Final Roster Cuts/Moves Thread

[Woz]

On 9/6/2020 at 10:42 AM, Thaiphoon said:

Ahh...okay. Sorry. It was late last night and I wasn't understanding. Yeah, I can see why they would do that. We stashed Stan Humphries for a mysterious "blood disorder" if I'm not mistaken

That was it. Knew the team played some shenanigans back in the day.

[Woz]

On 9/6/2020 at 12:31 PM, Skins212689 said:

Who has been added to the offense that will help improve that 16.6 ppg?

Ron Rivera and Scott Turner?

[Woz]

On 9/6/2020 at 1:01 PM, lavar703 said:

I simply cannot believe we’re going into the season with this offensive line, wide receiver and TE group. This has to be the worst group of offensive talent in the NFL. If they aren’t tanking then I have no idea what they are doing 

It's what happens when you trade away a 2nd round pick in a WR rich draft and finally end the Trent Williams debacle. Oh, and there were really no TEs to be had this past year.

It's going to be a rough year. We shouldn't expect much this year. What we're looking for is glimmers of talent or hungry play. Less holding, false starts, offsides, etc. Things to build on for the future.

[MKnight82]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

Which is what I thought was the case. I even said I didn't agree with the logic ... and still we argued about it?

That is the problem with the world today.  The loudest people get all of the attention instead of the ones that deserve it. 

[Woz]

On 9/6/2020 at 5:18 PM, Skins212689 said:

The offense will be at best 25th. Haskins will throw 3,500 passing yards 24 Tds 12 Ints at. 

On 9/6/2020 at 5:41 PM, Skins212689 said:

Actually I think that's too many TD's with no 1 to throw TD's to but Mclaruin. If Gibson, Iman, Sims, step up that is my projected numbers for Haskins. Without them stepping up Big. Haskins only throws for 16 TD's. 

 

Just to be clear, you think Haskins to play the same as Allen (last year Allen was 303-489 (62.0%), 3322 yards, 17 TD, 16 INT in 12 starts). Slightly better on the TD:INT ratio, but slightly worse on the YPA (assuming Haskins plays the full 16).

As I said in the other thread (re: what happens if Haskins is middling but they're out of position to draft Lawrence and Fields), context matters. Were those INTs backbreakers when the team still had a chance to win, or were they in garbage time when the team was trying desperately to catch up and the opponents weren't really worried about the run? Likewise, were the TDs scored in garbage time, or were they scored when the game was in the balance? What happens if the team as a whole rushes for 14-16 TDs so there isn't as much on Haskins' shoulders?

Context matters.

 

All of this swirl ahead of not seeing a single snap is great for the post metrics here at FF, but kind of pointless in the grand scheme of things. I think a regroup and analysis after the Baltimore Ravens game (week 4) would make a lot of sense. They will have played a division rival and a Super Bowl contender at home, and a pair of bottom feeders on the road. At the same time, we'll also know how those teams look too to get a sense of where they are and what the result might mean.

As an example: let's say I predict Washington stuns Baltimore 21-17 in week 4. That's pretty out there, right? Now, if I made that prediction with Lamar Jackson not playing a down and RG3 going down in the first quarter so the team was run by Trace McSorley .. that doesn't look as amazing, no?

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

That was it. Knew the team played some shenanigans back in the day.

Yeah, like I said. I remember quite a bit about Redskins Washington football since the 70s.

[Woz]

On 9/6/2020 at 8:23 PM, naptownskinsfan said:

I come from a family of coaches and can break down film. 

I'm honestly asking this: can you please do some of this during the season? Or at least one time, showing positives and negatives? It doesn't have to be with Haskins (though that would obviously highly preferred), but just a way for a layman like me to point to things to look for?

I realize this is a massive amount of work, but even just a one-off "here's things to look for" would be great!

[Skins212689]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

Ron Rivera and Scott Turner?

Last time I checked they aren't playing on the field. You can believe they will turn one of these Rookies or Sims into a 800 yard WR but until I see It, I don't believe that will happen. 

Gandy-Golden is the guy I think has the best chance to do that but we don't know for sure if he will. 

[Skins212689]

32 minutes ago, Woz said:

Just to be clear, you think Haskins to play the same as Allen (last year Allen was 303-489 (62.0%), 3322 yards, 17 TD, 16 INT in 12 starts). Slightly better on the TD:INT ratio, but slightly worse on the YPA (assuming Haskins plays the full 16).

As I said in the other thread (re: what happens if Haskins is middling but they're out of position to draft Lawrence and Fields), context matters. Were those INTs backbreakers when the team still had a chance to win, or were they in garbage time when the team was trying desperately to catch up and the opponents weren't really worried about the run? Likewise, were the TDs scored in garbage time, or were they scored when the game was in the balance? What happens if the team as a whole rushes for 14-16 TDs so there isn't as much on Haskins' shoulders?

Context matters.

 

All of this swirl ahead of not seeing a single snap is great for the post metrics here at FF, but kind of pointless in the grand scheme of things. I think a regroup and analysis after the Baltimore Ravens game (week 4) would make a lot of sense. They will have played a division rival and a Super Bowl contender at home, and a pair of bottom feeders on the road. At the same time, we'll also know how those teams look too to get a sense of where they are and what the result might mean.

As an example: let's say I predict Washington stuns Baltimore 21-17 in week 4. That's pretty out there, right? Now, if I made that prediction with Lamar Jackson not playing a down and RG3 going down in the first quarter so the team was run by Trace McSorley .. that doesn't look as amazing, no?

Why did you Put Haskins out there with no Proven Weapons? 

Name a Winning Franchise that did that to their 2nd year QB going into his 1 season in a new offense and he succeeded. 

I didn't care to read this whole post. Your points are irrelevant to MY POINT. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Skins212689

[MikeT14]

4 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Last time I checked they aren't playing on the field. You can believe they will turn one of these Rookies or Sims into a 800 yard WR but until I see It, I don't believe that will happen. 

Gandy-Golden is the guy I think has the best chance to do that but we don't know for sure if he will. 

Just when I thought we made progress above... 

1 minute ago, Skins212689 said:

Why did you Put Haskins out there with no Proven Weapons? 

Name a Winning Franchise that did that to their 2nd year QB and he succeeded. 

I didn't care to read this whole post. Your points are irrelevant to MY POINT. 

BAM!

[Skins212689]

31 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

Just when I thought we made progress above... 

BAM!

Are you @Woz really strange how no one get's what I'm saying accept @mar29020and  @lavar703 so anybody else just agree to disagree.

If I'm proven wrong at the end of the year LET ME HAVE IT. I WILL OWN UP TO EVERYTHING I WAS INCORRECT ABOUT. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Skins212689

[Woz]

On 9/6/2020 at 11:06 PM, Skins212689 said:

They didn't let Fitzgerald go and they drafted Christian Kirk.

It was more Fitzgerald chose to stay. People were a bit surprised that he didn't leave to go get a shot at a ring. Instead he took a couple extra paydays (probably more lucrative ones than he could have gotten on the open market) to stay in Arizona.

As for the draft, what exactly should they have done? Remember, they had signed Paul Richardson and

2019

• 1.15 (15) QB Dwayne Haskins
• 1.26 (26) DE Montez Sweat (traded up from 2.14, gave up 2020 2nd to do it)
• <native 2.14 (46) pick traded away to Indianapolis in order to acquire Montez Sweat during 2019 draft>
• 3.12 (76) WR Terry McLaurin
• <compensatory 3.33 (96) pick traded away to Buffalo in exchange for 4.10 (112) and 4.29 (131) during 2019 draft>
• 4.10 (112) [from Buffalo] RB Bryce Love
• <native 4.16 (118) traded away to Green Bay in order to acquire Ha Ha Clinton-Dix during 2018 season>
• 4.29 (131) [from Buffalo] OG Wes Martin
• 5.15 (153) OC Ross Pierschbacher
• 5.35 (173) LB Cole Holcomb
• <native 6th round pick forfeited to select Adonis Alexander in 2018 Supplemental Draft>
• 6.33 (206) WR Kelvin Harmon
• 7.13 (227) CB Jimmy Moreland
• 7.39 (253) DE Jordan Brailford

OFF: 6 picks (2 in top 100, 3 in 101-200)
DEF: 4 picks (1 in top 100, 1 in 101-200)

2020

• 1.02 (2) DE Chase Young
• <native 2.02 (34) pick traded away to Indianapolis in order to acquire Montez Sweat during 2019 draft>
• 3.02 (66) RB Antonio Gibson
• 4.02 (108) OT Saahdiq Charles
• 4.36 (142) WR Antonio Gandy-Golden
• <native 5.02 (148) pick traded away to Carolina in order to acquire Kyle Allen before the 2019 draft>
• 5.10 (156) [from San Francisco in exchange for Trent Williams] OC Keith Ismael
• 5.16 (152) [from Pittsburgh in exchange for Quinton Dunbar] OLB Khaleke Hudson
• <native 6.02 (181) pick traded away to Denver in order to acquire Case Keenum before the 2018 season>
• 7.02 (216) SS Kamren Curl
• 7.15 (229) [from Denver as part of the Case Keenum draft] DE James Smith-Williams

OFF: 4 picks (1 in top 100, 3 in 101-200)
DEF: 4 picks (1 in top 100, 1 in 101-200)

 

So, unless they were supposed to bypass Montez Sweat and Chase Young, what did they do (or not do) that irritates you so? Is there a different player they should have taken at these positions that would have changed the whole shebang for you? I mean, I could argue maybe they should have taken Harrison Bryant (the tight end out of Florida Atlantic) instead of Saahdiq Charles, but I can understand why they took Charles as they desperately needed offensive line talent and didn't know that he would barely practice the entire preseason. At the same time, taking a guy who could protect your QB's blindside is giving your quarterback weapons (or at least the extra time to find the other weapons).

For all of your harping that these guys on defense are unproven, so is Chase Young. He hasn't shown a lick of anything. Yet. Maybe Gibson or Gandy-Golden will surprise us. Maybe Wright will come out of nowhere as a UDFA. Maybe Sims and Inman might be serviceable.

 

AGAIN, free agents do not come to Washington right now unless they have no other options and/or the team pays above market price for players. Yes, they didn't get Amari Cooper to come to DC. He chose to stick with Dallas on a slightly smaller contract. Do you think Randall Cobb (highly injury prone and risky at 3y/$27M/$18M guaranteed), Emmanuel Sanders (good but 2y/$24M/$10M guaranteed for a 33 year old receiver?), or Robby Anderson (above average player getting 2y/$20M/$12M guaranteed) would have been that much better signing? Those are the four guys who got multi year contracts this year. Yes, Inman might suck, but he's on a one year $0.91M contract. Either he balls out in which case he's a steal or he doesn't and is gone.

Oh, what about tight ends? Austin Hooper chose to chase the money in Cleveland (4y/$42M/$23M guaranteed), but even the Browns have the hope of an upswing relative to Washington. The others on the market Jimmy Graham (2y/$16M/$9M guaranteed to a soon-to-be 34 year old whose been a shadow of his former self the past two seasons), Eric Ebron (2y/$12M/$5M guaranteed ... flashes talent but never stays healthy enough to put it all together regularly), Tyler Eifert (2y/$9.5M/$3.25M guaranteed ... even more Ebron than Ebron), or Greg Olsen (1y/$7M/$5.5M guaranteed)? Those guys could have made a difference possibly ... but they had other options. Of course, Eifert went to Jacksonville so there's questions about his football acumen (did WFT not want him? or did he pick the Jags over Washington? I have no idea).

[Skins212689]

1 minute ago, Woz said:

It was more Fitzgerald chose to stay. People were a bit surprised that he didn't leave to go get a shot at a ring. Instead he took a couple extra paydays (probably more lucrative ones than he could have gotten on the open market) to stay in Arizona.

As for the draft, what exactly should they have done? Remember, they had signed Paul Richardson and

2019

• 1.15 (15) QB Dwayne Haskins
• 1.26 (26) DE Montez Sweat (traded up from 2.14, gave up 2020 2nd to do it)
• <native 2.14 (46) pick traded away to Indianapolis in order to acquire Montez Sweat during 2019 draft>
• 3.12 (76) WR Terry McLaurin
• <compensatory 3.33 (96) pick traded away to Buffalo in exchange for 4.10 (112) and 4.29 (131) during 2019 draft>
• 4.10 (112) [from Buffalo] RB Bryce Love
• <native 4.16 (118) traded away to Green Bay in order to acquire Ha Ha Clinton-Dix during 2018 season>
• 4.29 (131) [from Buffalo] OG Wes Martin
• 5.15 (153) OC Ross Pierschbacher
• 5.35 (173) LB Cole Holcomb
• <native 6th round pick forfeited to select Adonis Alexander in 2018 Supplemental Draft>
• 6.33 (206) WR Kelvin Harmon
• 7.13 (227) CB Jimmy Moreland
• 7.39 (253) DE Jordan Brailford

OFF: 6 picks (2 in top 100, 3 in 101-200)
DEF: 4 picks (1 in top 100, 1 in 101-200)

2020

• 1.02 (2) DE Chase Young
• <native 2.02 (34) pick traded away to Indianapolis in order to acquire Montez Sweat during 2019 draft>
• 3.02 (66) RB Antonio Gibson
• 4.02 (108) OT Saahdiq Charles
• 4.36 (142) WR Antonio Gandy-Golden
• <native 5.02 (148) pick traded away to Carolina in order to acquire Kyle Allen before the 2019 draft>
• 5.10 (156) [from San Francisco in exchange for Trent Williams] OC Keith Ismael
• 5.16 (152) [from Pittsburgh in exchange for Quinton Dunbar] OLB Khaleke Hudson
• <native 6.02 (181) pick traded away to Denver in order to acquire Case Keenum before the 2018 season>
• 7.02 (216) SS Kamren Curl
• 7.15 (229) [from Denver as part of the Case Keenum draft] DE James Smith-Williams

OFF: 4 picks (1 in top 100, 3 in 101-200)
DEF: 4 picks (1 in top 100, 1 in 101-200)

 

So, unless they were supposed to bypass Montez Sweat and Chase Young, what did they do (or not do) that irritates you so? Is there a different player they should have taken at these positions that would have changed the whole shebang for you? I mean, I could argue maybe they should have taken Harrison Bryant (the tight end out of Florida Atlantic) instead of Saahdiq Charles, but I can understand why they took Charles as they desperately needed offensive line talent and didn't know that he would barely practice the entire preseason. At the same time, taking a guy who could protect your QB's blindside is giving your quarterback weapons (or at least the extra time to find the other weapons).

For all of your harping that these guys on defense are unproven, so is Chase Young. He hasn't shown a lick of anything. Yet. Maybe Gibson or Gandy-Golden will surprise us. Maybe Wright will come out of nowhere as a UDFA. Maybe Sims and Inman might be serviceable.

 

AGAIN, free agents do not come to Washington right now unless they have no other options and/or the team pays above market price for players. Yes, they didn't get Amari Cooper to come to DC. He chose to stick with Dallas on a slightly smaller contract. Do you think Randall Cobb (highly injury prone and risky at 3y/$27M/$18M guaranteed), Emmanuel Sanders (good but 2y/$24M/$10M guaranteed for a 33 year old receiver?), or Robby Anderson (above average player getting 2y/$20M/$12M guaranteed) would have been that much better signing? Those are the four guys who got multi year contracts this year. Yes, Inman might suck, but he's on a one year $0.91M contract. Either he balls out in which case he's a steal or he doesn't and is gone.

Oh, what about tight ends? Austin Hooper chose to chase the money in Cleveland (4y/$42M/$23M guaranteed), but even the Browns have the hope of an upswing relative to Washington. The others on the market Jimmy Graham (2y/$16M/$9M guaranteed to a soon-to-be 34 year old whose been a shadow of his former self the past two seasons), Eric Ebron (2y/$12M/$5M guaranteed ... flashes talent but never stays healthy enough to put it all together regularly), Tyler Eifert (2y/$9.5M/$3.25M guaranteed ... even more Ebron than Ebron), or Greg Olsen (1y/$7M/$5.5M guaranteed)? Those guys could have made a difference possibly ... but they had other options. Of course, Eifert went to Jacksonville so there's questions about his football acumen (did WFT not want him? or did he pick the Jags over Washington? I have no idea).

Did they even offer those guys a contract? Did they even attempt to see if they wanted to come here? Or did they fake like they wanted Cooper with that low offer of guaranteed money. It seems that way to me.

Did Rivera think Olsen would come here just like Davis but he choose elsewhere so they really didn't have a backup plan after turned down by Olsen and Hooper? I think so. 

Ebron and Graham are better than freaking Thomas or Rodgers. And they passed on multiple opportunities to get a TE in the draft. 

Robby Anderson was on the market for a while and yes I'd sign him to compete or at least keep the pressure on Sims Jr to prove he is legit. Anderson is a safer option than Steven Sims Jr at this point in their careers.

I guaranteed if Lawrence was the QB and he went through a off-season like this and they ended up drafting top 5 people wouldn't be asking for a new QB to replace him. Lawrence to me career at Clemson can't touch Deshaun Watson's and Watson lasted until pick 12. I don't get the hype about Lawrence. But that's just me and I could be wrong. 

[Troublez]

13 hours ago, e16bball said:

Kinda curious to know what level of performance you think would be surprising to the forum. 

As in - I think he keeps us competitive and we are still in the mix for the playoffs in early December (I could care less about Stats). Talent is not always a derivative of high profile signings. Rather, how well a group of guys buys into a system and executes.
 

Look, this is a team game and he has made great strides to be a leader. Add in a competent coaching staff and an excuse to our perform their competition  (I.e. as a result of COVID).... this could be anyone's year.... I bet we are pretty dang happy with Dwayne. 

[Woz]

On 9/7/2020 at 10:45 AM, Skins212689 said:

They don't get Cooper or Hooper so they basically just said F it lets sign a couple of Unproven guys to 1 year deals. That's not helping your QB especially a guy going into his 2nd season and 1st in a new offense. 

So, who should they have signed once Cooper and Hooper got away? The market wasn't that bountiful with talent. Almost all of the players got 1 year deals.