Final Roster Cuts/Moves Thread

[Thaiphoon]

28 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

They got a 5th round pick back for a All Pro LT. One if not the second most important part on the offense. Protecting the QB's blind side. 

2020 - 5th round

2021 - 3rd round

While not the best compensation we could've gotten if both sides hadn't poisoned the well and his trade value (yes, both Trent and Bruce did it), it's about the best we were gonna get given his age and the fact he hadn't played any football in almost 2 calendar years.

We could've gotten at least a 2nd for him (if he and his agent didn't screw up his value and then Bruce decided to douse it with gasoline and light a match)...but it is where we were earlier this year.

I'm not happy about it, but it's the reality of where the new people running things found themselves. 

Quote

Trent I understand stand you don't want to play here but this is a Business and Professional way to handle this. Get a fair trade and you can play were you Want the 2020 season.

It's like you didn't pay attention to any of what went on. This is exactly what happened. His agent was given the go ahead to seek a trade. No one bit. Know why? See my earlier comment on his trade value being poisoned.

Quote

I'm the Coach and Dan should Respectfully Support him and we have you under contract and a Need at LT to protect Haskins. I can't just accept what was offered for you. 

And that's gonna make him come to camp? I mean, I'm a hard nosed guy and wanted to call his bluff too. But as someone who has turned around organizations, I also understand Rivera cutting loose the ones that are not going to be onboard and will only have a negative influence on the rest of the organization. So in that respect, I completely understand them not playing hardball and forcing him to come in and thus screwing the pooch even more in his last year of his contract. Because as @Woz said, all he needs to do is fake the injury and now he's not playing this year and his salary is guaranteed at Week 1.

Quote

A 5th round pick was BS! No disrespect to you. 

5th and 3rd. And like I said, I'm not thrilled with the compensation, but it is the best we could've hoped for after both sides burned everything down.

Quote

If Trent was gonna "Retire" why did he show up in San Fran in top notch shape for Shanahan? Smh.

You really don't understand this? 

He wasn't going to play for us. Ever.Again. He stated he would rather retire than do so.

He never said he wouldn't play football again. Just didn't want to play for us. And since he had made enough $ in his life, he could sit on that pile of it and take that stance.

[Woz]

1 hour ago, naptownskinsfan said:

They didn’t have any reported visits with tight-ends either.  That shows me that, for whatever reason, they didn’t think much of the draft class.  

In years past, that has not necessarily been indicative of their interest. I would say we don't have enough of a track record to make a judgment with the current front office.

 

That all said, given that only one TE went in the top 50 and if not for a mini-run at the bottom of the 3rd round that would be only TE taken in the first two days, I think the league as a whole was down on the class.

[LoganF89]

Just saw that von Miller May miss the whole season needing an ankle surgery. Could be interesting to see if we may dangle kerrigans name around

i love kerrigan and it would be great to see him with the team his whole career but if you get offered a late 3rd or early 4th that’s a conditional I think you gotta take it

[Skins212689]

1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said:

2020 - 5th round

2021 - 3rd round

While not the best compensation we could've gotten if both sides hadn't poisoned the well and his trade value (yes, both Trent and Bruce did it), it's about the best we were gonna get given his age and the fact he hadn't played any football in almost 2 calendar years.

We could've gotten at least a 2nd for him (if he and his agent didn't screw up his value and then Bruce decided to douse it with gasoline and light a match)...but it is where we were earlier this year.

I'm not happy about it, but it's the reality of where the new people running things found themselves. 

It's like you didn't pay attention to any of what went on. This is exactly what happened. His agent was given the go ahead to seek a trade. No one bit. Know why? See my earlier comment on his trade value being poisoned.

And that's gonna make him come to camp? I mean, I'm a hard nosed guy and wanted to call his bluff too. But as someone who has turned around organizations, I also understand Rivera cutting loose the ones that are not going to be onboard and will only have a negative influence on the rest of the organization. So in that respect, I completely understand them not playing hardball and forcing him to come in and thus screwing the pooch even more in his last year of his contract. Because as @Woz said, all he needs to do is fake the injury and now he's not playing this year and his salary is guaranteed at Week 1.

5th and 3rd. And like I said, I'm not thrilled with the compensation, but it is the best we could've hoped for after both sides burned everything down.

You really don't understand this? 

He wasn't going to play for us. Ever.Again. He stated he would rather retire than do so.

He never said he wouldn't play football again. Just didn't want to play for us. And since he had made enough $ in his life, he could sit on that pile of it and take that stance.

Other and I may never see eye to eye on this, but I would've Loved to be apart of this personally. 

I'm a player's guy as some may have already seen but this situation had no Win for Trent Retiring. He than would've had to sit out how long before being reinstated? Trent would've Had to Retire before I traded for less than a 2nd round pick. I Maybe would've taken a 3rd and 3rd but I just never thought Trent was going to sit out back to back seasons.

We see what Peters did right, went to LT for the Money. Maybe not what he wanted (witch I still fully support) but Player's want there money. Trent is no different. They played themselves and then let the 49ers play them. 

[Thaiphoon]

2 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Other and I may never see eye to eye on this, but I would've Loved to be apart of this personally.  

Here we agree. So would I.

Quote

I'm a player's guy as some may have already seen but this situation had no Win for Trent Retiring. He than would've had to sit out how long before being reinstated?

Again, I don't disagree. But if he reports and suddenly gets "injured", he doesn't play and banks his cash and then is a FA next year. That's a losing proposition for us since we don't have a LT and now he's also eating up cap space.

Quote

Trent would've Had to Retire before I traded for less than a 2nd round pick.

Which is great. I  would've been on that train. But no one was going to offer the 2nd rounder. Because of the screw ups by Bruce and by his agent.

And remember, had he come in before Week 8 or 9, he would've accrued a year and he'd be a FA next year. 

This way we made sure:

1) he wasn't taking up too much cap this year

2) we could plan ahead of the draft to ensure we addressed the LT position

3) we got something for him

50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

Quote

I Maybe would've taken a 3rd and 3rd but I just never thought Trent was going to sit out back to back seasons.

Me either. See my point above. All he had to do (if he didn't report to camp) was show up with something like 6 games left and he accrues the season. I disagree with that interpretation of the rules, but it's what the NFL did for him last year when he did just that. He accrued a season and now only had one left on his contract.

 

Quote

We see what Peters did right, went to LT for the Money. Maybe not what he wanted (witch I still fully support) but Player's want there money. Trent is no different. They played themselves and then let the 49ers play them.

Which is why I said this was just a garden variety contract negotiation that he wrapped up in something else to garner sympathy. Peters is different (and I think you and I were in complete agreement on that). He actually was good with the organization and didn't create the waves Trent did and reported to camp. Worked his tail off and then signaled to them that he could play anywhere. And if they move him to LT, the team is going to reward him for doing that.

Trent could have done the exact same thing. He didn't. He chose to burn the bridge before he crossed it byswearing he would never play another down for Washington. Hard to negotiate a contract when the player is antagonistic like Trent was. The two cases (Trent vs Peters) are completely different IMHO.

[Woz]

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

They got a 5th round pick back for a All Pro LT. One if not the second most important part on the offense. Protecting the QB's blind side. 

They were alleged to have been offered a 1st round pick before last season started when things were bad. Brice's ego wouldn't allow him to admit defeat and sell.

It's the same reason that all Washington got in compensation for Kirk Cousins was a 3rd round compensatory pick: Brice couldn't admit defeat or compromise.

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

Trent I understand stand you don't want to play here but this is a Business and Professional way to handle this.

*puts on Trent hat* So, act like a business professional and not drag my name through the press?

It goes both ways.

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

Get a fair trade and you can play were you Want the 2020 season.

I cannot talk to other teams and other teams cannot talk to me while I was under contract with Washington. That's tampering and the NFL punishes teams pretty hard for that.

So, only Washington (and consequently Brice) could make a trade deal for me. They decided to try and hold me and see if they could force me to play.

That didn't work.

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

I'm the Coach and Dan should Respectfully Support him

Again, why is respect a one-way street?

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

and we have you under contract

Okay, and I have but two options: play or stick to my guns. I'm choosing to stick to my guns.

Your move.

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

and a Need at LT to protect Haskins.

That sounds like a "you" kind of problem.

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

I can't just accept what was offered for you. 

That's also a "you" kind of problem. Because I'm not playing for you.

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

A 5th round pick was BS! No disrespect to you. 

Oh I didn't take any. Any disrespect in the laughable return you got for me lies solely in the front office.

*takes off Trent hat*

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

If Trent was gonna "Retire" why did he show up in San Fran in top notch shape for Shanahan? Smh.

Because he was willing to suit up for one of 31 teams. The only one who he was willing to retire instead of play for was Washington.

The rest of the league figured that out and waited for Washington to come to their senses.

The rest of the league just didn't figure that Washington would wait that long, so that most teams solved their tackle problems before Washington realized the market dried up for Trent.

[Skins212689]

3 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Here we agree. So would I.

Again, I don't disagree. But if he reports and suddenly gets "injured", he doesn't play and banks his cash and then is a FA next year. That's a losing proposition for us since we don't have a LT and now he's also eating up cap space.

Which is great. I  would've been on that train. But no one was going to offer the 2nd rounder. Because of the screw ups by Bruce and by his agent.

And remember, had he come in before Week 8 or 9, he would've accrued a year and he'd be a FA next year. 

This way we made sure:

1) he wasn't taking up too much cap this year

2) we could plan ahead of the draft to ensure we addressed the LT position

3) we got something for him

50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

Me either. See my point above. All he had to do (if he didn't report to camp) was show up with something like 6 games left and he accrues the season. I disagree with that interpretation of the rules, but it's what the NFL did for him last year when he did just that. He accrued a season and now only had one left on his contract.

 

Which is why I said this was just a garden variety contract negotiation that he wrapped up in something else to garner sympathy. Peters is different (and I think you and I were in complete agreement on that). He actually was good with the organization and didn't create the waves Trent did and reported to camp. Worked his tail off and then signaled to them that he could play anywhere. And if they move him to LT, the team is going to reward him for doing that.

Trent could have done the exact same thing. He didn't. He chose to burn the bridge before he crossed it byswearing he would never play another down for Washington. Hard to negotiate a contract when the player is antagonistic like Trent was. The two cases (Trent vs Peters) are completely different IMHO.

At least we can agree we would've enjoyed being part of the situation. Seems like one of those things in The NFL Type Business people sit and laugh about down the road.

I'd be Telling Trent "You know you wasn't gonna retire and miss out on that Money" 

He'd reply something like "Yea but I wasn't gonna play in Washington anymore" 

He did just that. 

[Woz]

1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said:

His agent was given the go ahead to seek a trade. No one bit. Know why? See my earlier comment on his trade value being poisoned.

I forgot about that. However, that was at the end of the scenario when Brice started to realize he done effed up.

[Skins212689]

5 minutes ago, Woz said:

They were alleged to have been offered a 1st round pick before last season started when things were bad. Brice's ego wouldn't allow him to admit defeat and sell.

It's the same reason that all Washington got in compensation for Kirk Cousins was a 3rd round compensatory pick: Brice couldn't admit defeat or compromise.

*puts on Trent hat* So, act like a business professional and not drag my name through the press?

It goes both ways.

I cannot talk to other teams and other teams cannot talk to me while I was under contract with Washington. That's tampering and the NFL punishes teams pretty hard for that.

So, only Washington (and consequently Brice) could make a trade deal for me. They decided to try and hold me and see if they could force me to play.

That didn't work.

Again, why is respect a one-way street?

Okay, and I have but two options: play or stick to my guns. I'm choosing to stick to my guns.

Your move.

That sounds like a "you" kind of problem.

That's also a "you" kind of problem. Because I'm not playing for you.

Oh I didn't take any. Any disrespect in the laughable return you got for me lies solely in the front office.

*takes off Trent hat*

Because he was willing to suit up for one of 31 teams. The only one who he was willing to retire instead of play for was Washington.

The rest of the league figured that out and waited for Washington to come to their senses.

The rest of the league just didn't figure that Washington would wait that long, so that most teams solved their tackle problems before Washington realized the market dried up for Trent.

The "You Problem" got me. This balled down to bad management of Bruce and Dan allowing it to continue. Trent should've been gone before Rivera got here truly. Rivera I understand did what he thought was the best thing. I just can't say I would've done the same. 

[Woz]

4 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

The "You Problem" got me. This balled down to bad management of Bruce and Dan allowing it to continue. Trent should've been gone before Rivera got here truly. Rivera I understand did what he thought was the best thing. I just can't say I would've done the same. 

I think a lot of fans would have done very different things, but there really was no other way out by the time Rivera arrived. The bridges had been burned and there was no going back. So, Rivera got what he could.

[Skins212689]

2 minutes ago, Woz said:

I think a lot of fans would have done very different things, but there really was no other way out by the time Rivera arrived. The bridges had been burned and there was no going back. So, Rivera got what he could.

Not just fans actual Owners and GM's. 

[turtle28]

4 hours ago, Woz said:

1. They can wait for his contract expire and hope they get a compensatory pick for him.
2. They can trade him at the deadline if there's a decent deal to be had.
3. Injury insurance at the security blanket position for your young QB isn't a bad thing to carry if you can afford it.

Very true. They’d probably get a 3rd or 4th round comp for him too.

[lavar703]

On 9/8/2020 at 1:38 PM, Woz said:

On Scherff: because he's a Pro Bowl talent in the prime of his career. He can contribute this year.

On Davis: because he was better than what we had at linebacker and knows Rivera and his system. He can contribute this year.

On Kerrigan: to give the one guy who has stuck with this franchise during its worst decade in history the ability to get his last year of his career as a thank you. He wasn't making $11.5M on the street. He can also contribute this year.

Wait, you want them to let Scherff go or trade him, but you are complaining that they haven't surrounded Haskins with talent? How would getting rid of the best player on the offensive line help Haskins out? That would have been yet one more hole to fill.

You’re missing my point Woz. If the idea is to not surround Haskins with talent or to not venture into free agency at all to add pass catching talent then why are we keeping Scherff on a massive one year franchise deal? We just lost the entire left side of our OL because we didn’t want to spend to keep them so why would we couple one super high-priced guard when the rest of the line is mediocre? 

[Woz]

29 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

You’re missing my point Woz. If the idea is to not surround Haskins with talent or to not venture into free agency at all to add pass catching talent then why are we keeping Scherff on a massive one year franchise deal? We just lost the entire left side of our OL because we didn’t want to spend to keep them so why would we couple one super high-priced guard when the rest of the line is mediocre? 

Well, Trent never played in front of Haskins so his "loss" is somewhat more ephemeral. Is Donald Penn better than Geron Christian? Maybe, but Donald Penn is also 36 years old. So, Christian is going to get a shot because they drafted him and he's young. Maybe he grows into the role. Maybe he fails and needs to be replaced. They need to find the answer there as well.

As for Flowers, I think letting him go was the right gamble. His track record in New York was bad (as in wouldn't put in the work). Miami effectively gave him a fully guaranteed two year deal with a third year on the back end in case they want it. Again, they drafted Wes Martin a year ago, maybe it's time to see what he can do as well.

What they don't have is a ready backup for Scherff. So, he stays on a large one year deal.

 

Rivera is not wedded to Haskins. He has no ties to him. He's putting him in a tough spot and forcing him to deal with the adversity a bit. If Haskins can shine through it, then Rivera will stick with him and focus on the other positions. If he cannot, Washington crashes and they'll be looking at a QB in a year or two but one Rivera gets to pick.

Is it cruel and Darwinian? Yes. But it could work.

 

They also could be waiting until they can remove Alex Smith from the cap to free up space to re-sign other players (Scherff's status will have to be addressed before that happens, though).

[Woz]

@lavar703 - it's actually the defense that's going to be a more interesting question of what happens in the offseason.

 

Per Spotrac, here are the 2021 unrestricted free agents:

OC Chase Roullier (starter)
OG Brandon Scherff (starter)
OT David Sharpe (reserve)

TE Jeremy Sprinkle (significant role player)

DE Ryan Kerrigan (significant role player)
DE Ryan Anderson (reserve)

OLB Kevin Pierre-Louis (starter)
OLB Thomas Davis (reserve)
ILB Reuben Foster (reserve) [IR]

CB Ronald Darby (starter)
CB Fabian Moreau (significant role player)

LS Nick Sundberg (starter)
K Dustin Hopkins (starter)

 

So, they have a possible gap filler for Scherff in Wes Schweitzer (signed through the 2022 season). This allowed them to have Scherff prove it to them that he's worth a new contract and/or bump up his value for the next team. They have both Keith Ismael and Ross Pierschbacher as possible replacements for Roullier should the center decide to run for the hills. They might keep Sharpe around simply to validate trading for him, but I suspect it's not a high priority for the team. Sprinkle is probably going to need to find a new home next year.

Kerrigan and Davis are almost assuredly going to be allowed to walk, and I don't see Rivera wasting time with Foster or Anderson. However, KPL, Darby, and Moreau are going to be interesting situations to watch. Also, possibly losing two thirds of their specialists is not good; I would expect them to keep both on reasonable contracts (barring a horrific meltdown by Hopkins this season).

 

2021 restricted/exclusive rights free agents (RFAs are unlikely to be signed away, ERFAs cannot be signed away if tended)

G Michael Liedtke [RFA, IR]
CB Danny Johnson [RFA]
QB Kyle Allen [ERFA]
TE Marcus Baugh [ERFA]
CB Simeon Thomas [ERFA, suspended]

Johnson, Allen, and Baugh are guys to watch. How they do might dictate how things go at other positions.

 

2022 unrestricted free agents (I assume Washington picks up Da'Ron Payne's 5th year option, barring some sort of scandal)

LT Geron Christian (starter)
RT Cornelius Lucas (reserve)

RB Peyton Barber
RB J.D. McKissic

TE Logan Thomas

DT Jonathan Allen
DT Tim Settle

ILB Jon Bostic
ILB Shaun Dion Hamilton

S Troy Apke

CB Greg Stroman

 

Left tackle is going to have to be decided by 2022, preferably by next offseason. Pick one guy (or draft one in the 2021 draft) and make that your long term answer. If that's Charles, you can defer this for a couple of years. I'm not convinced he's the answer though. The RBs are depth and replaceable; let them walk. Thomas is probably going to be an age casualty as he'll be 31 when the 2022 season begins.

Again, the defense is going to be a big question. Allen is obviously the biggest name, but Washington will have to think carefully about how his contract and how it deals with Payne. Hopefully, they will have invested something at ILB before this point because they should be already thinking of the post-Bostic era. Hopefully, that's Cole Holcomb? Keep in mind that if you include Johnson (he would be a UFA in 2022 if not signed long term), four of the six corners on the roster now will be gone by 2022 unless some are resigned. Curl is probably an Apke hedge but who knows if that is going to work.

 

2022 restricted/exclusive rights free agents

WR Steven Sims Jr. [RFA]
WR Jordan Veasy [ERFA]
WR Emanuel Hall [ERFA]
DE Ryan Bee [ERFA]

Depending on how Sims plays this year, they might want to tie him up earlier than 2022. The rest are depth.

 

 

We can do 2023 but too many factors are probably in flight to really worry about it. Terry McLaurin leads this class (assuming Dwayne Haskins and Montez Sweat's 5th year options are picked up).