Cearbhall Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 12 hours ago, vike daddy said: has anyone said that lately? seems to me pretty much everyone is content with Keenum. I tried to make it clear right up front who I was talking to so that everyone else could save their time and not read it. If nobody was in the group I was talking to, I am fine with nobody reading it. That was the whole point of the first line. I have nothing to debate with the people that agree that Case should be the starting QB going forward this season. I may have missed that there was a consensus there. I was still seeing arguments against Case in a thread that exists to determine whether a case could be made for the guy. If everyone agrees that Case should be starting, thanks for pointing out the level of consensus. I had missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 11 hours ago, SemperFeist said: For someone that likes to speak for others you really have a poor grasp on reading comprehension. Where has anyone, post bye week, said that Keenum should be benched? Where has anyone said that they don’t want Keenum starting? Why do you seem to believe that poor plays can’t be critiqued? Do you believe that when these players are in the film room that they aren’t critiquing themselves, or that coaches aren’t pointing out their mistakes? Every quarterback throws interceptions, does that mean any of Matt Ryan’s or Drew Brees’ interceptions don’t deserve criticism? If a quarterback is consistently throwing interceptions, is it unfair to critique his ability to take care of the football? After all, every quarterback throws interceptions. Every quarterback has overthrown a wide receiver, yet that has never, and still doesn’t, stop people from criticizing Bridgewater’s deep passing. And nor should it. Bridgewater over three receivers on a consistent basis, therefor exposing a weakness in his game that was deserving of criticism. Like Bridgewater’s consistent inaccurate throws on deep balls, Keenum has consistently failed to recognize coverages that have left receivers wide open down field, or broken coverages that have done the same. It’s something that is happening on a week to week basis, exposing a weakness in his game. Certainly making it worth critiquing. Yes, Matt Ryan missed two opportunities for touchdowns if he had simply seen the entire field, and had not gotten tunnel vision locked on to Julio Jones. And in that close of a game, behind at one point, missing those throws absolutely is deserving of criticism. However, Matt Ryan has also built up a considerable amount of equity throughout his career, to where we know that those misses are not indicative of a pattern. Keenum, Like Bridgewater with his deep passing, do not have that equity built up. We are all enjoying the ride, it’s flat out ignorant on your part to assume otherwise. But, hey, if you feel the need to thump your chest and show people that you were right, go for it. There are plenty of others around here who are capable of carrying on conversations and sharing opinions with a maturity level that most have come to expect from this site. I do not like to speak for others. You are right though, I may have a poor grasp on reading comprehension. I have been giving a case for Case continuing to start. I felt like replies were being argumentative with that point. Vike Daddy pointed out, in a reasonably nice fashion, that I was writing to nobody. I read back the last few pages and I have no reason to believe he was incorrect. The argumentativeness that I was feeling appears to be directed at something else -- it is related to who the starting QB should be next year. That is not something that I am ready to debate at this time. I want to see how this year plays out. So basically, yes, my reading comprehension failed me by being overpowered by my perception that the argumentative posts were directed towards wanting someone other than Case starting this season. I may have been focusing too much on a statement of yours about concern with Case making mistakes in the postseason and wrongly interpreting that as you wanted someone else to be starting instead. To answer some of your other questions, I don't know if there was anyone post bye week that said Keenum should be benched. I didn't read back that far. I didn't see that suggestion in the couple pages leading up to this. I felt like the argumentativeness was directed towards that but I see now that it probably was not. I don't believe that poor plays can't be critiqued. I do believe that pulling out one or two outlier plays is a terrible way to judge a QB. Worrying about a rare miss of an open WR is borderline ridiculous IMO. No QB is going to make all the best reads on all the plays. It is more useful IMO to look at the plays a guy is making than the plays he is not making. Look at how many plays a QB is making. Case has been making a lot more plays than any QB the Vikings have had since 2009. As far as what I believe happens in the film room, I first want to point out that I have no idea what happens in the film room. I will say that I believe that Case Keenum is probably Case Keenum's harshest critic in the film room. I have seen his reaction to missing a play when he misses it. I fully believe that he is critiquing himself. I am not sure that I understand the point of your paragraph (remember, poor reading comprehension) about QBs throwing interceptions and how that could be critiqued. To answer the questions though, no I do not believe it is fair to judge a QB based on isolated interceptions. It is fair to judge a QB that has a trend of carelessness with the ball that is out of line with what should be expected of a QB. I believe that you are flat out wrong saying that Case Keenum "consistently failed to recognize coverages that have left receivers wide open down field, or broken coverages that have done the same". This happens sometimes with Case just like any other QB. I doubt that it happens more often with case than most other QBs. The one thing that I know is that Case Keenum consistently does recognize coverages that have left receivers wide open and broken coverages. Case Keenum has consistently made these plays. The fact that he has missed a few isn't surprised or out of line with expectations. I am glad to read that you are enjoying the ride. I take exception to you saying it is ignorant of me to assume that you are not. I never assumed you were not. As far as the rest of this paragraph, I don't really know what you are talking about. Quote "We are all enjoying the ride, it’s flat out ignorant on your part to assume otherwise. But, hey, if you feel the need to thump your chest and show people that you were right, go for it. There are plenty of others around here who are capable of carrying on conversations and sharing opinions with a maturity level that most have come to expect from this site. " I do not feel the need to thump my chest and show people that I am right. I re-read my post and I believe your attack on my maturity level is uncalled for. That is not to say that you are not right (remember, poor reading comprehension) but I would appreciate it if you see a problem with my maturity level if you would kindly send me a direct message about it to discuss the topic. I would like to have a private conversation on the topic so you can help me understand. To the extend my writing is immature, I apologize. I would like to improve in that area. Would just rather have that conversation in private rather than being called out in the forum like you did. 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Purplexing Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 9 hours ago, SemperFeist said: It’s very obvious, but I understand that you’re intentionally being obtuse to try and get a reaction. Nope. You don't understand. Keep guessing, or PM a friend for help. Hint: Zimmer's pressers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 hours ago, Purplexing said: Nope. You don't understand. Keep guessing, or PM a friend for help. Hint: Zimmer's pressers. You think Zimmer would have benched him for sloter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said: You think Zimmer would have benched him for sloter? No he doesn't. Nor does anyone else. It's an attention thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 If today they signed Keenum to a 3 year extention $12M/yr would we be happy? We don't know what his demise could possibly be or how he will do in the playoffs, but possibly getting him on a discounted deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said: If today they signed Keenum to a 3 year extention $12M/yr would we be happy? We don't know what his demise could possibly be or how he will do in the playoffs, but possibly getting him on a discounted deal. If it were structured in a way that it could be gotten out of after one year, and the guaranteed money wasn’t over that amount, essentially a year to year deal, I’d be fine with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakish Mind Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said: If today they signed Keenum to a 3 year extention $12M/yr would we be happy? We don't know what his demise could possibly be or how he will do in the playoffs, but possibly getting him on a discounted deal. If that was signed today, then that would tell me that Keenum doesn't believe in himself. That would be bad!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 9 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said: If today they signed Keenum to a 3 year extention $12M/yr would we be happy? We don't know what his demise could possibly be or how he will do in the playoffs, but possibly getting him on a discounted deal. I would be. But I can't see Keenum taking that, a strong playoff run might get him closer to $15M per year and more guaranteed money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: If it were structured in a way that it could be gotten out of after one year, and the guaranteed money wasn’t over that amount, essentially a year to year deal, I’d be fine with it. i would think he could command more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, Freakish Mind said: If that was signed today, then that would tell me that Keenum doesn't believe in himself. That would be bad!!!! I don't think so, he is an injury away from never making $7M. If we lose a key player like Thielen, Rudolph, or Murray this offense could collapse. I wouldn't say it wouldn't be not believing himself, it's just a pay day that you would review the risk. I'd say the risk would be more towards the Vikings right now... with our QB injury luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 3 hours ago, Purplexing said: Nope. You don't understand. Keep guessing, or PM a friend for help. Hint: Zimmer's pressers. *whispers* this is how you carry out a non-constructive discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakish Mind Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 hours ago, gopherwrestler said: I don't think so, he is an injury away from never making $7M. If we lose a key player like Thielen, Rudolph, or Murray this offense could collapse. I wouldn't say it wouldn't be not believing himself, it's just a pay day that you would review the risk. I'd say the risk would be more towards the Vikings right now... with our QB injury luck. Losing Thielen would hurt, Rudolph would hurt a little. Murray nah, plug n play there. But I don't see our offense collapsing by losing any one of these players. We lost Diggs for a couple games and did not collapse. No player in his right mind would sign for 5-8 millions dollars less per season because they were scared they were going to get hurt. Keenum is 7 games away from paydirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worm Guts Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 hours ago, gopherwrestler said: If today they signed Keenum to a 3 year extention $12M/yr would we be happy? We don't know what his demise could possibly be or how he will do in the playoffs, but possibly getting him on a discounted deal. I’d probably prefer to wait until the end of the season. It’s more important to make the right decision than to save a few bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 Where does Case Keenum rank among NFL MVP candidates? That Keenum's even on the fringe of this conversation is pretty remarkable for a player who entered the season as a backup on a one-year, $2 million deal (and still hasn't actually been named the starter for the season). But it's hard to ignore him, with the Vikings on an eight-game winning streak and Keenum's numbers over the past four -- since Teddy Bridgewater's activation -- nearly identical to Tom Brady's. "You look at a guy that's deserving of that (MVP talk) -- he's been huge for us," Vikings tight end Kyle Rudolph said this week. "From an outsider's perspective, you look at this team and -- deservedly so -- we're overshadowed by a great defense. But people don't realize our offense is top five in most categories. We're OK with that. We have a great defense. But when we play together, that's how you get to 10-2." The longer Keenum stays hot, the more money he makes himself in the offseason. He'll soon be cashing in on the modest incentives in his deal -- $150,000 for playing 75 percent of the snaps, and another $100,000 for 85 percent. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000889778/article/potential-head-coachgm-pairings-five-big-questions-for-week-14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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