Sell me on a QB

[WindyCity]

5 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

So Mac Jones ... let me sell him to you since that is name of thread.  

I instinctively hated him without seeing him because he played for AL.  I thought Tua was way overrated because of that.   I made analogy somewhere of shooting 3s in driveway.   Big difference between that and playing with a hand in your face.   

Then I saw photo of him and I thought who would draft this guy?  He is not an elite athlete.  This is guy you play in intramural sports.  And people are saying he can't run.  Sheesh, does he even lift bro?  He isn't even tall.  

Who takes a QB that can't run in 2021?

Then I saw him play.  He just drops ball right in, on time and in right place.   He looks just like Burrow did throwing ball two years ago.  

He doesn't whip it.   People want to see zip.  But zip is hard to catch.   Maybe he can't whip it.   But ball seems to get where it needs to go and its in front of defender.  And he seldom overthrows his guy.   He gives his guy a chance to make a play.   Michael Irvin described playing for Aikman once, he said Troy throws a ball and it hovers before your hands.  It says, "catch me, catch me."    That's what this guy's balls look like.   Footballs, that is.   

So Miami plans on starting Tua by reports and building around him.   Philly is starting Jalen Hurts.   This guy played, in college, far better than either of these guys.  They all had stacked teams.   Why isn't Mac at least as well thought of has them?   Because he can't run?   He reads better, is more accurate and gets ball out faster.  

My negative isn't Mac.  I have changed my mind and like Mac.   Well I don't like that he is not a threat to run.   That does add something and makes you play D differently.   Zone reads simply aren't going to be a thing with Mac.   I also think his release point isn't high and he gets ball swatted too much.

 My main negative is Nagy.   Can Nagy work within his talents and strengths?   I think Josh McDaniels, maybe with a bit more talent around him in NE, can succeed with Mac.   Not sure Nagy can.

Nagy is better off with Fields.    I think Mac might get ruined in Chicago.  I almost hope he isn't drafted here.

   
 

 

Mac for me would be a nice get in the 10-12 range. 

His tools keep me from wanting to move higher. I think his ceiling isn't as high as other guys, and I am more concerned with ceiling than floor. Mac would be a nice addition to the Bears QB room and would at least give us a different look than Mitch.

[Madmike90]

On thing I don't understand is the hope that Atlanta trades down...why would they? They have a near 36 year old QB who doesn't fit what their new front office and HC want to do...why on earth would that team not take Trey Lance at #4?

[beardown3231]

32 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

On thing I don't understand is the hope that Atlanta trades down...why would they? They have a near 36 year old QB who doesn't fit what their new front office and HC want to do...why on earth would that team not take Trey Lance at #4?

IIRC cutting/trading Ryan in the next 2 years would leave them with a serious dead cap hit

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

38 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

IIRC cutting/trading Ryan in the next 2 years would leave them with a serious dead cap hit

 

38 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

IIRC cutting/trading Ryan in the next 2 years would leave them with a serious dead cap hit

If I were them I would be thinking of taking the QB with the highest upside there, and then wrap him in shrink wrap this year, then you have the luxury to actually develop the guy that needs it and then decide on cutting/trading Ryan next year when the dead cap is more amenable.  I think Lance there would be a perfect fit, but to answer the prompt; if you're Atlanta you trade out because some lunatic from Chicago offers you 4 first round picks. 

[Madmike90]

46 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

IIRC cutting/trading Ryan in the next 2 years would leave them with a serious dead cap hit

The point is a QB like Lance might need two years to sit...but in terms of upside he could then be your starting QB for 10 years and be elite at it...if we are saying we need an elite talent to sit for a year then why does Atlanta not?

[WindyCity]

1 hour ago, Madmike90 said:

On thing I don't understand is the hope that Atlanta trades down...why would they? They have a near 36 year old QB who doesn't fit what their new front office and HC want to do...why on earth would that team not take Trey Lance at #4?

How doesn’t he fit?

They are talking about trading down because they have a stacked offense and a QB who should have 3-4 good years left.

They have a talentless defense that needs a ton of premium picks invested because the cap space is spent all on offense.

Trading down likely lands them 3-4 premium picks.

[WindyCity]

7 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

The point is a QB like Lance might need two years to sit...but in terms of upside he could then be your starting QB for 10 years and be elite at it...if we are saying we need an elite talent to sit for a year then why does Atlanta not?

Because the alternative is 3-4 impact defensive picks that will help them compete in their Ryan/Julio window.

If they stay at 4 I expect they take Pitts and try and score a hundred a game.

[WindyCity]

Atlanta could take a QB, but they would be ending the Ryan and Julio era.

The only way they can rebuild the defense is to trade down and add a to of picks.

[WindyCity]

21 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

 

If I were them I would be thinking of taking the QB with the highest upside there, and then wrap him in shrink wrap this year, then you have the luxury to actually develop the guy that needs it and then decide on cutting/trading Ryan next year when the dead cap is more amenable.  I think Lance there would be a perfect fit, but to answer the prompt; if you're Atlanta you trade out because some lunatic from Chicago offers you 4 first round picks. 

Are Ryan and Julio going to be cool with you punting he end of their careers?

This is one of Ryan’s few remaining competitive seasons, Julio is going to be 33, and the defense is terrible.

Restructuring Ryan’s deal would be even weirder if that is the case. He is hard to move next season as well. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by WindyCity

[Madmike90]

25 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

How doesn’t he fit?

They are talking about trading down because they have a stacked offense and a QB who should have 3-4 good years left.

They have a talentless defense that needs a ton of premium picks invested because the cap space is spent all on offense.

Trading down likely lands them 3-4 premium picks.

Ryan doesn't fit the mold of a QB that made Smith's offence work in Tennessee...

And if they want 3-4 premium picks to take advantage of that window why would they pick us of all the teams who could be looking to move up? We have the least ammo.

[soulman]

3 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Because the 2nd tier guy doesn't have anywhere near the talent if Justin Fields. 

I am on team add a super talented QB.

And if Fields goes to SF at #3?

Granted once you get passed Fields and Lance the next group including Jones and more traditional pocket passers but isn't that more the style of QB Nagy's scheme requires?  I don't believe there's much question about Fields skills or his ability to play almost immediately but I do believe there are far more concerns about Lance and that regard.  He seems far more of a bet on his upside than current availability.

I'm thinking of posting some rankings and an analysis of players at positions we may be looking to draft on offense later tonight.  Those rankings have Fields and Lance as equals while I see far more immediate differences between them.  But in either case you'd need a top 10 pick to get one and probably more like a top 6.  I have my doubts we could get there at a price we'd be willing to pay anyway and it would probably be Lance whose left along with Jones who I think may fall out of the top ten.  JMHO.

Even if you get Fields do you have the rest of the talent to win with him in 2021 or do you have what DeShaun Watson has in Houston?

[soulman]

On 4/20/2021 at 11:37 AM, RunningVaccs said:

The premise of this thread is really challenging.  The issue is that I don't think there is anyone here who is particularly enthusiastic about ANY specific track or player to fix the Bears.  You guys argue (ok, debate) but nobody seems at all invested in their point of view.  I think the reason is our damned offseason: no matter what option you prefer at QB, you agree it's probably not going to work. 

If we load up on best talents for needs, and QB doesn't align with position or value, then, we're screwed because Dalton is a hard ceiling for this team unless the rest of the offense somehow becomes elite. If we move up for a QB, then we're limited since we have more needs now than when the season ended (CB need makes me crazy).  If we reach a bit on a QB in the second, we're missing out on using that pick on what should be a starter and then we have to wait and see if Kellen Davis develops.

The only way the team comes out of this as a contender is either

-with a huge move for a QB that coincides with the rest of the team-especialy on O-somehow working out into a good group. 

-We get really really lucky with a 2nd or 3rd round QB who turns out to be a draft day steal.

I'm sure this is boring to hear from me again, but I hate that our path to a good result relies on the unlikely.  

 

It's not boring when you've correctly perceived the dilemma.  The failure of Trubisky to produce or the failure of Nagy and his staff to develop him (take your pick) has left us where we are now having to once again draft for a QB without being in an optimal spot to do it.

[WindyCity]

12 minutes ago, soulman said:

And if Fields goes to SF at #3?

Granted once you get passed Fields and Lance the next group including Jones and more traditional pocket passers but isn't that more the style of QB Nagy's scheme requires?  I don't believe there's much question about Fields skills or his ability to play almost immediately but I do believe there are far more concerns about Lance and that regard.  He seems far more of a bet on his upside than current availability.

I'm thinking of posting some rankings and an analysis of players at positions we may be looking to draft on offense later tonight.  Those rankings have Fields and Lance as equals while I see far more immediate differences between them.  But in either case you'd need a top 10 pick to get one and probably more like a top 6.  I have my doubts we could get there at a price we'd be willing to pay anyway and it would probably be Lance whose left along with Jones who I think may fall out of the top ten.  JMHO.

Even if you get Fields do you have the rest of the talent to win with him in 2021 or do you have what DeShaun Watson has in Houston?

My desire to go to 4 is largely based on Fields.

Lance 8-9

Mac 10-12

[WindyCity]

29 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Ryan doesn't fit the mold of a QB that made Smith's offence work in Tennessee...

And if they want 3-4 premium picks to take advantage of that window why would they pick us of all the teams who could be looking to move up? We have the least ammo.

What is it that Ryan cannot do that Tannehill can?

They may tell the Bears to shove it and 20 is too far. But that assumes that a team in the top 10 wants to move up. Ben Allbright has said he doubts the Broncos make a move up. Then they are down to NE, WFT and Chi, all comparable picks.

[soulman]

On 4/20/2021 at 11:39 AM, RunningVaccs said:

Also I think we'll know soon how long Pace and Nagy are under contract for.

What we know now is that Pace's deal is up after this season and Nagy's after the 2022 season.

It would seem pretty odd for an NFL team to permit it's GM to make a major trade for a QB in his lame duck year so that would indicate Pace is good through 2022 at the very least.  Then you have the same with Nagy.  Are they gonna allow him to enter his lame duck year without a new deal?

I would tend to ignore those articles saying GMcC is losing patience with either of them.  He said he wants to see progress but never defined exactly what that meant so how the 2021 finishes may or may not govern their future especially with a new QB in the fold they can convince GMcC is their road to better things.  Remember, GMcC dislikes turnover if it can be avoided.