Kyle Allen Your New Starter

[e16bball]

That’s probably the end of the line for me with Rivera. 

You just can’t let coaches make personnel decisions. That’s all there is to it. Rivera traded for Kyle Allen, who was “one of his guys” — and just as importantly, one of Turner’s guys from the only year he’s ever had a meaningful coaching role. We probably should have seen it as more of an issue at the time than we did: we joked about them valuing a terrible young QB at the same level as a good young CB, but we probably didn’t recognize that it spoke to how desperate they were to have someone they “know” in all the places of power in the organization. Allen was over there on the sidelines, knowing the offense better, being more conversant with the concepts and the verbiage, probably more likely to make the right reads right now. And Rivera just couldn’t resist.
 

There is no world in which Kyle Allen could be viewed as a better long-term prospect than Dwayne Haskins. Let’s tell his story.

This is a guy who once was a hotshot 5-star recruit. He goes to Texas A&M and loses a competition for the job with Kenny Hill. He eventually takes over the job, and does okay, but then he gets benched, possibly after an injury (and, okay, it was for Kyler Murray). He gives up on trying to beat out Kyler and transfers to Houston, where he gets handed the starting job (obviously). But he struggled there after a few games and got benched again. That time it was for Kyle Postma. Unless there are members of the Postma family on this board, I’m sure we’re all thinking the same thing (“who??”).

He then goes undrafted in 2018. He was rated the #11 QB in the draft by both Kiper and McShay, for reference. The Panthers cut him after training camp — per the reports at the time, he was legitimately 4th in the competition, lagging behind Taylor Heinicke and Garrett Gilbert (another “who??” seems appropriate). The latter was the noteworthy cut at the time, Allen is not even mentioned in the reports of the cuts. No one wanted him and they signed him to their PS. They then cut him from their PS, choosing to replace him with DT Kendrick Norton (cue another “who??”). He was replaceable because the Panthers had signed Connor Cook, and the beat writers at the time were surprised they’d kept Allen around that long. 

Eventually they bring him back to their PS, and when Cam gets shut down for the season, he gets bumped up to the active roster before Week 16. He comes in that week for the injured starter, Taylor Heinicke, and then gets the Week 17 start, where he played okay against the Saints’ backups. 

He comes into the 2019 season as the backup, and gets thrust into the starting role after Cam’s season-ending foot injury. He starts off legitimately great as the full-time starter (kind of a trend developing here). Sorta pedestrian numbers, but 4-0 with 7 TDs and 0 INTs is great work for a young QB. Then the wheels came off the cart (there’s that darned trend again). In his last 9 starts, he goes 1-8 with 10 TDs and 16 INTs (71 passer rating). He gets benched for Will Grier. Ends the season with 17 TDs, 23 turnovers (16 INTs and 7 lost fumbles), 6.6 Y/A, and a 38.3 QBR that placed him 29th out of 30 QBs, closer to #30 (Mason Rudolph) than #28. This is on a team with DJ Moore, Curtis Samuel, Greg Olsen, and of course Christian McCaffrey. 

Then they trade him here, choosing to sign Teddy Bridgewater for $20M/year to be their starter and going with Will Grier and P.J. Walker as their backups. 

Not much more to add to the story, except to say that I bolded all the QBs that teams have chosen over Allen throughout his young college/pro career. These are people who saw him, knew him, coached him — and decided they wanted someone else. And now Ron Rivera has decided that 4 games, with no offseason and no preseason, is enough to choose this guy over Dwayne Haskins. Bit of a head scratcher.

Edited October 7, 2020 by e16bball

[Thaiphoon]

5 minutes ago, Slateman said:

This is such a DC move. 

There is zero point in this move. This isn't a competitive football team and they know that. They aren't making the playoffs and even if they did, they aren't competitive. Your head coach is literally sitting out defensive plays because of his cancer. You have a garbage offensive line.

Haskins was known to be a project. He had one year being the starter at Ohio State. It was known he needed a lot of work. Benching him does nothing to develop him at this point. He spent the majority of last season on the bench. He needs reps.

Moreover, his value is rock bottom right now. If Rivera wants to draft HIS guy, then we should be looking to maximize trade value for Haskins.

Overall, this is the bad decision, desperation move we expected under the Bruce Allen regime. Seems pretty clear that Rivera is being overwhelmed and, at the same time, being told that he has to win now.

All of this ^^^^

[turtle28]

5 minutes ago, Slateman said:

This is such a DC move. 

There is zero point in this move. This isn't a competitive football team and they know that. They aren't making the playoffs and even if they did, they aren't competitive. Your head coach is literally sitting out defensive plays because of his cancer. You have a garbage offensive line.

Haskins was known to be a project. He had one year being the starter at Ohio State. It was known he needed a lot of work. Benching him does nothing to develop him at this point. He spent the majority of last season on the bench. He needs reps.

Moreover, his value is rock bottom right now. If Rivera wants to draft HIS guy, then we should be looking to maximize trade value for Haskins.

Overall, this is the bad decision, desperation move we expected under the Bruce Allen regime. Seems pretty clear that Rivera is being overwhelmed and, at the same time, being told that he has to win now.

It was reported that Rivera made the move w/o consulting Dan Snyder. If Dan was consulted I don’t think he would have agreed but, we do what the football guys making the decisions. Other than that, I’m 100% in agreement with your post and we both know that happens like once a year! 😂 

[Thaiphoon]

40 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

When they break down the film,  He must have been leaving plays on the table all over. I could see a bunch of this just just watching clips myself and no way can I critique Q B play !

He was. I saw them too. So they must've seen worse. 

Still. If Ron was going after his QB in 2021, then the smart move was to develop Dwayne as much as possible to increase his value.

[RSkinGM]

Tomorrow's stunner Headline . Snyder fires Rivera-Brings in McConnell as H C. McConnell reinstates Haskins as the starter !

[Thaiphoon]

38 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

I think it was the throw on 4th and goal from the 13.. He failed that exam BIGTIME. I could have taken an END ZONE interception over that play . 

There were a few others, but yeah, that one goes to my "situational awareness" part of my earlier post.

[turtle28]

3 minutes ago, e16bball said:

That’s probably the end of the line for me with Rivera. 

You just can’t let coaches make personnel decisions. That’s all there is to it. Rivera traded for Allen, who was “one of his guys” — and just as importantly, one of Turner’s guys from the only year he’s ever had a meaningful coaching role. We probably should have seen it as more of an issue at the time than we did: we joked about them valuing a terrible young QB at the same level as a good young CB, but we probably didn’t recognize that it spoke to how desperate they were to have someone they “know” in all the places of power in the organization. 
 

There is no world in which Kyle Allen could be viewed as a better long-term prospect than Dwayne Haskins. Let’s tell his story.

This is a guy who once was a hotshot 5-star recruit. He goes to Texas A&M and loses a competition for the job with Kenny Hill. He eventually takes over the job, and does okay, but then he gets benched, possibly after an injury (and, okay, it was for Kyler Murray). He gives up on trying to beat out Kyler and transfers to Houston, where he gets handed the starting job (obviously). But he struggled there after a few games and got benched again. That time it was for Kyle Postma. Unless there are members of the Postma family on this board, I’m sure we’re all thinking the same thing (“who??”).

He then goes undrafted in 2018. He was rated the #11 QB in the draft by both Kiper and McShay, for reference. The Panthers cut him after training camp — per the reports at the time, he was legitimately 4th in the competition, lagging behind Taylor Heinicke and Garrett Gilbert (another “who??” seems appropriate). The latter was the noteworthy cut at the time, Allen is not even mentioned in the reports of the cuts. No one wanted him and they signed him to their PS. They then cut him from their PS, choosing to replace him with DT Kendrick Norton (cue another “who??”). He was replaceable because the Panthers had signed Connor Cook, and the beat writers at the time were surprised they’d kept Allen around that long. 

Eventually they bring him back to their PS, and when Cam gets shut down for the season, he gets bumped up to the active roster before Week 16. He comes in that week for the injured starter, Taylor Heinicke, and then gets the Week 17 start, where he played okay against the Saints’ backups. 

He comes into the 2019 season as the backup, and gets thrust into the starting role after Cam’s season-ending foot injury. He starts off legitimately great as the full-time starter (kind of a trend developing here). Sorta pedestrian numbers, but 4-0 with 7 TDs and 0 INTs is great work for a young QB. Then the wheels came off the cart (there’s that darned trend again). In his last 9 starts, he goes 1-8 with 10 TDs and 16 INTs (71 passer rating). He gets benched for Will Grier. Ends the season with 17 TDs, 23 turnovers (16 INTs and 7 lost fumbles), 6.6 Y/A, and a 38.3 QBR that placed him 29th out of 30 QBs, closer to #30 (Mason Rudolph) than #28. This is on a team with DJ Moore, Curtis Samuel, Greg Olsen, and of course Christian McCaffrey. 

Then they trade him here, choosing to sign Teddy Bridgewater for $20M/year to be their starter and going with Will Grier and P.J. Walker as their backups. 

Not much more to add to the story, except to say that I bolded all the QBs that teams have chosen over Allen throughout his young college/pro career. These are people who saw him, knew him, coached him — and decided they wanted someone else. And now Ron Rivera has decided that 4 games, with no offseason and no preseason, is enough to choose this guy over Dwayne Haskins. Bit of a head scratcher.

[Thaiphoon]

33 minutes ago, Troublez said:

To me - Ron Rivera's reputation is that of a high integrity individual. Lots of players, coaches, and GM have lauded him for an honest approach. We as a fanbase, are shell-shocked and petty. So when a football move is made, we assume its done so in a back handed fashion. 

In my opinion, something must of happened that resulted in not only benching but Dwayne being designated 3rd string. I think back to his comments in the press recently, his agent, his twitter behavior, and his conversation with Thomas Davis. If Dwayne was not taking accountability, to me - that might be enough for the benching.... but not the demotion to 3rd string. We will be hearing more about this in the coming weeks.

And this is also entirely plausible. To send him all the way to 3rd string, tells me that it was more than just his play on the field.

[turtle28]

2 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

Tomorrow's stunner Headline . Snyder fires Rivera-Brings in McConnell as H C. McConnell reinstates Haskins as the starter !

I hope you mean O’Connell. I don’t want the Mc anywhere near the Washington Football team.

[e16bball]

Just now, RSkinGM said:

Tomorrow's stunner Headline . Snyder fires Rivera-Brings in McConnell as H C. McConnell reinstates Haskins as the starter !

If you mean Mitch, it’s a hard pass. If you mean Kevin (O’Connell), then I’m game.

Hard to understand how he could have Haskins posting a 131 passer rating over his last 2 starts, and yet Rivera/Turner can’t even get him to be playable (in their minds).

[RSkinGM]

Just now, Thaiphoon said:

There were a few others, but yeah, that one goes to my "situational awareness" part of my earlier post.

AND taking the sack on third down. I thought L Thomas open right in front of him over the middle. Short of the goal but a nice gain .

[RSkinGM]

Just now, turtle28 said:

I hope you mean O’Connell. I don’t want the Mc anywhere near the Washington Football team.

Thanks , yes. I'm still in shock ! Seriously I never remember anything this big coming outta nowhere . 

[RSkinGM]

2 minutes ago, e16bball said:

If you mean Mitch, it’s a hard pass. If you mean Kevin (O’Connell), then I’m game.

Hard to understand how he could have Haskins posting a 131 passer rating over his last 2 starts, and yet Rivera/Turner can’t even get him to be playable (in their minds).

You know the old axiom- Stats are for losers !

[turtle28]

1 minute ago, Thaiphoon said:

And this is also entirely plausible. To send him all the way to 3rd string, tells me that it was more than just his play on the field.

I think also we have to realize that Scott & Ron just don’t see Dwayne as their future franchise QB. Next years draft should be a great one for QBs. Honestly, I love Haskins, everyone knows it, but there are 3 QBs I’d take in college over him now - Lawrence, Fields & Trask - and I’m intrigued by Lance but I can’t say at this time I’d take him over Haskins.

If Ron already knows Haskins is not going to be his long term option, so get that, what I don’t get and won’t accept is benching Haskins w/o giving him 16 games.

That’s a huge mistake bc he could shock us all and be awesome in Nov & Dec - not likely but possible.

100% prevent agree with everyone’s take that benching him now and then presumably trading him in March or April after he doesn’t play another down for us is stupid bc we’re trading him at a low point in his stock.

That’s such a Washington thing. We did that with McNabb in 2011 and we did that with Trent too amongst others.

[Thaiphoon]

2 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I think also we have to realize that Scott & Ron just don’t see Dwayne as their future franchise QB. Next years draft should be a great one for QBs. Honestly, I love Haskins, everyone knows it, but there are 3 QBs I’d take in college over him now - Lawrence, Fields & Trask - and I’m intrigued by Lance but I can’t say at this time I’d take him over Haskins.

If Ron already knows Haskins is not going to be his long term option, so get that, what I don’t get and won’t accept is benching Haskins w/o giving him 16 games.

That’s a huge mistake bc he could shock us all and be awesome in Nov & Dec - not likely but possible.

100% prevent agree with everyone’s take that benching him now and then presumably trading him in March or April after he doesn’t play another down for us is stupid bc we’re trading him at a low point in his stock.

That’s such a Washington thing. We did that with McNabb in 2011 and we did that with Trent too amongst others.

I wish I had gotten one more season of watching Lance at NDSU. His season last year was nothing short of remarkable.