2021 NBA Draft Thread

[NYRaider]

6 minutes ago, Kirill said:

Whenever we took Westbrook 3rd overall he was like the 8th or 9th consensus best player but Presti said he after he met with Westbrook he could feel the future regret if he passed on this kid. 
same situation here with Bouknight. He’s got the name, he’s got the look, he’s got the swag, watch an interview of his and you can tell hes not still trying to figure out how to be a man like Kuminga or Josh or some of these other little kids

When you took Westbrook 4th overall it was a completely different situation. Westbrook was raw but he was like in the top 99th percentile in terms of athleticism and made huge strides between his freshman and sophomore seasons. He was raw but from a physical tools stand point the only other guards who were comparable to Westbrook have been guys like Rose, Wall, Morant, etc. 

Westbrook was considered an elite defender who was a jumper away from being a force. 

The name, the look, the swag mean absolutely nothing. The Westbrook pick brings up a good point, Eric Gordon at the time was the guy with the look, the swag, the name, and big time scoring production. How well did their NBA careers pan out in comparison? 

[Kirill]

15 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

When you took Westbrook 4th overall it was a completely different situation. Westbrook was raw but he was like in the top 99th percentile in terms of athleticism and made huge strides between his freshman and sophomore seasons. He was raw but from a physical tools stand point the only other guards who were comparable to Westbrook have been guys like Rose, Wall, Morant, etc. 

Westbrook was considered an elite defender who was a jumper away from being a force. 

The name, the look, the swag mean absolutely nothing. The Westbrook pick brings up a good point, Eric Gordon at the time was the guy with the look, the swag, the name, and big time scoring production. How well did their NBA careers pan out in comparison? 

You’re right but it’s not an exact science. Westbrook is an elite athlete but still not the most skilled and all of his teammates keep requesting trades.

Watching him sometimes is like watching a toy soldier try to come to life. Bouknight is one of these new age combo guards that is a threat to score from every position. His last season as the #1 option prepared him to step in and do the same in the NBA and get those opportunities with the basketball that Kuminga and these other kids won’t get because they’ll be too busy warming up the bench  because they lack skill. Potential is the biggest hoax there is. You either got it or you don’t.

[TheRealMcCoy]

I don't see how people think Jalen Green > him.

Green is gonna be fun offensively, but he'll be food on defense and needs to improve his handle quite a bit.

[Texansfan713]

Green wont be a bad defender in the league.  Cade shot 40 percent from the college 3 point line.  Green shot 36 percent from the NBA three point line.  Green improved his jump shot from high school.  Cade the better player dont get me wrong but Green's upside is tremendous. 

[NYRaider]

20 minutes ago, Kirill said:

College 3pt% isn’t the best predictor of NBA 3pt%. Volume of attempts and FT% is a better predictor which he has working in his favor. Last year he was also battling thru an elbow injury which is obvious because he shot 34% from 3 as a freshman. Plus he was hitting every shot throughout the draft workouts which brought his stock up to pick 6.

the kid is obviously a great shooter just had a few games where his shot wasn’t right but he was hurt. You’re not great at shooting off the dribble and that bad off of c&s it’s just a small sample size 

Over a two year sample size for Bouknight...

Catch and shoot: 23/73 (31%)

Mid-range jumpers: 8/39 (20%)

Jumpers off the bounce: 38/121 (31%) 

Three point shots: 47/147 (32%) 

Assist/TO ratio (Half Court): 0.6 

Assist/TO ratio (Transition): 0.9

Isolation numbers: 47 isolation attempts, passed 2 times during these situations 

That data to me doesn't indicate that he's a "sniper" he was inefficient shooting jumpers across the board over a 2 year sample size while also having a negative assist/to ratio. A lot of guys can look amazing shoot wide open shots in an empty gym, that means absolutely nothing. To call him a sniper or a great shooter when the numbers over a two year period say otherwise is just delusional, unless you think one workout he hit a ton of 3's is more valuable then film. 

I think Bouknight has some potential but he's definitely not even close to the 6th best prospect in this class. You're looking at a guy who has struggled to shoot from 3, struggled to shoot off the bounce, average shooting the 3, has a negative assist/to ratio, and only passed the ball 2 times in 47 isolation situations. 

[Kirill]

Just now, NYRaider said:

Over a two year sample size for Bouknight...

Catch and shoot: 23/73 (31%)

Mid-range jumpers: 8/39 (20%)

Jumpers off the bounce: 38/121 (31%) 

Three point shots: 47/147 (32%) 

Assist/TO ratio (Half Court): 0.6 

Assist/TO ratio (Transition): 0.9

Isolation numbers: 47 isolation attempts, passed 2 times during these situations 

That data to me doesn't indicate that he's a "sniper" he was inefficient shooting jumpers across the board over a 2 year sample size while also having a negative assist/to ratio. A lot of guys can look amazing shoot wide open shots in an empty gym, that means absolutely nothing. To call him a sniper or a great shooter when the numbers over a two year period say otherwise is just delusional, unless you think one workout he hit a ton of 3's is more valuable then film. 

I think Bouknight has some potential but he's definitely not even close to the 6th best prospect in this class. You're looking at a guy who has struggled to shoot from 3, struggled to shoot off the bounce, average shooting the 3, has a negative assist/to ratio, and only passed the ball 2 times in 47 isolation situations. 

Watch his draft workouts where he shot the lid off the rim. Skill isn’t quantifiable like that. The kids got the juice man. And he didn’t run from being the #1 option like your guy Jonathan Kuminga.

[NYRaider]

55 minutes ago, Kirill said:

the kid is obviously a great shooter just had a few games where his shot wasn’t right but he was hurt. You’re not great at shooting off the dribble and that bad off of c&s it’s just a small sample size 

He shot 20% on mid-range jumpers, 31% in C&S situations, 32% from 3, and 31% in shots off the dribble over a 2 year sample size and he's obviously a great shooter???

[NYRaider]

Just now, Kirill said:

Watch his draft workouts where he shot the lid off the rim. Skill isn’t quantifiable like that. The kids got the juice man. And he didn’t run from being the #1 option like your guy Jonathan Kuminga.

We haven't seen the juice from him in the games when it actually matters. He wasn't even the 1st option offensively for a UConn team that missed the tournament as a freshman and when he was the 1st option, UConn went 19-12 and got bounced in the 1st round. You really in your heart believe that Bouknight going to UConn and playing against mediocre competition in the AAC and Big East was a more manly decision then Kuminga's decision to reclassify a year early and play against grown men in the G-League? lol

Yeah because workouts are definitely more valuable than game film. That's why Wiseman's workout shooting, handle, and finishing instantly transferred to the league. 

 

[Kirill]

3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

We haven't seen the juice from him in the games when it actually matters. He wasn't even the 1st option offensively for a UConn team that missed the tournament as a freshman and when he was the 1st option, UConn went 19-12 and got bounced in the 1st round. You really in your heart believe that Bouknight going to UConn and playing against mediocre competition in the AAC and Big East was a more manly decision then Kuminga's decision to reclassify a year early and play against grown men in the G-League? lol

Yeah because workouts are definitely more valuable than game film. That's why Wiseman's workout shooting, handle, and finishing instantly transferred to the league. 

 

Look I’m taking James Bouknight stat trajectory as a star player way more than these other guys with supposedly more potential who are too scared to do anything with it.

Bouknight did what a young kid is supposed to do, play thru an injury and keep firing them up then come back work on his shot and light up the draft process. He’s only going to get better and better with his mindset

[NYRaider]

14 minutes ago, Texansfan713 said:

Green wont be a bad defender in the league.  Cade shot 40 percent from the college 3 point line.  Green shot 36 percent from the NBA three point line.  Green improved his jump shot from high school.  Cade the better player dont get me wrong but Green's upside is tremendous. 

Cade's 3 point shooting was kind of an anomaly this year he had never really shot the 3 that well at any level including HS, AAU, or team USA events. 

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, Kirill said:

Look I’m taking James Bouknight stat trajectory as a star player way more than these other guys with supposedly more potential who are too scared to do anything with it.

Bouknight did what a young kid is supposed to do, play thru an injury and keep firing them up then come back work on his shot and light up the draft process. He’s only going to get better and better with his mindset

I'm looking at the actual production that he put up on the court during a 2 year career at UConn. From a physical profile stand point at 6'4.5" 190 with a 6'8" wingspan his profile projects closest to Malik Beasley and D'Angelo Russell according to NBA Athlete's database.  Bouknight was healthy enough to go through the shooting drills at the combine but refused to partake in any of the athletic testing drills, seems a little odd to me. He also refused to participate in any of the scrimmages and went to a school in a smaller conference, is he afraid to compete? 

You can use the injury excuse this year but over a 2 year sample size he struggled shooting off the bounce, shooting mid-range jump shots, shooting from 3, and in catch and shoot situations. Has he just been hurt his entire college career? Cause if so that's another red flag, if he can't stay healthy in the AAC on a 30 game schedule will he be able to stay healthy over the course of an 82 game season? 

Shooting well in a pre-draft workout in an empty gym against no defense means absolutely nothing if it doesn't translate into actual games. And even more than just his shooting struggles his slender frame, defensive inconsistency, and lack of any playmaking whatsoever are also major red flags. 

Ben Simmons in a 2 min workout clip hit more 3's with perfect form than he has in 4 years in the NBA. But yeah, open gym workouts are definitely more valuable than game film. 

 

[Sllim Pickens]

Lol at someone hyping up Bouknight just because his team isn’t in the range to draft someone better.  
 

Saying he did what a kids supposed to do but Green went and played against men fighting for their careers and balled out against them.  

[Texansfan713]

WE GETTING CADE!

EDIT:  GG he deleted it

Edited July 27, 2021 by Texansfan713

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

I don't see how people think Jalen Green > him.

Green is gonna be fun offensively, but he'll be food on defense and needs to improve his handle quite a bit.

Because he lacks a degree of explosiveness to consistently blow past guys. When he was creating his own offense off the dribble in the half court, 67% of his FGA were jump shots, 12% of his FGA were floaters, and 21% of his FGA were at the rim. 55% of his 3's being contested step backs created off the dribble validates that point even more, the reason he was taking so many shots like that was because he couldn't consistently get into the lane. I'm sure NBA spacing will definitely help him but I just don't see a guy with the athleticism to consistently create easy shots for himself. 

And for a guy that's hailed as a PG or primary ball handler he had a 1:1 assist/to ratio in transition and an 0.8:1 assist/to ratio in the half court. 

IIRC 33% of Green's shots in the half court came at the rim and he shot 70% on those attempts. He's probably the shiftiest player in the draft in terms of being able to blow past guys off the bounce and that's with him still having a ways to go in improving his handle. 

Cade averaged 2.3 3PM's per game at a 40% clip in the Big 12 and Green averaged 2.1 3PM's per game at a 37% clip in the G-League. Green also had a 2.8:2.7 assist:to ratio while Cade had a 3.5:4.0 assist:to ratio. 

Neither guy was very consistent defensively the difference was that Cade was defending guys in the Big 12 and Green was defending professionals. 

When I look at Green I see a guy that has all of the physical tools but just needs to bulk up. He'll be able to get to his spots at will as he adds strength and tightens his handle. When I look at Cade I see a guy that is kind of maxed out physically and had to settle for tough shots to score against college players because he's just an average athlete. 

And not to mention when you look at the one-n-done guys that have come out of non-power house programs they usually don't live up to the hype.  

[NYRaider]

23 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Lol at someone hyping up Bouknight just because his team isn’t in the range to draft someone better.  
 

Saying he did what a kids supposed to do but Green went and played against men fighting for their careers and balled out against them.  

He's a sniper yet shot terrible for 2 seasons in a small conference, yeah...