2021 NFL Draft Thread

[lavar703]

17 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/26/highly-drafted-quarterbacks-rarely-transform-bad-franchises/ 

 

In fact, of the NFL’s eight current division leaders, none drafted their quarterback first overall. None even drafted their quarterback in the Top 5.

Four current division leaders used a first-round pick on a quarterback, but none followed the “tanking” model to get him: The Chiefs were a playoff when they traded up to draft Patrick Mahomes. The Bills were a playoff team when they traded up to draft Josh Allen. The Packers were a playoff team when they drafted Aaron Rodgers. The Steelers were a 6-10 team but had been in the playoffs the two years before that when they drafted Ben Roethlisberger No. 11 overall.

The other four division leaders did not draft their starting quarterback in the first round: The Seahawks drafted Russell Wilson in the third round. The Saints signed Drew Brees as a free agent. Washington traded for Alex Smith after the Chiefs decided to move on from him. The Titans traded for Ryan Tannehill after the Dolphins decided to move on from him.

This is why I was 100% onboard the Chase Young train last year and I’m fine not picking in the top 10 this year although I’d love to have Zach Wilson. Trey Lance will be there and we’ll most likely have the opportunity to select him. He needs time but he is absolutely loaded with talented. Arm and legs, he can do it all. You pick him and let him sit behind Alex and move on from Haskins. He’s the closest thing to Josh Allen and he’s a little bit more of an accurate passer at this stage. For some reason I don’t think Lawrence ends up being the best QB out of this draft class. 

[MKnight82]

1 minute ago, lavar703 said:

This is why I was 100% onboard the Chase Young train last year and I’m fine not picking in the top 10 this year although I’d love to have Zach Wilson. Trey Lance will be there and we’ll most likely have the opportunity to select him. He needs time but he is absolutely loaded with talented. Arm and legs, he can do it all. You pick him and let him sit behind Alex and move on from Haskins. He’s the closest thing to Josh Allen and he’s a little bit more of an accurate passer at this stage. For some reason I don’t think Lawrence ends up being the best QB out of this draft class. 

Ya the point here is that bad teams are bad.  What's important is building a winning culture.  

[lavar703]

Just now, MKnight82 said:

Ya the point here is that bad teams are bad.  What's important is building a winning culture.  

How do you build a winning culture without a QB? 

[ripsean21]

21 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/26/highly-drafted-quarterbacks-rarely-transform-bad-franchises/ 

 

In fact, of the NFL’s eight current division leaders, none drafted their quarterback first overall. None even drafted their quarterback in the Top 5.

Four current division leaders used a first-round pick on a quarterback, but none followed the “tanking” model to get him: The Chiefs were a playoff when they traded up to draft Patrick Mahomes. The Bills were a playoff team when they traded up to draft Josh Allen. The Packers were a playoff team when they drafted Aaron Rodgers. The Steelers were a 6-10 team but had been in the playoffs the two years before that when they drafted Ben Roethlisberger No. 11 overall.

The other four division leaders did not draft their starting quarterback in the first round: The Seahawks drafted Russell Wilson in the third round. The Saints signed Drew Brees as a free agent. Washington traded for Alex Smith after the Chiefs decided to move on from him. The Titans traded for Ryan Tannehill after the Dolphins decided to move on from him.

Good write up because their is no formula. Yes the top pick should be a guy more advanced but we know what type of team is typically picking them in the top 5. I actually think the only good formula is having a talented roster and hoping your guy you do roll with gets those talented players to buy into them making whatever play to get the win. Leadership trumps just about all the ability when it comes to this position and panning out

[MKnight82]

1 minute ago, lavar703 said:

How do you build a winning culture without a QB? 

You try to win games.  You practice hard.  You hold players accountable.  You develop a smart and talented front office and coaching staff.  You build a strong foundation that can contribute to the success of a young QB.  

[MKnight82]

4 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

Good write up because their is no formula. Yes the top pick should be a guy more advanced but we know what type of team is typically picking them in the top 5. I actually think the only good formula is having a talented roster and hoping your guy you do roll with gets those talented players to buy into them making whatever play to get the win. Leadership trumps just about all the ability when it comes to this position and panning out

Ya, also the most valuable thing in football is a quality QB on a rookie contract.  That's why I think the model of building up the roster THEN drafting the first round QB is a better model than taking the QB then trying to build up the roster.  As soon as you draft that first round QB you're on the clock for when they need a ridiculously large extension.  Most teams picking in the top 5 are not in a position to compete for several years.  

[e16bball]

On 12/25/2020 at 7:09 AM, ripsean21 said:

Zaven Collins from Tulsa has really become the LB I’m super high on throughout the year he’s 6’-5”. You add that length to Chase Tez and Payne the way these guys knock passes man this guy would be just like that. Zaven is a slower version of the VT LB that buffalo drafted I can’t remember his name and I’m being lazy but I think Collins if he is there round 2 you jump on him if Brevin Jordan isn’t avalible

Have watched a bit of Collins and Owusu-Koromoah this morning. Want to watch more of both, but it’s kind of interesting watching them both at the same time because they’re basically polar opposites in terms of the two basic player prototypes you see at the OLB position. 

Owusu-Koromoah is the Isaiah Simmons of this draft — not quite the freakish athlete and certainly not the pedigree that Simmons had, but definitely that tweener/chess piece (depending on how you choose to look at it, I guess). To me, you put 10-12 pounds on him and he’s your absolute classic 4-3 WLB. Really fluid, legit speed, pretty instinctive, pretty impressive in coverage. They had him covering Amari Rodgers in the slot (on purpose) at times against Clemson, which is a tall task. And boy, when he pulls the trigger, he’s a missile. Knowing that they had interest in Simmons last year, and knowing that Rivera was part of the group that took another similar player in Shaq Thompson at 25 (despite already having two star LBs), I think JOK is going to be a strong consideration for them at 19 if he’s there. Speed kills, and pairing him with Holcomb might offset the lack of speed in the middle with Bostic. 

Collins is just a straight up football player. Instincts are out of this world, and he’s definitely a more reliable tackler than JOK (or just about anybody). Love watching him, because he has a feel for what offenses are doing and you can see him at times blowing up what they’re trying to do. He’s a throwback, kinda reminds of the guys you see the Patriots running with at their OLB positions. The concern for me is whether you need him to actually drop some weight. He plays pretty upright and to me he moves a little stiffly. I’ve also never seen him play a single snap in man coverage, which is a bit of a concern. I think timed speed will be a big factor in where he gets picked — if he runs around 4.6 at his size, I think he is a legit top 30-40 pick. But if he’s more like 4.75-4.8, which I think is possible, he’s going to drop a bit. He might need to be more of a 3-4 guy at that point. 

[e16bball]

We talked a little about Chris Rumph the other day. Another ACC pass-rusher I like, probably more than Rumph, is Patrick Jones from Pitt. I really like what I see from Patrick Jones. He’s a very effective pass-rusher, and he’s disruptive against the run as well. 

It’s a serious longshot that he slides to the 3rd, but I’d pull the trigger with the SF pick if he did. A third DE will be able to get on the field a fair amount if he can play run and pass, as we’ve seen with Kerrigan, so I don’t feel too bad using a 3rd on an expected backup. Especially one that gives us legitimate depth at the position our defense is built around. 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

How do you build a winning culture without a QB? 

We’ve done it this year in large part to the hiring of Ron, the drafting of Chase & Alex being back and able to play.

[turtle28]

@e16bball Good point about Zaven Collins and that he doesn’t have top end speed/athleticism. 
 

I didn’t think about him being a better fit as a 3-4 OLB but, he probably would be.

[ripsean21]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

We talked a little about Chris Rumph the other day. Another ACC pass-rusher I like, probably more than Rumph, is Patrick Jones from Pitt. I really like what I see from Patrick Jones. He’s a very effective pass-rusher, and he’s disruptive against the run as well. 

It’s a serious longshot that he slides to the 3rd, but I’d pull the trigger with the SF pick if he did. A third DE will be able to get on the field a fair amount if he can play run and pass, as we’ve seen with Kerrigan, so I don’t feel too bad using a 3rd on an expected backup. Especially one that gives us legitimate depth at the position our defense is built around. 

We’re on the same page with this and your last post about Collins and OK. But I like Pitt and VT defenders. Always come out with solid fundamentals so they get pro coach wing and their skills progress because they have sneaky athletic ability.

[turtle28]

5 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

We’re on the same page with this and your last post about Collins and OK. But I like Pitt and VT defenders. Always come out with solid fundamentals so they get pro coach wing and their skills progress because they have sneaky athletic ability.

That’s definitely true, the fundamentals that are taught at those schools and programs like Alabama, Clemson, LSU, Ohio State etc make a huge difference when guys get to the pros. 

[e16bball]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

@e16bball Good point about Zaven Collins and that he doesn’t have top end speed/athleticism. 
 

I didn’t think about him being a better fit as a 3-4 OLB but, he probably would be.

I honestly could even see him as 3-4 ILB. Something like what Jon Bostic is supposed to be, a downhill run thumper with mostly zone coverage responsibilities who you don’t have to worry as much about keeping clean and his incredible instincts and physicality help him fill and stuff. Don’t make him run sideline to sideline, let him play forward more and operate in close quarters where his nose for the football will let him make plays.

I saw somebody compare him to Kyle Van Noy, and I can see that. But to me, I could also see some of the Jerod Mayo and Donta Hightower profiles in him. He’s got the kind of instincts that both of those guys had — not the speed of Mayo, nor the pure power/physicality of Hightower, but perhaps somewhere between the two on both?

[ripsean21]

12 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I honestly could even see him as 3-4 ILB. Something like what Jon Bostic is supposed to be, a downhill run thumper with mostly zone coverage responsibilities who you don’t have to worry as much about keeping clean and his incredible instincts and physicality help him fill and stuff. Don’t make him run sideline to sideline, let him play forward more and operate in close quarters where his nose for the football will let him make plays.

I saw somebody compare him to Kyle Van Noy, and I can see that. But to me, I could also see some of the Jerod Mayo and Donta Hightower profiles in him. He’s got the kind of instincts that both of those guys had — not the speed of Mayo, nor the pure power/physicality of Hightower, but perhaps somewhere between the two on both?

He reminds me of Hightower that’s why I am all over him I loved Hightower coming out similar game and instincts that will not just allow him to shine he and Cole and what would be a rotation between KPL and Landon I like those backers.

[e16bball]

20 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

He reminds me of Hightower that’s why I am all over him I loved Hightower coming out similar game and instincts that will not just allow him to shine he and Cole and what would be a rotation between KPL and Landon I like those backers.

So just to play devil’s advocate, do you think that’s what Ron is looking for? 

I like the idea of a true SLB like Collins, but looking at Ron’s past in Carolina, it seems like when he had built his dream LB corps, the least athletic guy was — Thomas Davis in his prime. You had the HOF sideline to sideline guy in Kuechly and the young LB/S tweener in Thompson, plus another converted college S in Davis (who admittedly bulked up a lot in the league). 

So my question is, where do you think we’re headed in terms of our staff’s ideal LB corps? If we could get Collins in the 2nd, that’s great value. But does he fit the vision? I’m always a helpless sucker for speed, so I’m curious to know what you and others envision for the LB corps moving forward.