lark25 Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 Ozzy your point is contradictory: - Brown was unfairly dropped due to testing; then - Leather wood should be upgraded due to testing. Its one or the other. Yeah Orlando had a better resume but if I were paid to make a call on this no way I'm touching such a poor athlete before r4. Are there outliers? Yes but they're not the rule. I think if someone tests well you look back and maybe factor more upside or squash any perception of lack athleticism but it probably shouldn't make an average looking player a 1st rounder unless you're sure it can be coached or wasn't used properly in a massive way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 1 hour ago, LinebackerGod said: Orlando Brown’s tape was 1,000x better than Leatherwoods. Especially in pass pro. Brown didn’t have a ton of traditional pass sets, but he held strong every time he did. Leatherwood has technical issues and is build top-heavy. Unlike Brown, he plays top-heavy as well and doesn’t look comfortable pass blocking. Leatherwood looks like someone that would kick the crap out of you in a street fight, but he doesn’t handle speed rushers well at all. That is the thing, Leatherwood sure is not a typical LT at all, yet played LT his entire career outside of that SOPH season when Jonah Williams was healthy. I think he would be far better as a OG and if he has some what LT skills could be a great pass protecting as OG. Might not be strong enough, would have loved to see his bench numbers but again any issues he had is because he was playing out of position yet still did pretty damn well overall. I think gave up 5 sacks over his career which is 48 games. Last year had over 800 + snaps played and 2 sacks given up, I believe 2 sacks the year before so what let us say around 1600+ snaps in two years and four sacks allowed? That is awful in pass pro on one of the best teams in the nation when playing out of position? I do not think so, especially considering some of the great players they went up in year after year. I think that is the issue, people view him as a LT only when he is absolutely not and could be a hell of a guard. Orlando Brown could just maul guys and was long enough to control them, but he did struggle at times but yeah that offense allowed most defenses to stay so off balance they could never really rush the passer because they ran the ball so well and a lot of the passes were out so quick. Leatherwood blocked for Jalen Hurts who early in his career really held on to the football and did not make quick decisions. Tua who was mobile but injured a lot and when he was hurt and playing was hard to protect because he purposefully did not want to scramble because he could get hurt more. Then Mac Jones who is a better athlete than most think but still loves being in the pocket and it is hard to block for him compared to say Baker Mayfield who scrambles and gets out of pressure constantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 What were Tommy Doyle's numbers on his pro day, I cannot find them anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinebackerGod Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 @Ozzy I also think Leatherwood could be a really good guard. But there's no doubt he looks uncomfortable in space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 14 minutes ago, LinebackerGod said: @Ozzy I also think Leatherwood could be a really good guard. But there's no doubt he looks uncomfortable in space. Agreed but honestly I have never viewed him as a LT, maybe RT but even then I think it is guard all the way so his ability in space is less important to me. And again he plays top of the line talent and has four years in a row. Also it is not like he was awful out of position either, so that is a big plus he can play LT if need be or if someone goes down. Could Vera-Tucker hold up at LT for Bama starting the last two seasons and filling in at LT his true freshman year, no way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, Chrissooner49er said: All of the Hurricane EDGE players scare me off. Whether it be injury history or questionable speed off the edge, I am really not interested. You do realize there is more than one way to be an effective pass rusher in this league right? Edited March 30, 2021 by MSURacerDT55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 16 hours ago, Forge said: I think a lot of people had Phillips as the DE1 in this class in terms of talent. I don't think the talent was ever a real question. He's a former 5 star recruit. The question is reconciling that with the injuries, the previous "retirement", etc. Personally, I like the tape of a lot of other pass rushers over Phillips. I know he's an athlete, so while it's great his measurables were off the charts, I don't know if it bumps him up that much. IMO, most of the time, combine testing numbers for pass rushers are about seeing if they drop more than making them move up. It does show you how high a ceiling is too, but that's it. I've been bitten too many times by good testing pass rushers. 11 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said: You do realize there is more than one way to be an effective pass rusher in this league right? I keep going back and forth on the rankings for these guys. Three very different pass rushers. Rousseau jumps off the tape in 2019, but needs developing. Phillips is a do-it-all, but I think he's more athletic in his numbers than on tape and has an injury history. Roche is a little small, but has the best bend in the class, and IMO, the best tape overall. I would be happy if the Titans landed any of them, in the right round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 40 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Agreed but honestly I have never viewed him as a LT, maybe RT but even then I think it is guard all the way so his ability in space is less important to me. And again he plays top of the line talent and has four years in a row. Also it is not like he was awful out of position either, so that is a big plus he can play LT if need be or if someone goes down. Could Vera-Tucker hold up at LT for Bama starting the last two seasons and filling in at LT his true freshman year, no way. You don’t know this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 Getting lost in the mix is how poorly Brevin Jordan tested for a move tight end 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, goldfishwars said: Getting lost in the mix is how poorly Brevin Jordan tested for a move tight end Basically what I thought Brevin Jordan might be, and what I bashed Pat F about have swapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 22 minutes ago, Scoundrel said: You don’t know this Go watch him play LT against Oregon in the Pac-12 title game. His bench press does show off impressive strength but he is a OG all the way. He as well was out of position this season and yeah he struggled in that Pac-12 title game giving up multiple sacks and pressures. To me Leatherwood was more sound over a longer period of time at LT than Vera-Tucker was who only played it one season. Could Vera-Tucker play LT as a true freshman, I doubt it, his career track record shows that. While Leatherwood was starting as a true freshman at LT once Jonah Williams got hurt for one of the best teams in the country, Vera-Tucker was redshirting on USC. I don't think he even started as a RS FR the following year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, goldfishwars said: Getting lost in the mix is how poorly Brevin Jordan tested for a move tight end True he did not time well but the dude was very explosive on Miami this past season and is a strong, thick athletic pass catcher with big play potential. Maybe the guy just does not track test well but put on the pads he can motor. In the right system he could be a hell of a weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 50 minutes ago, goldfishwars said: Not surprising. He's not going to do anything but hurt his stock by running a 40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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