Washington OTC at #82, you make the call. (#19 JOK, #51 W Davis, #74 Werner)

[e16bball]

48 minutes ago, offbyone said:

I don't really get the Tremble/Brevin type tight ends.  They are closer to full backs.  They aren't the long size mismatch players of the modern NFL.  

Not sure I would lump those two together. George Kittle is easily one of the most impactful players in the modern NFL, and he’s remarkably similar to Tremble in terms of athletic profile and play style coming out of college. Obviously, longer and rangier is always better — but if Tremble was 6’5 with really long arms, he’d be long long gone by 82.

I’m with you on Brevin Jordan. I don’t really see the major appeal. Not a particularly inspiring athlete or advanced route runner. And he’s not a good blocker, which takes the “high floor” of a guy like Tremble out of the equation — with Tremble, worst case scenario, he doesn’t develop as a major downfield pass-catcher and all you have is a guy who will be an excellent H-back/sniffer type TE that will crack heads in the run game and give you some production after the catch on short throws. With Brevin, if he doesn’t develop as a pass-catcher, he’s pretty much useless. So personally I wouldn’t touch him until the 4th at the earliest. 

What I’m looking for in a 3rd round pick is a guy who I can solidly project to be at least a valuable contributor in some specific role, with legitimate tangible upside to be more than that. That’s why I like this area for picks like OTs who could at least be quality OGs, CBs and WRs who could at least give you value in the slot, DEs who can at least be situational pass-rushers, etc. TEs who can absolutely block well enough to be a big asset in that area at the pro level but might also have the tools to develop into dangerous receivers are also in that mold. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by e16bball

[MikeT14]

2 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

Hopefully. And I hope you don’t take this as a slight. I just man what we’ve done is like my worse nightmare for us this upcoming weekend. Not because we didn’t get good players. Please don’t take what I meant as a shot I love these threads. I love voting and I love to see what we all think. I think this is just the first time I’ve seen so much parody from our posters as to what they want as far as the votes and I’m slightly surprised.

I'll assume you mean parity even though parody might fit 😁

I've been surprised too. None of my picks have been the pick so far.

[ripsean21]

17 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

I'll assume you mean parity even though parody might fit 😁

I've been surprised too. None of my picks have been the pick so far.

You got me there 🤣🤣 yeah I’m not against the picks for our first two picks but I feel like those two positions are values in the 3rd. I just have a different plan to maximize the overall haul I think as you do and I’m surprised we got these guys. This is like the all need draft for us lol

[offbyone]

47 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Not sure I would lump those two together. George Kittle is easily one of the most impactful players in the modern NFL, and he’s remarkably similar to Tremble in terms of athletic profile and play style coming out of college. Obviously, longer and rangier is always better — but if Tremble was 6’5 with really long arms, he’d be long long gone by 82.

I’m with you on Brevin Jordan. I don’t really see the major appeal. Not a particularly inspiring athlete or advanced route runner. And he’s not a good blocker, which takes the “high floor” of a guy like Tremble out of the equation — with Tremble, worst case scenario, he doesn’t develop as a major downfield pass-catcher and all you have is a guy who will be an excellent H-back/sniffer type TE that will crack heads in the run game and give you some production after the catch on short throws. With Brevin, if he doesn’t develop as a pass-catcher, he’s pretty much useless. So personally I wouldn’t touch him until the 4th at the earliest. 

What I’m looking for in a 3rd round pick is a guy who I can solidly project to be at least a valuable contributor in some specific role, with legitimate tangible upside to be more than that. That’s why I like this area for picks like OTs who could at least be quality OGs, CBs and WRs who could at least give you value in the slot, DEs who can at least be situational pass-rushers, etc. TEs who can absolutely block well enough to be a big asset in that area at the pro level but might also have the tools to develop into dangerous receivers are also in that mold. 

Well put.  You have me warming up to Tremble.  One of the things I thought about after reading your post is that we likely have seen the best of Brevin, but Tremble has room to grow.  

[e16bball]

18 minutes ago, offbyone said:

Well put.  You have me warming up to Tremble.  One of the things I thought about after reading your post is that we likely have seen the best of Brevin, but Tremble has room to grow.  

My thought exactly. It’s always possible that Brevin blows up in the league — but he’s already pretty maxed out physically and his overall receiving skills/experience are probably significantly more advanced than Tremble at this point.

The latter point sounds like it’s in Jordan’s favor, but as you’re saying, it speaks to there being less projection/potential growth there. You can teach a guy to run routes and understand leverage/positioning in the passing game, in the sense that TEs need to have that mastered. But it’s awfully tough to teach explosion and to convince a guy that he genuinely enjoys plastering DEs and DBs alike in the run game. 

[e16bball]

The Tremble highlight video below is just a lot of fun to watch. Isolated plays of him destroying guys. The one where he comes in and obliterates the guy trailing the shallow crosser is just crazy. 

But I think you get a better sense of what he’s about from the full games, obviously. The BC game encapsulates most of the insights about him, for me at least. He’s in the backfield a lot, and also in that sniffer role off the LOS. A lot of that is due to the kid TE Mayer (87) who I absolutely love and will be a 1st rounder in a couple years. But it’s also due to how good a blocker he is in space: he’s fast, he’s explosive, and he targets guys very well in open areas. You love how consistent he is in making his blocks on the perimeter, and his athleticism gives you options, whether it’s that wham block that Gronk is famous for or just kicking him out on the perimeter to lead the way.

I think he’s impressive getting off the LOS as a receiver, and you can see that he’s fast enough to separate on these shallow crosses and mesh plays. He also makes some nice cuts on some of these out-breaking routes.

You also see the stuff that needs work. He doesn’t really “get it” yet in terms of the passing game. More than just about any players, TEs have to be able to adjust mid-stream to what they’re seeing from the coverage. He’s not there on that. And he’s also not quite there as an in-line blocker, at least not to the extent that he performs in space. He sticks his nose in there, but it’s not a strength. 

The thing I absolutely love is the effort level. There’s a play (at about 2:20 on the BC video) where ND has the ball at their own 33 or so. Tremble is running a very shallow cross from the offense’s left side. He’s wide open but Book throws it deep to Skowronek. Tremble is probably dead center of the hashes, at about the ND 36, when Book lets the ball go. Skowronek catches it at the BC 42 or so, and then almost immediately fumbles the ball and it bounces down to just inside the BC 35. The ball is surrounded by BC players, except for one blue jersey that comes screaming in from way up the field and damn near dislodges the ball from the BC guy who had seemed for all the world as if he would have an uncontested recovery. Never stopped playing, sprinted 30+ yards in pursuit of a play that he almost certainly would have no impact on, and almost made a huge play just because he plays like his hair is on fire. To me, that’s the most Kittle-esque part of this kid. He’d be fun to root for, if nothing else.

 

[Woz]

5 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

Quote

To tell the truth I love our first two picks but if this is our haul we completely missed the value in this class to draft need.

I agree this has been a slight issue so far. 

And as you said earlier, this is modeling the worst case scenario for Washington. As much as we might like to have everything go right for them, sometimes the rest of the league won't cooperate.

[Woz]

3 hours ago, offbyone said:

I don't really get the Tremble/Brevin type tight ends.  They are closer to full backs.  They aren't the long size mismatch players of the modern NFL.  

For me, it was the fact he was an actual TE, not someone we would have to theoretically move. None of the other options thrilled me, so I shrugged and went with biggest need. Didn't feel it was that big of a reach where they were. Does it excite me? No, but it was the best of a meh hand.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

My thought exactly. It’s always possible that Brevin blows up in the league — but he’s already pretty maxed out physically and his overall receiving skills/experience are probably significantly more advanced than Tremble at this point.

The latter point sounds like it’s in Jordan’s favor, but as you’re saying, it speaks to there being less projection/potential growth there. You can teach a guy to run routes and understand leverage/positioning in the passing game, in the sense that TEs need to have that mastered. But it’s awfully tough to teach explosion and to convince a guy that he genuinely enjoys plastering DEs and DBs alike in the run game. 

Let’s be honest, some Washington fans like Brevin because they’re also University of Miami fans. We have a generation of fans and even some older fans who fell so much in love with Sean Taylor, Portis & Moss in the 2000s that they really really became huge University of Miami fans and whenever there is just a good player coming out of the U they hype them up more than the player should be tbh.

I agree with you that Tremble is certainly the better prospect with more upside and he’s already a better blocker.

[turtle28]

42 minutes ago, e16bball said:

The Tremble highlight video below is just a lot of fun to watch. Isolated plays of him destroying guys. The one where he comes in and obliterates the guy trailing the shallow crosser is just crazy. 

But I think you get a better sense of what he’s about from the full games, obviously. The BC game encapsulates most of the insights about him, for me at least. He’s in the backfield a lot, and also in that sniffer role off the LOS. A lot of that is due to the kid TE Mayer (87) who I absolutely love and will be a 1st rounder in a couple years. But it’s also due to how good a blocker he is in space: he’s fast, he’s explosive, and he targets guys very well in open areas. You love how consistent he is in making his blocks on the perimeter, and his athleticism gives you options, whether it’s that wham block that Gronk is famous for or just kicking him out on the perimeter to lead the way.

I think he’s impressive getting off the LOS as a receiver, and you can see that he’s fast enough to separate on these shallow crosses and mesh plays. He also makes some nice cuts on some of these out-breaking routes.

You also see the stuff that needs work. He doesn’t really “get it” yet in terms of the passing game. More than just about any players, TEs have to be able to adjust mid-stream to what they’re seeing from the coverage. He’s not there on that. And he’s also not quite there as an in-line blocker, at least not to the extent that he performs in space. He sticks his nose in there, but it’s not a strength. 

The thing I absolutely love is the effort level. There’s a play (at about 2:20 on the BC video) where ND has the ball at their own 33 or so. Tremble is running a very shallow cross from the offense’s left side. He’s wide open but Book throws it deep to Skowronek. Tremble is probably dead center of the hashes, at about the ND 36, when Book lets the ball go. Skowronek catches it at the BC 42 or so, and then almost immediately fumbles the ball and it bounces down to just inside the BC 35. The ball is surrounded by BC players, except for one blue jersey that comes screaming in from way up the field and damn near dislodges the ball from the BC guy who had seemed for all the world as if he would have an uncontested recovery. Never stopped playing, sprinted 30+ yards in pursuit of a play that he almost certainly would have no impact on, and almost made a huge play just because he plays like his hair is on fire. To me, that’s the most Kittle-esque part of this kid. He’d be fun to root for, if nothing else.

 

Love it! I really think he has so much potential! ND really is the TE factory in college.

[ovfd55]

I just don't see Tremble as a 3rd round TE in today's game.At the moment he seems more FB the TE to me being a good blocker in space not great at point of attack and he just isn't there yet in the passing game,if he gets there he has a chance to be great just don't see him as a 3rd round pick at moment.

[A TRAIN 89]

Walker Little -- Upside as a starting LT. Has had injury issues but you don't often find the mix of size, strength and athleticism in a LT that Little has.

Matsko can certainly help a young player like Little. Could compete with Lucas, Christian and (maybe) Charles.