offbyone Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 29 minutes ago, lavar703 said: Every QB in the draft is a big question mark. So what do you suggest we do? I mean, the window for this defensive line is not as big as fans like to think. They’re all going to get paid at some point. So you do what you have to to get your guy and hope they develop into a great QB. Not taking the chance because you’re scared of missing is just as bad as missing in my opinion. I suggest you take what comes your way. You don't force it. If it doesn't look like we can get a qb at our pick, you think hard about free agency. But you absolutely do not over draft a project qb. And that is the dictionary definition of Lance. Just imagine if we traded up for Haskins, how would you feel now? Haskins, in the end didn't cost us that much. We took a swing and missed. But if we traded up for him it would have been a long term disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 27 minutes ago, lavar703 said: Every QB in the draft is a big question mark. So what do you suggest we do? I mean, the window for this defensive line is not as big as fans like to think. They’re all going to get paid at some point. So you do what you have to to get your guy and hope they develop into a great QB. Not taking the chance because you’re scared of missing is just as bad as missing in my opinion. I agree with you on this. You have to be willing to swing big if you see The Guy™️. Nothing is more important. HOWEVER. I will say, you also have to be willing to admit that none of them are “your guy” if that’s true. The only thing worse than forcing a pick on a guy you’re lukewarm on just because he’s the best one left? Forcing a costly trade-up for a guy you’re lukewarm on just because he’s the best one in range. If you love him, go get him. If not, you have to come back and try again later. As we’ve seen, unless you’re the Cardinals, the bare minimum you’ll waste on a “wrong guy” is 2 seasons, and that’s if he’s abjectly awful like . Haskins. A mediocre guy will eat up 3-4 years of your franchise’s trajectory before you’re ready to move on. We can’t afford that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, e16bball said: I agree with you on this. You have to be willing to swing big if you see The Guy™️. Nothing is more important. HOWEVER. I will say, you also have to be willing to admit that none of them are “your guy” if that’s true. The only thing worse than forcing a pick on a guy you’re lukewarm on just because he’s the best one left? Forcing a costly trade-up for a guy you’re lukewarm on just because he’s the best one in range. If you love him, go get him. If not, you have to come back and try again later. As we’ve seen, unless you’re the Cardinals, the bare minimum you’ll waste on a “wrong guy” is 2 seasons, and that’s if he’s abjectly awful like . Haskins. A mediocre guy will eat up 3-4 years of your franchise’s trajectory before you’re ready to move on. We can’t afford that. I’m not pretending to know how they evaluate these guys though. And don’t take that the wrong way, I’m not saying you are or anyone else on here is. What I’m basically saying is they believe one of these guys can take them to where they want to go then do what you need to do to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 17 minutes ago, offbyone said: I suggest you take what comes your way. You don't force it. If it doesn't look like we can get a qb at our pick, you think hard about free agency. But you absolutely do not over draft a project qb. And that is the dictionary definition of Lance. Just imagine if we traded up for Haskins, how would you feel now? Haskins, in the end didn't cost us that much. We took a swing and missed. But if we traded up for him it would have been a long term disaster. Imagine if you’d traded up for Patrick Mahomes. Or Josh Allen. Or Justin Herbert. Or Lamar Jackson. Or Deshaun Watson. None of those guys was considered a sure thing either. Projects. Lots of teams didn’t believe in them enough to take them or move up for them It’s all a question of getting the right guy. Having the right evaluators to help choose him. Having the right coaching staff to develop him. Putting him in the right culture with a reasonable amount of talent around him. You can’t rush it. But you also have to be bold enough to strike when you have the chance. It’s the hardest balance to strike in perhaps all of sports. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, lavar703 said: I’m not pretending to know how they evaluate these guys though. And don’t take that the wrong way, I’m not saying you are or anyone else on here is. What I’m basically saying is they believe one of these guys can take them to where they want to go then do what you need to do to get him. Agree. We will never meet these prospects in person or get the chance to sit down with the people who have been around them. So we will never be able to evaluate their character, personality, intelligence, work ethic, mastery of concepts, leadership, and all those other intangibles that are probably the most important aspects of all when it comes to QB evaluation. All we can see is what they do on the field. We can kill them for taking Haskins all day long, but there was nothing in his college film that said he wasn’t capable of being an NFL pocket passer. The only way you could figured out that Haskins was destined to fail is to get inside his personality and learn about the immaturity and the lacking work ethic and the limited understanding of concepts and maybe the weak will. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir L Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Haskin was a 1 year starter who had elite talent around him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovfd55 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 11 hours ago, Woz said: If we were solely short a QB on offense, then maybe I could understand this. However, they're not just a quarterback away. Skipping out on yet another deep WR draft seems foolish to me. Also, you won't get Stafford for a first and a conditional. again I don't want to trade for a Qb it's just what I think the team will do.And to counter point you on if we was only short a QB on Offense I'd argue with a better QB we could legit be a 10+ win team right now and we'd still have some cap to add 2nd teir free agent wrs which norm go cheap despite them being guys like Marvin Jones or Golden Tate and a TE like Mo Allie Cox and still have a 2nd round pick as well to possibley add a WR that falls. All depends on if they think a window to compete is open now,which I think the coaches think we have the defense to compete they just need the offense not to be the 30th ranked offense in the league for season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 5 hours ago, Vladimir L said: Haskin was a 1 year starter who had elite talent around him But didn’t you just advocate for drafting Mac Jones in another thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 1 hour ago, ovfd55 said: again I don't want to trade for a Qb it's just what I think the team will do.And to counter point you on if we was only short a QB on Offense I'd argue with a better QB we could legit be a 10+ win team right now and we'd still have some cap to add 2nd teir free agent wrs which norm go cheap despite them being guys like Marvin Jones or Golden Tate and a TE like Mo Allie Cox and still have a 2nd round pick as well to possibley add a WR that falls. All depends on if they think a window to compete is open now,which I think the coaches think we have the defense to compete they just need the offense not to be the 30th ranked offense in the league for season. Keep in mind the last time the front office decided they needed to trade for a QB who was going to give the team a chance to compete now, they traded for Alex Smith. In retrospect, Smith was cheap (Kendall Fuller + 3rd) because Kansas City already had their QB of the future in house (we didn't yet know that Pat Mahomes would become PAT MAHOMES). Detroit, on the other hand, has Chase Daniel, David Blough, and Jordan Ta'amu (on the practice squad). As heavy a weight as Stafford is around their cap, the Option B choices are no real choices at all. So, the price is going to be somewhat higher from a draft/player compensation perspective to pry him away from Detroit. I would expect the first round pick as a minimum to do so (sure we could send Haskins with the pick, but that's going to be worth basically a hill of beans at this point). What would that net Washington? The good news is that the contract for Stafford actually becomes quite reasonable from a cap perspective. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/matthew-stafford-6078/ ... if you look at the columns for "Signing" and "Restructure," those should stay with Detroit. This means Stafford's 2021 and 2022 cap numbers would be reflected by the "Yearly Cash" columns: $20M in 2021 and $23M in 2022. The bad news is that you get Stafford for just two years and then have to decide what to do afterwards. Stafford has not shown himself to take discounts so expect to pay top-of-the-market rates to keep him, even if he would be turning 35. So, for the team to do this (because as you say, this is not what you want), they would have to trade away a top pick for a two year rental. Do you think they would likely give away a chance at say a Kyle Pitts, Devonta Smith, Jaylen Waddle, Christian Darrisaw, or Alex Leatherwood for that rental? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbaugh21 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 (edited) If we lose next week, I’m looking at Kyle Pitts and Devonta Smith. If we win I’m looking at Brevin Jordan and Jaylen Waddle. I’m also completely okay with us going LT. I just don’t scout those positions too heavily so I can’t say who we should get outside of Sewell. Side note: if we go QB, I like Kyle Trask or Trey Lance. Anyone but Fields. Edited December 28, 2020 by Umbaugh21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovfd55 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 27 minutes ago, Woz said: Keep in mind the last time the front office decided they needed to trade for a QB who was going to give the team a chance to compete now, they traded for Alex Smith. In retrospect, Smith was cheap (Kendall Fuller + 3rd) because Kansas City already had their QB of the future in house (we didn't yet know that Pat Mahomes would become PAT MAHOMES). Detroit, on the other hand, has Chase Daniel, David Blough, and Jordan Ta'amu (on the practice squad). As heavy a weight as Stafford is around their cap, the Option B choices are no real choices at all. So, the price is going to be somewhat higher from a draft/player compensation perspective to pry him away from Detroit. I would expect the first round pick as a minimum to do so (sure we could send Haskins with the pick, but that's going to be worth basically a hill of beans at this point). What would that net Washington? The good news is that the contract for Stafford actually becomes quite reasonable from a cap perspective. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/matthew-stafford-6078/ ... if you look at the columns for "Signing" and "Restructure," those should stay with Detroit. This means Stafford's 2021 and 2022 cap numbers would be reflected by the "Yearly Cash" columns: $20M in 2021 and $23M in 2022. The bad news is that you get Stafford for just two years and then have to decide what to do afterwards. Stafford has not shown himself to take discounts so expect to pay top-of-the-market rates to keep him, even if he would be turning 35. So, for the team to do this (because as you say, this is not what you want), they would have to trade away a top pick for a two year rental. Do you think they would likely give away a chance at say a Kyle Pitts, Devonta Smith, Jaylen Waddle, Christian Darrisaw, or Alex Leatherwood for that rental? I Do with our Coaching staff,who is also in charge of picking the GM it seems.If you told me Kyle Smith was the GM I don't think we'd trade the pick. I don't see us going into next year with Alex Smith and Kyle Allen coming off a broken Leg as our 2 vet QBs it might not be a trade it could be something like Tyrod Taylor,Ryan Fitzpatrick,or Cam Newton. I just don't see us trading up for a QB or selecting the 4-6th best in the 1st when are a win from playoffs and coaches have to think we will be in it again next year and they have complete control,they don't look 5-10 years down the road like a gm should they want to win now if that is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 13 hours ago, e16bball said: Imagine if you’d traded up for Patrick Mahomes. Or Josh Allen. Or Justin Herbert. Or Lamar Jackson. Or Deshaun Watson. None of those guys was considered a sure thing either. Projects. Lots of teams didn’t believe in them enough to take them or move up for them It’s all a question of getting the right guy. Having the right evaluators to help choose him. Having the right coaching staff to develop him. Putting him in the right culture with a reasonable amount of talent around him. You can’t rush it. But you also have to be bold enough to strike when you have the chance. It’s the hardest balance to strike in perhaps all of sports. I agree with all this, but trading up adds a lot of risk to the equation. The odds of you trading up and getting Mahomes are not high. It is more likely you trade up like the bears in 2017 and end up with a qb like Trubisky. Now if the bears traded down and picked Trubisky in the middle of the first round it wouldn't be viewed as a wholesale disaster. But losing all the additional draft capital really hurts when he doesn't turn into a star. Most 1st round qbs fail. As you say you have to be bold and be willing to take a chance in order to get lucky. But in this draft you have a host of project qbs who all have question marks next to their names. I am happy to take a chance on one if the organization likes him, I just don't want to trade up to do it. Frankly I would be more open to trading down 5 spots and getting another second and if Trask or Lance falls ****** him at pick #27. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 2 hours ago, e16bball said: But didn’t you just advocate for drafting Mac Jones in another thread? Mac Jones started games for Tua in 2019 & played in the bowl game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovfd55 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 8 minutes ago, ovfd55 said: That’s seriously sad!!! That’s why we need to not bring in some old friend this offseason let Kyle go get his guy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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