Sell me on a QB

[AZBearsFan]

You can’t just not take swings on a QB in the draft because the odds of success where you’re picking aren’t high. It’s like watching your kid play little league - seeing them strike out sucks every time but you’d much rather they strike out swinging than with the bat on their shoulder. If you think Mond might be great if he maxes out his potential then draft him (after round 1). You run a risk taking him over a potential starter elsewhere in round 2, but you run the risk that Mond becomes a starter elsewhere if you pass on him too. There’s always gonna be second guessing. Franchise QB is the one position you can’t really stop gap. We can find a 1-year option at corner or safety or WR in May that you can win with. You’re probably never getting that at QB. 

[Madmike90]

On 4/19/2021 at 3:08 AM, Sugashane said:

You're not taking Jones, Trask, Mond, etc to win now. You're taking them in hopes of having that piece actually worth a damn in the future. For once to have stability there would be amazing.  

No we're wont pick the right guy most likely and our coach is a hack so it's irrelevant.  

This is my point tho...he doesn't help you win now so as much as having stability would be amazing your not going to get that once Pace & Nagy are gone...your then asking a new GM & HC to work with one of these guys which might rule some candidates who want nothing to do with that QB out as well as make that now 2nd year QB learn another scheme regardless of who we bring in...where is the stability in that? 

[Madmike90]

21 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Add a day 1 starter at RT, add a day 1 starting CB in the draft the Bears are still irrelevant.

But adding a guy who won't start makes us relevant? I don't see how a rookie who lets be honest won't beat out Dalton helps two guys fighting for their jobs.

[Madmike90]

3 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

You can’t just not take swings on a QB in the draft because the odds of success where you’re picking aren’t high. It’s like watching your kid play little league - seeing them strike out sucks every time but you’d much rather they strike out swinging than with the bat on their shoulder. If you think Mond might be great if he maxes out his potential then draft him (after round 1). You run a risk taking him over a potential starter elsewhere in round 2, but you run the risk that Mond becomes a starter elsewhere if you pass on him too. There’s always gonna be second guessing. Franchise QB is the one position you can’t really stop gap. We can find a 1-year option at corner or safety or WR in May that you can win with. You’re probably never getting that at QB. 

My worry is this was Phil Emery's process...keep drafting a guy till you find a guy...tough with limited resources to get behind it IMO.

[Madmike90]

The question was two fold guys...who of these 2nd tier guys do we have faith in becoming a quality NFL starter?

[beardown3231]

3 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

My worry is this was Phil Emery's process...keep drafting a guy till you find a guy...tough with limited resources to get behind it IMO.

Might as well get used to it. Pace has had 2 or 3 swings at multiple positions and he keeps getting chances. It sucks but such is life

[dll2000]

7 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

You can’t just not take swings on a QB in the draft because the odds of success where you’re picking aren’t high. It’s like watching your kid play little league - seeing them strike out sucks every time but you’d much rather they strike out swinging than with the bat on their shoulder. If you think Mond might be great if he maxes out his potential then draft him (after round 1). You run a risk taking him over a potential starter elsewhere in round 2, but you run the risk that Mond becomes a starter elsewhere if you pass on him too. There’s always gonna be second guessing. Franchise QB is the one position you can’t really stop gap. We can find a 1-year option at corner or safety or WR in May that you can win with. You’re probably never getting that at QB. 

I agree, but there are costs.  You are looking for quality starters in first three rounds and hopefully stars.   You have a fairly decent of landing such a player in those rounds.  

Each time you take a QB in one of those spots you lose that opportunity.   

But Dan QB is most important.  Yes, of course.  But most teams, including Bears, have no plan to develop QBs unless they take one in first round.   So taking later QBs to walk around and hold clipboards and attend meetings is generally a waste of time.  

Until you commit to developing and coaching up bench QBs drafted in later rounds with real quality practice reps in season it is a complete waste of time and you are just hoping to get lucky.  

Also how do you get quality reps in season without live work?  I don’t know.  Do live work in practice is only answer.  Or figure something else out. Someone said VR.  Don’t know how effective that would be.   Looking at VR is not same as real life peripheral vision and instinct development.  

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by dll2000
Stupid ad popped up and then posted before I was done

[WindyCity]

4 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

But adding a guy who won't start makes us relevant? I don't see how a rookie who lets be honest won't beat out Dalton helps two guys fighting for their jobs.

Without a real QB you are irrelevant. 

Draft a starting RT, this team is still an 8-9 win team with no chance of doing anything in the playoffs.

Draft a starting CB, this is still an 8-9 win team that has no chance of doing anything in the playoffs.

Draft a starting QB and the moment he takes the field and for the next 10 years you are relevant.

[WindyCity]

4 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

This is my point tho...he doesn't help you win now so as much as having stability would be amazing your not going to get that once Pace & Nagy are gone...your then asking a new GM & HC to work with one of these guys which might rule some candidates who want nothing to do with that QB out as well as make that now 2nd year QB learn another scheme regardless of who we bring in...where is the stability in that? 

Why doesn't he help you win now? 3 rookie QBs last season came in and gave their teams major boosts.

If you draft Justin Fields and he is as good as many think he can be, Andy Dalton is on the bench before the bye week. Not to mention that you are instantly more relevant in 2022 and actually building something.

[WindyCity]

7 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

You can’t just not take swings on a QB in the draft because the odds of success where you’re picking aren’t high. It’s like watching your kid play little league - seeing them strike out sucks every time but you’d much rather they strike out swinging than with the bat on their shoulder. If you think Mond might be great if he maxes out his potential then draft him (after round 1). You run a risk taking him over a potential starter elsewhere in round 2, but you run the risk that Mond becomes a starter elsewhere if you pass on him too. There’s always gonna be second guessing. Franchise QB is the one position you can’t really stop gap. We can find a 1-year option at corner or safety or WR in May that you can win with. You’re probably never getting that at QB. 

This is well said.

We are going nowhere with our current QB situation. We can patch other holes and live with less than star players at RT or SS, but a revolving door of mediocre veteran QBs leaves you nowhere.

There are 2 teams, those who have franchise QBs and those who do not, and the only way to get out of the 2nd group is to draft your way out.

[WindyCity]

10 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

I've been wanting the Bears to get a good QB somehow this offseason, but I have to admit, you made a great case why they should probably wait, Mike.

Wait for what?

How many years should you punt on actually trying to win?

Starting Andy Dalton for 17 games is punting on the 2021 season. You have not shot of actually competing for anything. 

[dll2000]

5 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Why doesn't he help you win now? 3 rookie QBs last season came in and gave their teams major boosts.

If you draft Justin Fields and he is as good as many think he can be, Andy Dalton is on the bench before the bye week. Not to mention that you are instantly more relevant in 2022 and actually building something.

If you trade up big for Fields or Mack he is your starter from day one.   He gets 95% of reps.  Anything else is stupid.  

[WindyCity]

Does anyone here think that an 8-9 win season with Andy Dalton does more to save Pace and Nagy's jobs than having a potential franchise QB to show off?

The owner and team president could not stop talking about the QB position in their end of year press conference. I cannot see them seeing a repeat of 2020 with a different mediocre QB impressing either of them.

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, dll2000 said:

If you trade up big for Fields or Mack he is your starter from day one.   He gets 95% of reps.  Anything else is stupid.  

I think at some point his rookie year he is your starter. I do not think you need to put any parameters on it.

The minute you draft a 1st round QB the focus becomes their development. Pace and Nagy will be judged on how good the QB is more than wins and loses.

[AZBearsFan]

7 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I agree but there are costs.  You are looking for quality starters in first three rounds and hopefully stars.   And you have a fairly deceEach time you take a QB in one of those spots you lose 

You can say that same thing both ways though. Every time you draft a CB or WR or SS you’re also passing over what might be a potential starting QB too.

I’m not suggesting drafting a QB just to say you did - I’m suggesting if you think Mond or Mills or Trask can realistically be an above average QB for you this or next year and potentially even better longer term then the cost you’re talking about in taking them in round 2 or 3 is acceptable to me because right now we don’t have a QB that can take us anywhere of consequence. Teams that win in spite of their QBs in the modern NFL only do so inconsistently. Most of the time they’re just treading water. I’m tired of treading water.

I agree that Hail Mary long shots at QB can wait until day 3 though. I don’t think Mond or Mills fall into that Hail Mary category. I think both have a pretty good shot to be serviceable starters at minimum, with big upside. For me Trask is right cusp before the Hail Mary category so I wouldn’t take him before round 3.