From "The Guy of the Guy"

[TitanSS]

1 minute ago, titans0021 said:

Honestly, I’m most blown away by the idea that we should combine the two. Even if you’re in love with Henry and will pay him anything, I just can’t imagine a worse fit for him to play with than Brady.

Right? Combine the one RB in the NFL who comes off the field on passing downs with the QB that throws to RBs more than anyone?

[ttitansfan4life]

Funny thing is there’s only like a select few that want Brady.... I am certainly not one of them.

[deeluxx3]

26 minutes ago, titans0021 said:

Patriots scored more than 24 once in their last nine games.

Tannehill took over one of the lowest scoring offense in football through a month and a half and averaged almost 28 ppg en route to the AFC championship.

Only one of them elevated the players around him last year, and it wasn’t the one that limped across the finish line with a historically great defense.

We have much different definitions of 'elevating the level of play' of those around them. Tanny was awesome this year...historically good both in general and for our team...but to think he's the type of guy to transcend mediocre surround talent and improving their level of play to a high level is asinine.

Brady is coming off his worst year, sure. But with the worst supporting cast of maybe his career, he still goes for 4k and 24 TDs. NE couldn't run the ball and had no receiver who could make a consistent impact outside the numbers. I can't help but think that Brady, surrounded by AJ, Corey, Smith, Hump and even Firkser, would be able to still keep our offense chugging along if/when Henry is neutralized.

 

For the right price, I'd love to have Tanny back next year. But the idea that Brady would hurt this team stems from a sentiment other than his latest performance, if you ask me

 

 

edit -- and to make it clear, I'm not pounding the table for Brady. I'd be excited and intrigued if we got him, but don't necessarily think he's 'right' for the team at this moment. That's JRob's decision to make. People in this forum tend to paint people on one end of the spectrum or the other, when there's a lot of grey area in between

Edited January 22, 2020 by deeluxx3
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[TitanSS]

The sentiment that Brady is a bad fit comes from the idea that he's 42 and looked worse than Ryan Tannehill. Couldn't score on our DBs in the playoffs.

I know his weapons aren't the best but neither was our defense. No pass rush and meh corners and he couldn't score.

Since when has Brady ever needed weapons? He's always taken castaways and made them into weapons. Last year he didn't because he's aging. And next year he'll only be another year older.

It's exciting because it's Brady and we'd finally be talked about by the media, but ultimately sounds like an awful decision for a 1-2 year rental.

[ttitansfan4life]

1 minute ago, TitanSS said:

The sentiment that Brady is a bad fit comes from the idea that he's 42 and looked worse than Ryan Tannehill. Couldn't score on our DBs in the playoffs.

I know his weapons aren't the best but neither was our defense. No pass rush and meh corners and he couldn't score.

Since when has Brady ever needed weapons? He's always taken castaways and made them into weapons. Last year he didn't because he's aging. And next year he'll only be another year older.

It's exciting because it's Brady and we'd finally be talked about by the media, but ultimately sounds like an awful decision for a 1-2 year rental.

Yep and it pretty much guarantees we’ll be drafting a QB in the first 3 rounds.

[-Hope-]

18 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

The sentiment that Brady is a bad fit comes from the idea that he's 42 and looked worse than Ryan Tannehill. Couldn't score on our DBs in the playoffs.

I know his weapons aren't the best but neither was our defense. No pass rush and meh corners and he couldn't score.

Since when has Brady ever needed weapons? He's always taken castaways and made them into weapons. Last year he didn't because he's aging. And next year he'll only be another year older.

It's exciting because it's Brady and we'd finally be talked about by the media, but ultimately sounds like an awful decision for a 1-2 year rental.

also, with the offense we run, we need a guy who has a pretty good arm and can work the intermediate and deep game consistently. at this point in brady’s career i don’t see it.

[titans0021]

2 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

also, with the offense we run, we need a guy who has a pretty good arm and can work the intermediate and deep game consistently. at this point in brady’s career i don’t see it.

 Oh yeah, with Brady, we’re looking at a complete overhaul of our offensive system. For an aging QB that’s on a noticeable decline. He’s not running a PA heavy offense built around intermediate and deep passing with zone read looks and a bunch of plays designed to move the pocket.

[KingTitan]

kMy official stance with Brady is I don't care. 
Same with Tanny. 

With the style of offense we plan to play and my gut saying Henry will be here no matter what, I think the QB  Robinson and Vrabel picks will get the job done. 

If it's Brady, cool. National exposure and he couldn't be any worst that Marcus was this year. 
If it's Tannehill, cool. Hopefully at least sustain what he was doing and at worst he'll be Miami Tannehill and that should be good enough for at least 10 wins. 
If it's not Tanny or Brady, then there are 2-3 realistic options that can lead this team at a respectable level. (Bridgewater, Rivers, hell even Winston if he is controlled in this offense.)

Looked at the highlights of Brady this year and it was A LOT of play action. I'd find it hard to see him not do well with Humph, Davis and Brown. 
I do agree that if Brady is the target, I wouldn't really bring back Henry. Find a more pass friendly lead back. 

Two years of average to above average Brady could still be Super Bowl worthy. And i like the idea of drafting a young guy to mold. 

I am real hesitant to invest in Tanny for 4-5 years. 

[ragevsuall17]

There's obviously some misconceptions about who Brady has been.  To think he can't win in an offense geared towards Henry is baseless... won a SB last year with the 5th ranked rushing offense... and won a SB with Blount as his leading rusher (on the 7th ranked rushing offense) in 2016. 

This article was during their SB run last year:

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/12/26/tom-brady-new-engand-patriots-offense-rookie-quarterbacks-mayfield-rosen-darnold-jackson-allen 

 

'Since their Week 11 bye, the Patriots’ two-back snaps have risen to near-Niner levels—39%. This smashmouth approach may have been the plan all along. In spring, New England spent its first-round draft picks on run-game helpers from Georgia: offensive lineman Isaiah Wynn and tailback Sony Michel. Wynn wound up missing the season with a torn Achilles, but Michel has been exactly what they’d hoped: a strong, patient, professional runner. He consistently executes plays as they’re designed, leaving no yards on the field and, often, gaining a few extra. He is ideal for the “21” sets that now define New England’s offense.

Of course, in today’s NFL, unless your ground game is augmented by a uniquely mobile QB like a Lamar Jackson or a Russell Wilson, where opponents must defend you differently, a run-first offense is only as good as the passing game you build off of it. This is where the Patriots are set up to flourish. They have one of the NFL’s most complete play-action attacks. Their most reliable pass play is bang-play-action, where a guard pull-blocks (like on a “power” run) and a tightly aligned receiver—Chris Hogan, Julian Edelman or, more likely Rob Gronkowski—runs a skinny post behind the reacting linebackers. In recent weeks the Patriots, who always evolve over the course of the season, have added wrinkles to their two-back play-action looks.

...

Brady, the ultimate field general, is adept at checking in and out of these looks, and the more opponents fear New England’s ground game, the more potent those checks become. We have been reminded of this time and again, including last postseason, which the Patriots entered looking similar to the smashmouth team we’re seeing now, only to feature an electrifying spread passing game in the divisional round against Tennessee. After that, they featured a vertical downfield passing game in the AFC championship game against Jacksonville and Super Bowl against Philly.

That team, however, had Brandin Cooks. With Josh Gordon suspended, this New England offense has no bona fide perimeter weapon. How Brady and the Patriots perform this January will depend on how the rushing attack performs."

[ragevsuall17]

6 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

My official stance with Brady is I don't care. 
Same with Tanny. 

That's officially my stance as well.   

I'm not pro/anti Tanny, Brady, Rivers, etc.  While I believe Tanny is our best option going forward, I don't think he's dramatically better than the other FA options, and not worth a substantially richer contract.  But I also think our offense has a better chance to continue its success with Henry and a one of those other "top" FA QB options than we are with Tanny without Henry.  Tanny is a good game manager, but not someone who's going to consistently win when he needs to be the main catalyst.

Henry, Brown, Davis, Smith, Humphries are not a group to sneeze at. This would be a great set of tools for any of those QBs available.  Another year of continuity on the OL is also going to be huge.  

[KingTitan]

1 minute ago, ragevsuall17 said:

That's officially my stance as well.   

I'm not pro/anti Tanny, Brady, Rivers, etc.  While I believe Tanny is our best option going forward, I don't think he's dramatically better than the other FA options, and not worth a substantially richer contract.  But I also think our offense has a better chance to continue its success with Henry and a one of those other "top" FA QB options than we are with Tanny without Henry.  Tanny is a good game manager, but not someone who's going to consistently win when he needs to be the main catalyst.

Henry, Brown, Davis, Smith, Humphries are not a group to sneeze at. This would be a great set of tools for any of those QBs available.  Another year of continuity on the OL is also going to be huge.  

I agree basically any QB in FA will not be "THE MAN."  Until we have a QB that is just that, he is replaceable. 
Mahomes is THE MAN. You build around him and pay him whatever and let others come and go. 

Since Tannehill isn't THE MAN at QB, get him at the price you want, if not get the next one at the price you want to go with your dominating RB/Line. 

If we all are honest, take a step back and look, Tanny wasn't doing things at a QB we couldn't ask another confident, strong armed, mobile guy to do. I truly believe that.  
Make quick reads off play action, boot action, throw down field on shot plays and be a respected leader. Not that I want him, but Fitzpatrick could do that effectively. 

The underlying issue in all this is that our passing offense need to mature and Art Smith needs to lead that. Opposing teams said it, our offense isn't complex. There aren't a lot of secrets or misdirection to it. 

Zone runs, boot, play action 80-90% of the time. 

Not saying just anyone can do that, because we saw Marcuse struggle too, but I think we could get any of those mid-level FA's to do the job. Shoot, Dalton could do it I feel pretty effectively. 

[titans0021]

Man, we’re either vastly underrating Tannehill or Arthur Smith is apparently a generational kind of offensive mind if we can plug almost any QB into his system and replace the production of someone that led the entire league in rating and YPA while going 9-4.

[TitanRedd]

1 hour ago, TitanSS said:

The sentiment that Brady is a bad fit comes from the idea that he's 42 and looked worse than Ryan Tannehill. Couldn't score on our DBs in the playoffs.

I know his weapons aren't the best but neither was our defense. No pass rush and meh corners and he couldn't score.

Since when has Brady ever needed weapons? He's always taken castaways and made them into weapons. Last year he didn't because he's aging. And next year he'll only be another year older.

It's exciting because it's Brady and we'd finally be talked about by the media, but ultimately sounds like an awful decision for a 1-2 year rental.

That’s when Brady was a elite QB he didn’t need weapons. Again he’s not elite but he still better than Tannehill, Tannehill is good but he’s only good as his supporting cast, Tannehill can’t carry bums like Brady can 

[titans0021]

At this point, I’m convinced that the gameplans in the playoff (which is in no way a sustainable offense for a full season) have somehow made people forget just how good Tannehill was this year. Every classic stat and advanced metric supports that.

[TitanRedd]

4 minutes ago, titans0021 said:

At this point, I’m convinced that the gameplans in the playoff (which is in no way a sustainable offense for a full season) have somehow made people forget just how good Tannehill was this year. Every classic stat and advanced metric supports that.

It’s not that it’s y’all not looking at the big picture here. The chiefs game pretty much showed the the trust the coaching staff has in Tannehill, you have a QB with all da weapons around him & you still didn’t put the ball in his hands & let him win the game. Think about it, sure brady isn’t elite we know he’s not the Tom Brady of old but he had a far less talented supporting cast still threw over 4k yards & took some bums to the playoffs, Tannehill can’t do that it’s a reason Miami traded him. Give Tom Brady what Tannehill has to work with & see how easier life gets for Derick Henry how defenses think twice about loading the box, watch how we get our moneys worth in a slot WR we gave 36 mill, watch AJ become one of the next best WR’s watch we finally get some that says 1st round talent out of Corey Davis & watch Jonnu smith arrive