Sugashane Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 7 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said: For those of you who keep talking the tackle position, I have two questions for you. Did any of you have a problem with the Mack trade? Did any of you have a problem with those positions after 2018 season? Mack trade? No. Pace has flopped on 1st rounders with regularity so actually getting an elite talent for them is a pure win. Would do again with zero hesitation. After the 2018 season? Yes. I've said for years Leno and Massie were average at best. They played well enough to me to not need a big FA signing but he absolutely needed to add talent. Not taking at least one swing at OT in a draft should be an irregularity. 12 minutes ago, soulman said: I think it's pretty simple. Pace chose Mack over drafting rookie OTs. Without a 1st round pick two years running his best bet was to lock up Leno and Massie for less than either may have gotten as UFAs and hope for the best 'til he could fix the OL like he has the DL and OLB. Not much else he could have done with his limitations. Being realistic here our track record drafting 1st round OTs is more pitiful than our track record drafting QBs. Fortunately that track record belongs to the departed JA so we can always hope Pace can do better. He should have all of his Day One and Day Two picks next spring so I expect the OL will be a priority in the draft. But I also believe that once you get passed the first four or five rookie OT prospects the rest are all a bit of a crap shoot. Teams will draft from that crop based on whose a fit for their schemes many times leaving project types with more upside on the board. Pace seems to have shopped more from that third list lately. The NFL is full of failed 1st round OTs and has it share of successful starter who were drafted later in the draft. So it seems to be that scheme fit and good coaching can go a long way towards developing good NFL OTs as long as they have the basic physical requirements needed to play on the edge. I respectfully disagree brotha. Outside of the Montgomery poxk none were critical needs and even then there were FAs that could patch holes at HB, CB, and WR. We may have got a guy to at least be able to play RG better than Coward, which wouldnt be a nig expectation of a 3rd or 4th round rookie. True, JA was horrible there and Pace isn't tethered to his record, but Pace hasnt drafted an OT earlier than the 6th. That's arguably worse. While there is a bit a crap shoot factor to it Pace is supposed to be a damn good scout so I don't think he would use that rationale. He claims he takes the best player approach but positions have to play a factor. I'm more than happy to eat my words but he hasn't shown success there at all yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 6 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said: For those of you who keep talking the tackle position, I have two questions for you. Did any of you have a problem with the Mack trade? Did any of you have a problem with those positions after 2018 season? 1) I have zero issues with the Mack trade. Getting a player who I feel is a future HOF pass rusher was a smart move. 2) We all had a problem with our OTs in 2019 but both played at an average to above average level in 2018. Let's face it. The entire right side of the OL was a mess last year. Long simply couldn't cut it any longer. His injuries had done too much damage and that's a shame because the kind of play and leadership he provided before those was a key to the success of the OL. We also lost Massie for six games. Coward may have a future in the NFL but with only one year as an OL he was far from ready to be plugged in at RG when Long had to be benched. There's some hope that by next year Coward and maybe Spriggs as well can be in line to replace Massie. At age 32 with only a $2.6 mil dead cap hit vs an $8 mil salary you know we're gonna be looking to replace him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 6 hours ago, dll2000 said: I had problems with position before 2018. Long too. I thought he should have been traded long ago when his value was high. First time I proposed it I had tomato’s thrown at me. Because his value was high. Bears fans never want to sell high. Only when everyone knows a player is finished and you can get nothing. Then they expect high rounders in return and are mad when they don’t get it. Given that Long was coming back from offseason surgery for three years in a row I'm not all that certain we could have sold high anyway. If he wasn't a Bear and we were shopping for him what would you have given up for him based on his deal at that time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, Sugashane said: I respectfully disagree brotha. Outside of the Montgomery poxk none were critical needs and even then there were FAs that could patch holes at HB, CB, and WR. We may have got a guy to at least be able to play RG better than Coward, which wouldnt be a nig expectation of a 3rd or 4th round rookie. True, JA was horrible there and Pace isn't tethered to his record, but Pace hasnt drafted an OT earlier than the 6th. That's arguably worse. While there is a bit a crap shoot factor to it Pace is supposed to be a damn good scout so I don't think he would use that rationale. He claims he takes the best player approach but positions have to play a factor. I'm more than happy to eat my words but he hasn't shown success there at all yet. Until camp and then again once the season began I believe we were counting on Kyle Long to be at least 80%-90% able to play at a high level. We were wrong and paid the price for it. But Coward did get some valuable experience inside and we've added Ifedi now so let's hope we plugged that hole for now. As for not drafting OTs high the only draft where I think it would have made any difference was his first one. He had Leno at LT who for a 7th round pick showed he could handle the job and he was young and cheap. He's still quite young (28) just not as cheap. He signed Massie as a FA in 2016. While he sucked to begin with he's improved a lot and in both cases (until Massie in 2019) both have remained healthy and available. At their best both are average to slightly above average. While I agree that we need to upgrade RT as soon as we can Leno is a decent pass blocker and always has been. He'll be a little tougher to replace and if the rest of the OL comes together under Castillo and Lazor we may not have to for a bit. So if I'm Pace I'd focus on drafting a stud RT in 2021 who may be able to handle LT once he has some game experience at RT and the proper coaching. We do have a few others around who may step up. Hard to tell just yet. Maybe the fact that he is a good scout and personnel guy is why he hasn't reached for any OTs earlier. I believe we were all in on Spriggs in 2016 yet he was unable to hold down a starting job in GB after they jumped in front of us to take him. We drafted Whitehair instead who was a college OT and is turning into a very good OC. Pace drafted Hambright in April and he's made the roster at LG but he also played LT in college. He's one of those late round guys with some upside. So I don't think Pace has ignored the OL as much as he hasn't made a priority of OT if only because he wasn't in a position in 2019 and 2020 to spend a top pick on one and downline he did find better players at other positions. I'm sticking with my belief that with rookie OTs there are only a handful at best who are NFL ready as rookies and the rest all require time and great coaching in order to make it as a starter. Case in point. Is Spriggs better than Massie or Leno right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 1 minute ago, soulman said: I'm sticking with my belief that with rookie OTs there are only a handful at best who are NFL ready as rookies and the rest all require time and great coaching in order to make it as a starter. This is why him drafting so few OTs is an issue to me. They need time develop and trying to draft that stud RT means you're going against your own odds. Get OTs, develop them, and scatter OTs all along the OL is my belief. You can put athletic guys that do well in space anywhere practically. It's what they did with Whitehair, and I fully believe he could have played RT if that was where they wanted to put him (though agree OG was a better spot). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Bears are 4-9 over the last 2 seasons when allowing 20+ points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 52 minutes ago, abstract_thought said: Bears are 4-9 over the last 2 seasons when allowing 20+ points. I just had a buddy text me "defense not looking good." Like dude, the offense has 13 points. How many ****ing NFL games are won with 13 points? I am so god damn sick of this garbage my whole life. Waste more All Pros and HOF'ers why don't we Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 34 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: I just had a buddy text me "defense not looking good." Like dude, the offense has 13 points. How many ****ing NFL games are won with 13 points? I am so god damn sick of this garbage my whole life. Waste more All Pros and HOF'ers why don't we Wow. This didn't age well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said: Wow. This didn't age well. What didn't age well about it? Did a team win today scoring 13? Edited September 13, 2020 by beardown3231 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 1 minute ago, beardown3231 said: What didn't age well about it? Did a team suddenly win today scoring 13? Probably the W hanging next to our Chicago Bears' Week 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 1 minute ago, G08 said: Probably the W hanging next to our Chicago Bears' Week 1 And the 21 points the offense put up in the 4th Q including a game winning drive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, G08 said: Probably the W hanging next to our Chicago Bears' Week 1 Did I say "the Bears will lose?" 4 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said: And the 21 points the offense put up in the 4th Q including a game winning drive. Did I say "the offense won't score again?" I'm not sure about you two, but I'm still sick of scoring 6 points every 3 quarters. This is quite the reach by you guys, especially considering the praise I was dumping on Trubisky for that entire final 15 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Just now, beardown3231 said: Did I say "the Bears will lose?" Did I say "the offense won't score again?" I'm not sure about you two, but I'm still sick of scoring 6 points every 3 quarters. This is quite the reach by you guys, especially considering the praise I was dumping on Trubisky for that entire final 15 minutes. You insinuated the offense was garbage and we were wasting All-pros. You spoke too soon. Admit it and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said: You insinuated the offense was garbage and we were wasting All-pros. You spoke too soon. Admit it and move on. You're really going to let 1 quarter against the Lions change your opinion of the offense? Like, do you think they are a non-garbage offense now? Let's see them score 27+ a few more times this year before we insinuate that they're even average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Moving on, as I've been asked to do, I thought Ifedi was very good today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.