Deadpulse Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said: i'll believe it when i see it here I mean, it's happened in NE when Brady was out. So you've seen it, not sure why the believing is a decade behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucsDraftGeek47 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Just now, Deadpulse said: I mean, it's happened in NE when Brady was out. So you've seen it, not sure why the believing is a decade behind. bro lol 1- BECAUSE ITS A DECADE BEHIND 2- a decade ago when that happened, that Pats team was STACKED any QB could have had a good season with Moss and a Prime Welker 3- that NE team was not even close to a Running QB , ground and pound team like i said, if McDaniels can pull a Greg Roman to completely get the most out of Cam, as Roman did with Lamar, then this will work if not, this is 8-8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 20 hours ago, DoleINGout said: 20 hours ago, ET80 said: I don't think that anyone is arguing that. He's not elite, probably not even top 10 at any point - save for 2015. On 6/28/2020 at 7:11 PM, ET80 said: I like the move for NE. If healthy, Cam is a top 10-15 QB and Belly will scheme around his skillset. ...But I mean Cam is a top 15 QB when healthy and likely will be in 2020. This is still bothering me, mostly because we're usually on a similar page - I figured you were joking or poking me for a response, so I re-read what I said and think I know how to clarify it. (I was a bit snarky early on, and that was based on me thinking you were joking - but if there's legit confusion, I'm here to talk it out). Being "elite" and being "top 15" aren't the same thing, not in the least. Right now, there are maybe five elite QBs in the NFL - Mahomes, Jackson, Wilson, Watson and Rodgers. I'd argue that the next tier are guys who could vault into this discussion with a great season (Prescott, Wentz, Goff) OR guys who have been on top for a long time and are slowly falling out of the discussion (Brady, Roethlensberger, Brees). That 11-15 guys (where Cam is) could jump into that 6-10 range with an MVP like season. They've been in the 1-10 range and might be holding ground between the three categories, depending on their year (Ryan, Stafford, Cousins). Cam (and Ryan Tannehill) fall into this spot. 16-20? This is usually reserved for guys we don't know much about but we like what we see so far (Kyler Murray, Josh Allen, MAYBE Baker Mayfield) or guys we know are on the cusp of falling out completely (Garropolo, Rivers). Lot of variability here, but my rule of thumb is to put the younger guys on top. Anything below 20 and you're talking about guys who are keeping the seat warm for an eventual starter, or one bad game away from losing their job entirely (Carr, Fitzpatrick, Taylor, Stidham, Trubisky, Darnold, Bridgewater). You also have a smattering of guys who are incompletes (Jones, Haskins, Lock, Minshew) as well as rookies - you really don't know what you got in 'em. So, I say all that to say that Cam is not elite, and not in that next tier either. That third tier - better than most, but still not at the top of the mountain - is probably where Cam sits, and he's probably up for a slide past the 16-20 mark if things don't go well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 36 minutes ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said: WHO IS HE GOING TO THROW TO??? Cam has never been a QB that would elevate his WRs The guy went 15-1 with Ted Ginn and Philly Brown as his primary targets. Greg Olson was a castaway and failed draft pick for Chicago before he landed with Carolina. Who elevated who in that relationship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 25 minutes ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said: like i said, if McDaniels can pull a Greg Roman to completely get the most out of Cam, as Roman did with Lamar, then this will work You mean like he did with TIm Tebow in Denver? That guy currently hitting .165 for the Mets' Triple-A club? I honestly dont understand how you can think its more likely that they try to shove Cam Newton into the Tom Brady offense. There isnt a shred of evidence to suggest McD isn't capable of forming an offense around his QB. Hell he even did it with Jay Cutler and he hated Jay Cutler. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 30 minutes ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said: bro lol 1- BECAUSE ITS A DECADE BEHIND 2- a decade ago when that happened, that Pats team was STACKED any QB could have had a good season with Moss and a Prime Welker There's also 2016 - Brady was suspended for the first four games of the season, and the Pats went 2-1 with Jimmy Garropolo and 1-0 with Jacoby Brissett. Brissett's W against the Texans 5th ranked defense is probably the best indicator as to how McDaniels can still tailor an offense to a QB with a limited skillset. Brissett is below average (as his tenure with Indianapolis showed us) but McDaniels got a lot out of him with a short week to prep; It was a scaled down playbook, more run concepts than anything, and relied on pass catching RBs (James White in particular) to get the job done. So it's absolutely doable with a QB who is leagues better than Brissett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 17 minutes ago, ET80 said: This is still bothering me, mostly because we're usually on a similar page I am with you brother. I'm sorry if it came across like I was attacking you or being hostile towards you or just aggressive in general. I love our chemistry here! But I just was very mildly confused is all. I am on the road so will read this post sooooon. Thanks bae. lolol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 18 minutes ago, ET80 said: The guy went 15-1 with Ted Ginn and Philly Brown as his primary targets. Greg Olson was a castaway and failed draft pick for Chicago before he landed with Carolina. Who elevated who in that relationship? Yup. Cam never really relied on having a top tier receiver. They got rid of Steve Smith early on in Newtons career. Then after that his best WR was probably 250 pound Kelvin Benjamin? Despite that, he still was effective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 26 minutes ago, ET80 said: So, I say all that to say that Cam is not elite, and not in that next tier either. That third tier - better than most, but still not at the top of the mountain - is probably where Cam sits, and he's probably up for a slide past the 16-20 mark if things don't go well. I think Cam will play like his MVP self more than his hobbled self. I expect Cam to be a borderline elite QB with the Patriots. I think he has been elite in the past. I generally can be a little aloof and silly at times when I post, which understandably complicates things when I am perhaps actually confused by a point someone makes. As far as the QB debate, I think there are many QB's in 2020 who will have elite seasons on the whole. I'm projecting this order from best to worst in terms of production this year at the top: Patrick Mahomes Russell Wilson Matt Ryan Tom Brady Lamar Jackson Deshaun Watson Aaron Rodgers Kyler Murray Matthew Stafford Dak Prescott Drew Brees Carson Wentz Cam Newton Ben Roethlisberger Purely from a TD:INT ratio and wins perspective that is. Again though, I just felt like the sizzle of your initial post with optimism towards Cam and the Pats match-made-in-Heaven fell flat in the subsequent posts where you were agreeing with another poster essentially that Cam is "overrated". I think I read into the initial post slightly more from the perspective of my own as someone who was really excited at the time. But to go from a declaration of good fortunes abounding once more potentially for the Patriots because of Cam, to sort of putting a damper on his hype is where I felt like it was confusing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucsDraftGeek47 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 43 minutes ago, ET80 said: The guy went 15-1 with Ted Ginn and Philly Brown as his primary targets. Greg Olson was a castaway and failed draft pick for Chicago before he landed with Carolina. Who elevated who in that relationship? true, bout Ginn and Brown with Olsen though, running QBs tend to love their TEs, look at Lamar 31 minutes ago, ET80 said: There's also 2016 - Brady was suspended for the first four games of the season, and the Pats went 2-1 with Jimmy Garropolo and 1-0 with Jacoby Brissett. Brissett's W against the Texans 5th ranked defense is probably the best indicator as to how McDaniels can still tailor an offense to a QB with a limited skillset. Brissett is below average (as his tenure with Indianapolis showed us) but McDaniels got a lot out of him with a short week to prep; It was a scaled down playbook, more run concepts than anything, and relied on pass catching RBs (James White in particular) to get the job done. So it's absolutely doable with a QB who is leagues better than Brissett. i dont think you can count the Jimmy G, Brisset 4 game sample Look im not saying this cant work lol, im just saying they have alot of work to do with scheme changes yet ppl want to anoint them to already being top of that division just looking at it objectively, the Pats dont have much talent on O and lost alot on D so unless they prove otherwise they arent that good on paper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: But to go from a declaration of good fortunes abounding once more potentially for the Patriots because of Cam, to sort of putting a damper on his hype is where I felt like it was confusing. My bad, wasn't trying to rain on your parade. Contextually, this move puts New England back on top of the AFCE, and puts them as the 3rd best team in the AFC, ahead of Houston/Tennessee. It's still Mahomes' world and Lamar Jackson is still a regular season monster, but New England is absolutely in the fight right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucsDraftGeek47 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Just now, ET80 said: My bad, wasn't trying to rain on your parade. Contextually, this move puts New England back on top of the AFCE, and puts them as the 3rd best team in the AFC, ahead of Houston/Tennessee. It's still Mahomes' world and Lamar Jackson is still a regular season monster, but New England is absolutely in the fight right now. jesus ^ this is why i argue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said: Look im not saying this cant work lol, im just saying they have alot of work to do with scheme changes This has definitely already been happening. As soon as Brady left the offense had to change. They reportedly have been eyeing Cam for awhile so I am positive work has been done on a playbook that tailors to his strengths. I am with you that the Patriots are not a lock for anything. The Bills are legit right now. However, even before this signing in the thread about who wins the AFCE, people were not counting out the Patriots. Take that as you will, but I think BB's success garners a lot of benefit of the doubt from the masses. That or people are just so used to the Patriots winning it's hard to imagine them not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 1 minute ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said: jesus ^ this is why i argue Feel free to tell me which AFC team proves to be better than last seasons' #4 seed. Houston took a step backwards this off-season, so who takes the #3 spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, ET80 said: My bad, wasn't trying to rain on your parade. No rain here brotha, just about to bust a nut. Cam is my jam. CamJam. WOOOOOO!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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