2021 NBA Draft Thread

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, FinneasGage said:

talking about the way he played. not denying he's always been dry. difference between him and kuminga is that kawhi played the right way and only had reports about a ridiculous work ethic 

There were reports that he had a great work ethic? He really didn't improve between his freshman and sophomore seasons in college. 

Via Sam Vecenie of the Athletic who was at the G-League Bubble talking to NBA guys:

Quote

To top that off, all of the reports I’ve gotten about Kuminga’s work ethic have been stellar. One source told me Kuminga was doing three-a-day workouts to prepare for the G League bubble out in the Bay Area, working with personal trainers as well as the ones provided by the G League. He takes his career seriously and wants to be great.

Quote

Still, at the very least, it’s a projectable shot now for an 18-year-old who is clearly a hard worker. Most evaluators I’ve spoken to have real confidence in Kuminga being a shooter at some point sooner rather than later. Overall, the feedback I received from scouts after the game was that Kuminga should probably be considered in the top tier of prospects along with Cunningham, Mobley and Suggs. One evaluator put him into context as a top-four pick.

 

[NYRaider]

Quote

“The sky is the limit for them,” Abdur-Rahim told Michael Scotto of HoopsHype. “Their intangibles, their intelligence, their work ethic. We saw in them this year their willingness to compete and take challenges. Both are tremendous young men. I think whatever organizations get them are getting top-flight people. I’m really high on them and what the future looks like for them.”

On Green and Kuminga

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, FinneasGage said:

the way he plays most of the time. the way he talks about basketball and himself. his body language. he might be good. but just not a dude i'd trust to take around that #5 area in this group. i think he's likely to be a net negative on the court 

He played 13 games in a bubble setting on a make shift roster mainly consisting of other 18 year olds fresh out of HS against NBA level players. 

I think when evaluating guys you have to look at the entire picture. We heard Paul George complain about how difficult it was for his mental health being in the bubble. LaMelo Ball said the toughest part of his rookie season was dealing with covid while playing. He was one of the first players in the NBA's G-League experiment and they had to pivot the entire league due to covid. The original plan was for the team to be based out of the Bay Area and play some games against G-League teams and others against European teams, etc in exhibitions. 

Instead they shifted to a super short season in a bubble setting in Orlando and played exclusively against G-League teams. 52% of the players in the NBA this season spent time in the G-League at one point or another. So he was playing against NBA level talent, a lot of whom have played in the league already, on teams that had way more structure. The Ignite Team was a make shift roster of Green, Kuminga, a few other fringe NBA level HS kids, and washed up pros like Jarrett Jack, Amir Johnson, and Bobby Brown. 

Other then Green/Kuminga, the other 4 kids who played in the G-League all struggled and will be 2nd round picks/undrafted. I mean look at Darius Bazley, he originally was going to play in the G-League then backed out because, and I quote, "“If you play well, it’s expected. If you don’t play well, you’re not NBA-ready. That’s what they’ll say. For me, working out and preparing is the best route,” Bazley said.

Ziarie Williams is similar in ways to Kuminga. He came in very highly touted but struggled as a freshman and has fallen out of top 10 contention. But I think it's also important to note that while he did struggle he was also playing at Stanford which was facing some of the toughest quarantine restrictions in the country. He was living in a hotel and two of his close family members died during the season. 

[NYRaider]

Quote

Kuminga’s size, athleticism and two-way potential put him in the discussion to be the overall No. 1 pick and he opened the G League season living up to that status before an injury cut short his season after his play leveled off while Green’s went the other way. Background checks that dive into Kuminga’s work ethic and character are likely to come back with nothing but positive results. Recent reports of Kuminga showing a more refined set of shot mechanics could allay doubts about his future as a 3-point shooter.

Quote

Here’s what The Athletic’s Sam Vecenie wrote in mid-February: “With apologies to Green, all of the intel out of the Ignite team camp has been that Kuminga has looked like the best prospect. He looked the best in their scrimmages and in practices in Walnut Creek. And with legitimate NBA size at about 6-foot-7 with a 7-foot-plus wingspan and a terrific frame, he looks to have the most upside for what the NBA is looking for as a big wing initiator.”

 

[NYRaider]

@FinneasGage

Quote

He was the youngest player in the league under trying circumstances in the pandemic bubble and playing against stronger G League lineups than in typical years with many teams not sending their affiliates to play, concentrating talent on those that remained.

So everyone who was around Kuminga in the bubble praised his work ethic but he's not a dog because he struggled while playing hurt?

[catcheryea]

1 hour ago, FinneasGage said:

magic twitter wants him at 5 now and i'm just ******* losing my mind 

i'm a uconn fan and i liked bouknight as a uconn player but his last 2 games of the season were not inspiring to say the least. literally the only positive part of the tournament game against maryland is that he played all 40 minutes

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, catcheryea said:

i'm a uconn fan and i liked bouknight as a uconn player but his last 2 games of the season were not inspiring to say the least. literally the only positive part of the tournament game against maryland is that he played all 40 minutes

He's reportedly climbing up teams big boards after his workouts. I think this draft is going to be nuts after the top 5-6 guys there are so many wild cards with guys like Davion Mitchell, Keon Johnson, James Bouknight, Jalen Johnson, Ziarie Williams, Franz Wagner, and Josh Giddey. I've seen all of those guys mocked in the top 10 by some and outside the lottery by others. 

[Kirill]

8 minutes ago, catcheryea said:

i'm a uconn fan and i liked bouknight as a uconn player but his last 2 games of the season were not inspiring to say the least. literally the only positive part of the tournament game against maryland is that he played all 40 minutes

yeah IDK how any of these teams in the top 10 could justify taking him over davion mitchell tbh. yeah mitchell is 22 years old and like 6'1 but I think people obsess over age and measurables too much. With mitchell you're getting a proven leader and plus defender and efficent offensive player.

I think I want Mitchell for OKC at pick 6. We go ahead and secure our PG next to Shai. The two even look like they could be brothers. Him being an older prospect isn't bad in this case just matches him up on the timeline with Shai and Dort. Then we go and get Cameron Thomas at pick 16 to be our Buddy Hield sniper off the bench then we just draft the BPA bigmen with pick 18 and our two early 2nd round picks.

[NYRaider]

7 minutes ago, Kirill said:

yeah IDK how any of these teams in the top 10 could justify taking him over davion mitchell tbh. yeah mitchell is 22 years old and like 6'1 but I think people obsess over age and measurables too much. With mitchell you're getting a proven leader and plus defender and efficent offensive player.

I think I want Mitchell for OKC at pick 6. We go ahead and secure our PG next to Shai. The two even look like they could be brothers. Him being an older prospect isn't bad in this case just matches him up on the timeline with Shai and Dort. Then we go and get Cameron Thomas at pick 16 to be our Buddy Hield sniper off the bench then we just draft the BPA bigmen with pick 18 and our two early 2nd round picks.

He'll be a 23 year old rookie and is older than Collin Sexton, Trae Young, and Luka Doncic. The reason people are concerned with age is because it's very telling when a prospect struggles early in their college career and then have one great year when they're literally way older than everyone they're playing against. With Mitchell the biggest concern is if his 3 point shooting will translate or not. He struggled as a shooter throughout his college career but shot 44% this season, which is impressive on paper, but to me looks like a flash in the pan.

He had 14 games where he hit 2+ 3's at a 50%+ clip, had 12 games where he missed 3+ 3PA and shot the 3 ball at a 25% clip or below, and made 0-1 3's in 15/30 games. His FT shooting numbers actually got worse every season % wise and how well a guy shoots FT is typically a pretty solid indicator of what kind of shooter they'll be in the league, Mitchell was a 65% FT shooter over his college career. 

Another huge concern with him is that he really never gets to the line, like he literally has one of the worst FTA rates of any top prospect in the history of the NBA draft. Defensively I think he'll be solid guarding 1's but his lack of size/length limits who he'll be able to guard in the league. 

If he is taken in the lottery he'll be only the 4th upper class man PG drafted highly joining Elfrid Payton and Kris Dunn. Two guys that like Mitchell, struggled early in their careers, then made leaps late in their career. Both of those guys like Mitchell were below average 3 point/FT shooters over their careers. They were also praised for their defense and athleticism...

[11sanchez11]

1 hour ago, FinneasGage said:

being a wet dud doesn't necessarily mean just being dry. dudes can be dry and you can still see them as being dogs or being elite workers. it's an element of tho yeah. keon johnson is a dry dude and i like him a lot. 

This is a weird post to come into the thread on lol

[NYRaider]

One thing you have to respect about Kuminga is unlike Bazley, he wasn't afraid to play against grown men. @Kirill

[Kirill]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

He'll be a 23 year old rookie and is older than Collin Sexton, Trae Young, and Luka Doncic. The reason people are concerned with age is because it's very telling when a prospect struggles early in their college career and then have one great year when they're literally way older than everyone they're playing against. With Mitchell the biggest concern is if his 3 point shooting will translate or not. He struggled as a shooter throughout his college career but shot 44% this season, which is impressive on paper, but to me looks like a flash in the pan.

He had 14 games where he hit 2+ 3's at a 50%+ clip, had 12 games where he missed 3+ 3PA and shot the 3 ball at a 25% clip or below, and made 0-1 3's in 15/30 games. His FT shooting numbers actually got worse every season % wise and how well a guy shoots FT is typically a pretty solid indicator of what kind of shooter they'll be in the league, Mitchell was a 65% FT shooter over his college career. 

Another huge concern with him is that he really never gets to the line, like he literally has one of the worst FTA rates of any top prospect in the history of the NBA draft. Defensively I think he'll be solid guarding 1's but his lack of size/length limits who he'll be able to guard in the league. 

If he is taken in the lottery he'll be only the 4th upper class man PG drafted highly joining Elfrid Payton and Kris Dunn. Two guys that like Mitchell, struggled early in their careers, then made leaps late in their career. Both of those guys like Mitchell were below average 3 point/FT shooters over their careers. They were also praised for their defense and athleticism...

There's just not many other options. Mitchell, Shai, Dort are all good defenders. He seems like a great leader. Just won the national championship. We don't have any good PG's. Maybe his ceiling isn't as high as some of these younger kids but most of them won't end up as good as him anyways.

Otherwise I'd try and trade the pick for Ben Simmons. Bazley, Kemba and the 6th pick then they can draft Kuminga if they want.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Kirill

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, Kirill said:

There's just not many other options. Mitchell, Shai, Dort are all good defenders. He seems like a great leader. Just won the national championship. We don't have any good PG's. Maybe his ceiling isn't as high as some of these younger kids but most of them won't end up as good as him anyways.

Otherwise I'd try and trade the pick for Ben Simmons. Bazley, Kemba and the 6th pick then they can draft Kuminga if they want.

Mitchell will be a good defender guarding PG's, I think his lack of length and size will give him some issues switching onto bigger wings. And with that trio SGA/Dort are both good defenders, but Dort is only 6'3" 210 and SGA is 6'5" 180, I know they both have great length but they're pretty small players. So on a nightly basis you'd be asking either Dort who's 6'3 to defend opposing 3's or SGA who's 180 pounds to do it. I also kind of question the fit because Dort is a meh shooter and I don't think Mitchell's 3 point shooting will translate that well to the next level. 

His ceiling isn't as high not based on his age alone, it's also because he's an extremely streaky shooter, small for the position in the modern NBA, and as I highlighted above the only other two lottery pick PG's who were upper class men in recent draft history are Kris Dunn and Elfrid Payton. Two guys who have a lot of similarities to Mitchell and both of those guys have been terrible in the league. 

When you look at Kris Dunn's career trajectory it's eerily similar to Mitchells.  He was a role player that struggled his first two years in college then broke out in years 3/4. Mitchell finished his career averaging 9.0 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 3.6 apg on 46% FG, 37% 3FG, 65% FT and a 19% turnover rate. Kris Dunn finished his career averaging 12.8 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 5.8 apg on 45% FG, 35% 3FG, 69% FT and a 21% turnover rate. 

[NYRaider]

When you look at Davion Mitchell's shooting numbers over his 94 game career:

Games with 0 made 3's: 34

Games with 3+ 3PA + Below a 30% clip: 30

Games with 2+ 3PM + Over a 40% clip: 25

[NYRaider]

For me personally, @Kirill I think Scottie is a much better fit then Davion. Higher upside, way more defensive versatility, and can play with the ball in his hands.