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Potential Midseason Trades

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2 hours ago, NYJets4716 said:

Stats say that Darnold isn't good, eye test says he's more than what his stats are showing 

 

Stats are nice but with football I go off of what I see more. There's usually more to it.

I agree that stats can be misleading depending on the situation  But, IMO Sam’s stats and his overall play have been  below average. Productivity in the NFL isn’t a straight line where every game the player has the same stats... Sam has had 10 games with a passer rating 90 or above, 11 games under 80 and the other 5 in the 80s. Add in the fumbles and he is below average. Now those games where  he excelled leave hope that he, still only 23, will find consistency and be a top QB. But until he does he is what his stats show,
Same holds true with Perriman. Also, his appeal is based off the stats in his last 5 games when he had over 25% of his 4 career receptions and almost 33% of his career yardage. Some might see it as him finally breaking out while others might say the productivity was mostly in garbage time for a losing team with gunslinger that threw for over 5000 yards. Only  time will tell

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13 minutes ago, Rich51 said:

I agree that stats can be misleading depending on the situation  But, IMO Sam’s stats and his overall play have been  below average. Productivity in the NFL isn’t a straight line where every game the player has the same stats... Sam has had 10 games with a passer rating 90 or above, 11 games under 80 and the other 5 in the 80s. Add in the fumbles and he is below average. Now those games where  he excelled leave hope that he, still only 23, will find consistency and be a top QB. But until he does he is what his stats show,
Same holds true with Perriman. Also, his appeal is based off the stats in his last 5 games when he had over 25% of his 4 career receptions and almost 33% of his career yardage. Some might see it as him finally breaking out while others might say the productivity was mostly in garbage time for a losing team with gunslinger that threw for over 5000 yards. Only  time will tell

What are Sam’s stats when the line gives him time to let a route develop?  What are the stats when Sam has a WR that can actually get open?  

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24 minutes ago, Rich51 said:

I agree that stats can be misleading depending on the situation  But, IMO Sam’s stats and his overall play have been  below average. Productivity in the NFL isn’t a straight line where every game the player has the same stats... Sam has had 10 games with a passer rating 90 or above, 11 games under 80 and the other 5 in the 80s. Add in the fumbles and he is below average. Now those games where  he excelled leave hope that he, still only 23, will find consistency and be a top QB. But until he does he is what his stats show,
Same holds true with Perriman. Also, his appeal is based off the stats in his last 5 games when he had over 25% of his 4 career receptions and almost 33% of his career yardage. Some might see it as him finally breaking out while others might say the productivity was mostly in garbage time for a losing team with gunslinger that threw for over 5000 yards. Only  time will tell

Disagree, Sam is better than his stats say. 

Hes been in the worst situation in football and stats do not tell you that. 

He did good for the issues surrounding him, without Sam we were the worst team in football last season.  He carried them.

Qbs i use the eye test, too many system qbs that have great stats on paper but look bad on eye test. Trubisky is one.

Then you have guys who are truly great have great stats and pass eye test like Mahomes. 

Most qbs would struggle with what the jets had last season. Darnold is good with the potential to be great.he does things that not many can and he can carry offenses.  Once he hits his prime he's gonna be fun to watch.

As the jets improve talent around him,  which I'm confident in Douglas to do so. He'll improve stat wise. 

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3 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Stats are exactly that stats. Doesn’t tell the whole story. As I’ve stated... there’s an eye test. And you can just look at Perriman and can tell he offers more than being a deep threat. There’s not a reason he can’t do things that use more of a physical play. I’m not saying your stats are wrong. I’m saying they are exactly that just stats. For example based on stats nearly every RB drafted didn’t catch the ball much in college. Doesn’t mean they can’t do it. Hell James White has made a whole career of it and played for a school that rarely throws to their RBs. My point is that just bc of often injured career, down on the depth chart, etc. Doesn’t mean he can’t do more than these stats say.

Except for two things: 1) I'm not formulating my opinion based on stats. I've watched film and the stats happen to correlate with my analysis - Just because you disagree, you keep acting like I'm throwing out arbitrary statistics and haven't actually watched him play.That's not the case. 2) The point you're trying to make is a whole separate discussion. I've said that I think he can develop further. The question was, is he a more complete player right now? The film doesn't show he is IMO. You're using injuries and lack of opportunity to argue why he'll be a better player - That's great, but it's not what I was debating. 

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1 hour ago, xrade said:

What are Sam’s stats when the line gives him time to let a route develop?  What are the stats when Sam has a WR that can actually get open?  

In games where Sam has a league average amount of time before pressures he has a QB rating of 108.  If that doesn't tell you that he has potential and that we've thus far squandered him i don't know what does.   

Not elite protection.... not even good protection.... middle of the pack.

Surroundings matter an insane amount.   Everyone in the world made excuses for Brady last year,  saying that he had nothing to work with.   His qb rating was almost the same as Sam's, and he easily had a better line a better run game, better play calling, and at least comparable receiving options..... oh and 20 years of learning under his belt.   Yet he gets the excuses and the 22 year old with even worse surroundings gets dogged for similar levels of performance. 

Put Mahomes and the Jets and he's mailing back that MVP.  Heck we're probably having a similar discussion right now.  I think he'd be a bit better here than Sam,  but not much. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, rampantjet said:

In games where Sam has a league average amount of time before pressures he has a QB rating of 108.  If that doesn't tell you that he has potential and that we've thus far squandered him i don't know what does.   

Not elite protection.... not even good protection.... middle of the pack.

Surroundings matter an insane amount.   Everyone in the world made excuses for Brady last year,  saying that he had nothing to work with.   His qb rating was almost the same as Sam's, and he easily had a better line a better run game, better play calling, and at least comparable receiving options..... oh and 20 years of learning under his belt.   Yet he gets the excuses and the 22 year old with even worse surroundings gets dogged for similar levels of performance. 

Put Mahomes and the Jets and he's mailing back that MVP.  Heck we're probably having a similar discussion right now.  I think he'd be a bit better here than Sam,  but not much. 

I don't know that,  cause mahomes had issues out of college that he got to fix with elite coaching and sitting a year.

Darnold thrown to start right away on a bad team, 2 new systems. 

If Darnold had Andy Reid and the chiefs talent watch out.

Mahomes imo is the best, but he also had a great situation to help him succeed. 

Edited by NYJets4716

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Robby is better than Perriman. 

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8 hours ago, Dr.O said:

Robby is better than Perriman. 

But are you using stats or the eye test?

This is extremely important to validate your stance.

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8 hours ago, Dr.O said:

Robby is better than Perriman. 

I guess this is my whole point. And maybe I’m not getting it’s across. Yes Robby is better than Perriman. Won’t argue that. But that’s bc he’s produced. And quite frankly that’s what matters. But from a talent perspective, Perriman is more talented. So there’s optimism there. It’s just not as black and white to me that Robby > Perriman. For me there’s that grey area that has Perriman as more talented and can be better if healthy.

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13 hours ago, rampantjet said:

In games where Sam has a league average amount of time before pressures he has a QB rating of 108.  If that doesn't tell you that he has potential and that we've thus far squandered him i don't know what does.   

Not elite protection.... not even good protection.... middle of the pack.

Surroundings matter an insane amount.   Everyone in the world made excuses for Brady last year,  saying that he had nothing to work with.   His qb rating was almost the same as Sam's, and he easily had a better line a better run game, better play calling, and at least comparable receiving options..... oh and 20 years of learning under his belt.   Yet he gets the excuses and the 22 year old with even worse surroundings gets dogged for similar levels of performance. 

Put Mahomes and the Jets and he's mailing back that MVP.  Heck we're probably having a similar discussion right now.  I think he'd be a bit better here than Sam,  but not much. 

Thus was my point.  I have not had this much excitement about a Jet QB since, well, never.

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30 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

But are you using stats or the eye test?

This is extremely important to validate your stance.

Both. Perriman has a 6-8 game run last year where he’s looked like a solid WR. Robby has done that for years for us, his stats would look much better if he had consistent QB play. Robby gets slandered to a degree because he wasn’t a contested catch type of WR which was fine, that’s not his game. He had elite speed and deep ball tracking and was a solid intermediate and deep route runner which gets lost, I have no doubt he gets close to if not over 1000yards this year with Carolina. Perriman on the other hand while I think he’ll be a nice option for us isn’t replacing Robby, Perriman struggles tracking deep balls and his speed shows up much more on the short to intermediate game than his deep game. 

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I think they are both pretty close,  so I don't see the point. You guys are splitting hairs. The only WR on the market I would go after is OBJ that is worth it. I also feel we will sign a back up QB really soon. I think the guy to keep an eye on is Bortels, Barkley, McCown. I think Barkley gets cut with Fromm in town. 

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51 minutes ago, jetfuel34 said:

I think they are both pretty close,  so I don't see the point. You guys are splitting hairs. The only WR on the market I would go after is OBJ that is worth it. I also feel we will sign a back up QB really soon. I think the guy to keep an eye on is Bortels, Barkley, McCown. I think Barkley gets cut with Fromm in town. 

I think any move worth noting that will be coming soon is extending Adams 

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On 5/6/2020 at 9:02 AM, JetsandI said:

7th conditional pick was canceled since it wasn't met.

Just going by what's on BNDR.

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On 5/10/2020 at 6:17 PM, Rich51 said:

I agree that stats can be misleading depending on the situation  But, IMO Sam’s stats and his overall play have been  below average. Productivity in the NFL isn’t a straight line where every game the player has the same stats... Sam has had 10 games with a passer rating 90 or above, 11 games under 80 and the other 5 in the 80s. Add in the fumbles and he is below average. Now those games where  he excelled leave hope that he, still only 23, will find consistency and be a top QB. But until he does he is what his stats show,
Same holds true with Perriman. Also, his appeal is based off the stats in his last 5 games when he had over 25% of his 4 career receptions and almost 33% of his career yardage. Some might see it as him finally breaking out while others might say the productivity was mostly in garbage time for a losing team with gunslinger that threw for over 5000 yards. Only  time will tell

Given that he had the suckiest line in all of football, a below average WR corps, lost his TE in year 2, his OC in year 2. I think he has done reasonably well. Remember also Bell had no OL either. This year the OL is lightyears better, and opposing teams will not be able to flood the box or the backfield. MB is going to open up some running lanes and protect Darnold's right side. Lets see what this year brings and then you will have a better grasp on what this team can do going forward.

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