Sell me on a QB

[Nads786]

On 4/18/2021 at 5:11 PM, WindyCity said:

1. We aren’t out of reach of anyone not named Wilson and Lawrence.

2. We are going no where without a QB. We are literally just wasting games and seasons.

3. You cannot find a QB unless you actually draft one, a bunch of teams are wishing they had “reached” on Dak Prescott.

4. In the NFL you have 2 options, you are either competing or developing with your QB... Andy Dalton is neither.

5. Would I prefer Pace wasn’t the one making the pick? Of course, he is a clown. But there are only 2 options at this point.

-Pace hits on a QB or this entire thing gets ripped to the studs and we start over with a new GM. There will be no “retool” the defense will be old and over paid, Robinson will leave, and we still won’t have a QB.

I will add that there is an insane amount of luck involved with acquiring the right QB. We have to keep taking shots until we find our guy. We cannot wait till all the conditions are perfect to draft a QB. 

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, Nads786 said:

I will add that there is an insane amount of luck involved with acquiring the right QB. We have to keep taking shots until we find our guy. We cannot wait till all the conditions are perfect to draft a QB. 

We can... if we enjoy going 8-8 forever.

[Madmike90]

8 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Without a real QB you are irrelevant. 

Draft a starting RT, this team is still an 8-9 win team with no chance of doing anything in the playoffs.

Draft a starting CB, this is still an 8-9 win team that has no chance of doing anything in the playoffs.

Draft a starting QB and the moment he takes the field and for the next 10 years you are relevant.

Again do you think any of those 2nd tier QBs are 10 year starters? Again we could catch lighting in a bottle but the chances are pretty small...why keep throwing resource after resource at a problem if those resources don't put you into a position to properly address the position.

[Madmike90]

8 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Why doesn't he help you win now? 3 rookie QBs last season came in and gave their teams major boosts.

If you draft Justin Fields and he is as good as many think he can be, Andy Dalton is on the bench before the bye week. Not to mention that you are instantly more relevant in 2022 and actually building something.

So we give up a ton of assets in next years draft to try and get up for a QB in this years draft when you have yourself said you have no faith in Pace or Nagy to make the right decision? Then because we can't add anything else in this draft you can't protect that QB or indeed draft weapons for him he then comes in and says wins 6 games...are you keeping Pace & Nagy then? Because if you don't you are then trying to attract a new GM & HC who are handcuffed to the QB and have limited draft capital...who is taking that job on because I highly doubt it would be the top candidates.

[WindyCity]

11 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Again do you think any of those 2nd tier QBs are 10 year starters? Again we could catch lighting in a bottle but the chances are pretty small...why keep throwing resource after resource at a problem if those resources don't put you into a position to properly address the position.

Maybe Mond. He has some physical tools and a bunch of experience. Obviously I wouldn’t bet on it, but he is my 2nd round fallback.

[WindyCity]

6 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

So we give up a ton of assets in next years draft to try and get up for a QB in this years draft when you have yourself said you have no faith in Pace or Nagy to make the right decision? Then because we can't add anything else in this draft you can't protect that QB or indeed draft weapons for him he then comes in and says wins 6 games...are you keeping Pace & Nagy then? Because if you don't you are then trying to attract a new GM & HC who are handcuffed to the QB and have limited draft capital...who is taking that job on because I highly doubt it would be the top candidates.

George chose to keep them. All we can do is roll with that.

You can’t keep them and then tell them to punt on 2021 with a mediocre bridge QB.

The mistake was made in January, now we need to roll with it.

[WindyCity]

7 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

So we give up a ton of assets in next years draft to try and get up for a QB in this years draft when you have yourself said you have no faith in Pace or Nagy to make the right decision? Then because we can't add anything else in this draft you can't protect that QB or indeed draft weapons for him he then comes in and says wins 6 games...are you keeping Pace & Nagy then? Because if you don't you are then trying to attract a new GM & HC who are handcuffed to the QB and have limited draft capital...who is taking that job on because I highly doubt it would be the top candidates.

If the rookie QB is any good, I expect we win 9-10 games.

This roster won 8 games with Mitch and Foles emBEARassing themselves most weeks.

The roster is good enough to support a rookie QB. It isn’t good enough to win a playoff game with Andy Dalton.

[WindyCity]

I guess I don’t understand George keeping Pace and Nagy, but making them play 2021 with some mediocre veteran QB.

How can we possibly expect sign I can’t better results with a largely similar roster and marginally better QB play?

If the plan was to punt on 2021 with Andy Dalton, why keep Pace and Nagy? Why not get the new regime in to start cleaning up the mess and starting the retooling process?

Edited April 20, 2021 by WindyCity

[Uncle Buck]

9 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Wait for what?

How many years should you punt on actually trying to win?

Starting Andy Dalton for 17 games is punting on the 2021 season. You have not shot of actually competing for anything. 

I totally agree with you about Dalton.  The problem as I see it is that the Bears were punting before they even signed Dalton.  Unless they were able to land a guy like Russell Wilson or pre-scandal Deshaun Watson, I just don't think the current head coach and GM are going to be able to get you to the promised land.

What I think the team will have to do before they can realistically win a Super Bowl is get rid of Nagy and probably Pace too.  Sadly, that probably means it will be too late for a lot of the older but very good players currently on the roster.  They need a new regime running the show before most quarterbacks are going to be able to make a difference, unfortunately. 

 

[WindyCity]

Just now, Uncle Buck said:

I totally agree with you about Dalton.  The problem as I see it is that the Bears were punting before they even signed Dalton.  Unless they were able to land a guy like Russell Wilson or pre-scandal Deshaun Watson, I just don't think the current head coach and GM are going to be able to get you to the promised land.

What I think the team will have to do before they can realistically win a Super Bowl is get rid of Nagy and probably Pace too.  Sadly, that probably means it will be too late for a lot of the older but very good players currently on the roster.  They need a new regime running the show before most quarterbacks are going to be able to make a difference, unfortunately. 

 

If you land a franchise QB it fixes a ton and building a truly competitive team becomes much easier.

I agree. If the end result was Andy Dalton starting and punting on 2021 then they should have gotten a new regime in here to do it.

If George was sold on a fantasy of Watson or Wilson, he should be embarrassed of himself.

Andy Dalton is who you sign when you want to go 8-8 and not get booed at home. If George was cool with that in 2021 why keep anyone around?

[Heinz D.]

5 hours ago, soulman said:

Your ideas are far different than mine and they usually are. 

I actually don't think that's as clear cut of a statement as your asserting, there. 

5 hours ago, dll2000 said:

You build best team you can and do what no one is doing.   You draft 3rd and 4th round QBs with upside every other year and implement a real plan and program to develop them (not what teams are doing now but more, much more).  Might be a lot more guys in existence that can play that never get the proper training or chance to do so.      

That's the sort of thinking that should have taken over the organization at the first possible inkling that Trubisky might suck.

In other words, after his rookie year.

4 hours ago, Nads786 said:

I will add that there is an insane amount of luck involved with acquiring the right QB. We have to keep taking shots until we find our guy. We cannot wait till all the conditions are perfect to draft a QB. 

Yeah...to not try to get a QB is insane. For Pace to stand by his "guy", Mitch for so long, without a backup plan, is insane. 

30 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Again do you think any of those 2nd tier QBs are 10 year starters? Again we could catch lighting in a bottle but the chances are pretty small...why keep throwing resource after resource at a problem if those resources don't put you into a position to properly address the position.

You can ignore what I, and a couple others, have said about Mills and Mond. But that's on you.

What are the alternatives? 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Heinz D.

[WindyCity]

The Bears should try and get the most talented QB in the draft that they can get.

If that means trading up, then that is what they should do.

If that means taking someone at 20 then that is what they should do.

If that means taking someone in round 2 that is what they should do.

 

To simply pass on trying to add the most talented QB they can is punting on the season.

[soulman]

2 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

I actually don't think that's as clear cut of a statement as your asserting, there. 

Windy and I tend to be on opposite sides of an issue more often than not.  That's not to say I'm right and he's wrong it's just different perspectives on the same or similar topics.  Windy loves to debate these things and to a degree so do I but after a bit it always becomes a circular debate where we've each staked out a position that isn't gonna change.  It works much like the US Senate.  🤣

I'm not kidding when I say I actually don't care what Pace decides to do.  If he's able to draft the QB of our dreams without damaging the rest of his roster we should all be thrilled.  If instead he brings us another Trubisky or Grossman and we remain mired in mediocrity land that's pretty much what's to be expected under McCaskey ownership and Phillips leadership anyway. So I truly do not care.

The past 30 or so years of watching this team under the direction of Mikey McCaskey then GMcC and Teddy Bears has sapped all of the emotions out of me.  I may still be a Bears fan but it's a lot like having spent 30 years in a bad relationship I should end but lack the energy to even do that.  Utter apathy has set in because the one thing that needs to change will not be changed. So it's just...DDSOS.

[WindyCity]

I don’t see the downside of a massive trade up for Pace. Let’s say he trades up for Justin Fields

Hits: he is likely the GM for a decade. He would have broken the curse and set the team up for extended contention.

Misses: he is fired. Which he was likely anyway and the lack of picks are the next guys problem. He probably gets a job with Atlanta where his buddy is GM and who he just fed a bunch of picks.

 

If you are likely fired why not go down swinging?

[soulman]

10 hours ago, dll2000 said:

But how do you get out of 8 - 10 wins per year?

I don't think you do it by trading 3 first round picks for 4th or 5th consensus QB who has to deal with a new coach in his 2nd year.   I think that is bad recipe.  

Ithink you tank and get the top QB via your draft position (and maybe a trade to get a little higher) and pair him with your new coach form year one.   

Or build a great team and throw a serviceable vet in there and hope the team carries him.   It's been done.   That will get you one SB only usually though.     

OR

You build best team you can and do what no one is doing.   You draft 3rd and 4th round QBs with upside every other year and implement a real plan and program to develop them (not what teams are doing now but more, much more).  Might be a lot more guys in existence that can play that never get the proper training or chance to do so.      

But you're speaking logic to emotion when you address Windy and a few others as well.  All of what you posted makes perfect sense to anyone invested in improving their situation but not to anyone who believes they can buy success now if only they _________________.  Delayed gratification is a foreign concept to those who think that way.  You have to plan to succeed and the Bears don't have a plan.

No one is thrilled with being a .500 team every year with a few seasons above or below it but it's what can be expected of a management team as weak as Phillips and GMcC.  Ted Phillips has no idea how to build and maintain a winning team.  His focus is on keeping money flowing into the Bears organization via business partnerships and sponsors and maximizing the overall value of the franchise itself.

GMcC won't fire Ted Phillips and install a top NFL Exec to run the team.  So unless Pace can somehow overcome that limitation to become that top NFL Exec himself we're stuck with the mediocrity that's been native to this team and it's top down structure since 1983 when GSH passed away and the McCaskey Clan took over.  They took over a dominant heirloom NFL franchise and turned it into what we have now.

IMHO anyone who believes this team can be restored to one who dominates even the NFCN under McCaskey ownership is kidding themselves.  Even had we been smart enough to draft Aaron Rodgers and had him throughout his prime years we still would have found ways to fail to dominate like GB has.  As long as SF is sold out and sponsors money keeps rolling in they won't fix what's not broken.

Unlike GSH the McCaskey's don't see a broken team.  They see one always on the verge of success.  It's nice to be optimistic but NFL teams win by being realistic.  That's something GSH realized when he hired Jim Finks to fix his broken franshise.  The Godfather of the NFL wasn't too proud to step down and let someone else do the heavy lifting involved with rebuilding his beloved Chicago Bears.

But the McCaskey's aren't GSH.  They have forever lived in his shadow trying to prove to themselves and Bears fans that they know enough about running an NFL team to make it as successful as the one GSH rebuilt into World Champions with the help of Jim Finks and Jerry Vainisi.  In 1986 after having won the Super Bowl Michael McCaskey fired Vainisi and began the Bears slide into oblivion.

Once yet another year passed with GMcC declaring no changes at the top would be made I threw in the towel.  No matter who we draft or trade for to play QB at best we may get another shot at a Super Bowl but IMHO it will be a one and done deal again because ownership doesn't know how to manage a team who wins consistently.  They won't sell or fire Phillips so why should we expect any change in this?

I followed this team for far to many year to not know what I'm seeing.  This is who the Bears are and how they will remain under McCaskey ownership.  They're a nice bunch of folks.  Close knit bunch of Sunday church goers too I believe.  The became billionaires without having to invest one red cent in what's made them billionaires.  This is no longer George Halas' Bears.  It's the McCaskey Bears for infinity.

Edited April 21, 2021 by soulman