issue) doesn't mean that he ran a 4.3 40. Yes, there were fast athletes at the time, but they were fewer, so running a mid 4.4 to low 4.5 would likely be enough to pull away from the rest of the guys on the field.

Your only proof of your claim is that you heard from other people that Brown ran a 4.3 and you trust that, but people also claim that Bo ran as fast as a 4.12 (not even close to true I'm sure). You go on to talk about Rice and that there were rumors that he ran 4.6 or so (actually the claim is usually 4.71, also Bill Walsh claims Rice ran a 4.59 and Brandt did not claim 4.3 from what I'm seeing, but a 4.55), but you don't trust that. Basically, don't believe everything you hear.

People can claim any time they like to fit their narrative, but 4.3 times are elite speedsters (likely could have been track stars) and are not nearly as common as people seem to think.

Even back then, the standard for making the NFL for a RB, WR and CB was 4.50, that is a fact not supposition. If you wanted to be a 1st round pick, that was the standard you had to attain.

I am not claiming that Jackson ran a 4.12 or that Campbell ran a 4.30. Why is it so hard to accept that Jimmy Brown ran that fast. The Browns ran the ball around 80 to 85% of the time and about 75% of those were sweeps where they pulled both guards and Brown ran behind them. Even today, a RB has to have real speed to be effective running the ball wide rather than going up the middle, yet that is exactly how Brown was used and worse yet, everybody on the defense knew he was going to carry the ball on almost every play, yet they could not stop him with any kind of consistency, because he was a very special athlete, with both speed and strength that other players of his day simply could not match.

Brown was the fastest player of his era and that is why he dominated his position in the NFL

So, because, there was no combine that recorded his speed like today, that is enough for you to write him off as an elite speedster. Basically, you chose to believe what you want and that is the end of it for you.

As for Jerry Rice, long ago I saved an excerpt from Gil Brandt where he wrote he hand timed Rice in the 4.3 range at the combine, unfortunately, when I got a new computer, I lost that quote, but it did exist. You can choose to believe it or not, I don't really care, but please explain to me, if the standard for a 1st round WR pick was a minimum of 4.50, how did Rice get picked in the first round running a 4.59 or a 4.55 from a school that basically had never ever produced much, if any, in the way of pro football players, especially in an era that still favoured RB's over WR's. It is not like Rice was a big player who could dominate by his size, he had to win through speed and that is exactly how he was used in the NFL. He also, was never, ever caught from behind and there were quite a few CB's who could run in the 4.3 range. A tenth of a second in the 40 equates to about 3 feet on a deep pattern, how was Rice able to get separation if he only ran a 4.59 or a 4.55 as consistently as he did???

Look, I have been a draftnik for 65 years and I do my homework, I just do not throw out there, suppositions that have no merit, I am not a homer who makes up facts based on rumors. I am very careful to stick to the facts, reasonable pro announcers who did commentary on games and played in Brown's era, claimed he ran that fast and since, you have absolutely nothing to prove he didn't, I'll keep believing he did.

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Jlowe22

Jlowe22

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40 times are fickle, especially ones timed back in the day.  I'm sure pro scouts are as good as one can be at hand-timing, but you can never fully escape human error. If a player in the 60s was clearly faster than everyone else, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he ran a 4.3.  But there's no way to know for sure.  There's a lot of error and a lot of lying involved, and I'm fairly certain guys like Bo Jackson didn't run 4.1.

Jim Brown dominated his era like no one ever, and it wouldn't be a stretch at all to say he ran a 4.3.  A 4.3 at his size would have dominated that era, and that's exactly what he did.

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Iamcanadian

Iamcanadian

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6 hours ago, ReadyToThump said:

Jim Brown wasn't a "power" back. 

 

The answer here for me is Earl Campbell. 

It's true, they didn't use him like a power back, but it often took 4 or 5 guys to bring him down and I saw many a time when he broke free from all those tacklers who knew 75% of the time, he was going to carry the ball before the snap. After all, he only weighed 10 to 15 lbs. less than the DT's of his day and completely outweighed all the LBers, so he had plenty of power.

For pure power RB's, Riggins, Campbell, Bettis, Csonka and Taylor of the old Packers were probably the best up the gut power runners of their eras.

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TecmoSuperJoe

TecmoSuperJoe

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On 10/8/2017 at 7:13 AM, Iamcanadian said:

As for Jerry Rice, long ago I saved an excerpt from Gil Brandt where he wrote he hand timed Rice in the 4.3 range at the combine, unfortunately, when I got a new computer, I lost that quote, but it did exist. You can choose to believe it or not, I don't really care, but please explain to me, if the standard for a 1st round WR pick was a minimum of 4.50, how did Rice get picked in the first round running a 4.59 or a 4.55 from a school that basically had never ever produced much, if any, in the way of pro football players, especially in an era that still favoured RB's over WR's. It is not like Rice was a big player who could dominate by his size, he had to win through speed and that is exactly how he was used in the NFL. He also, was never, ever caught from behind and there were quite a few CB's who could run in the 4.3 range. A tenth of a second in the 40 equates to about 3 feet on a deep pattern, how was Rice able to get separation if he only ran a 4.59 or a 4.55 as consistently as he did???

Meh. Love Rice, but he was caught from behind every so often. Darrell Green does it in this video at the 40 second mark.

Granted, both players were in the twilight of their careers with Green being older. But yeah, Rice was caught from behind unless he clearly had a few steps on someone at the ball was thrown in front of him like most receivers. His speed was underrated though I'll say that. Still wasn't a burner from the jump, but I think he just relied on his route running to get that seperation down the field more so than just speed. Which is why guys like him or Issac Bruce played well into their later years. That route running. 

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swede700

swede700

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On 9/25/2017 at 9:04 PM, y*so*blu said:

One of my favorite things about football is watching great running backs go to work. While quick "finesse" backs like Warrick Dunn are always fun to watch, to me there's nothing like seeing a sturdy north-south runner just explode out of the backfield and smash right through defenders. Who, in your opinion, are some of the strongest power RBs to ever play the game?

Not a contest...Earl Campbell.

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Iamcanadian

Iamcanadian

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On 10/8/2017 at 6:05 PM, ILoveTheVikings said:

Seems like Jim Brown is getting the old Wilt Chamberlain tall tale myth thing going on

2 different stories. Brown was clearly dominate for his entire era and retired at the top of his game. Chamberlain was a whole different story. Early in his pro career, Bill Russell was the dominate Center of his day with 9 championship rings. Chamberlain was a fabulous scorer using a fade away jumper, 3 foot from the basket, he averaged 50 points a game and once scored 100 points in a game, but he could not beat the Celtics for championships.

Finally, Chamberlain had had enough and completely changed the way he played pro basketball. He did away with his fade away jumper which had accounted for almost all his scoring and designed his game after Russell's who wasn't much of a scorer, but dominated the game defensively  and through his rebounding. Chamberlain's fade away jumper had always taken him out of being in position to rebound. From that point on, Chamberlain would only score on a dunk and totally committed to playing defense and rebounding and Philly became a much more dangerous contender. His scoring dropped from 50 points per game to around 18 to 19 points, but his team was far more dangerous as a championship threat.

Chamberlain's personnel life was as a scum bag, as he claimed he slept with over 1000 women, but as a player, it was pretty impressive how he completely remodeled his game to become a greater player. Not many players would give up the limelight of being the league's top scorer just so his team could be more competitive, but that is exactly what he did.

How good was Chamberlain as an athlete, well he led the big 12 in high jump at their track and field championships, which is quite impressive for a man his height and weight, but then again, there are those who think the athletes back then were mediocre compared to athletes today. No way there could be the odd great athlete back then

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